[the fd]

Who cares what Materazzi said to Zidane! We all know something was said. Materazzi has said so himself. We all know it was something derogative, so why do we need to know what was said?

Is it so loads of school kids can say the same in youth matches around the world? We don't need to know! I don't understand why people keep wanting to know what was said! As Materazzi said himself - go to any Sunday League match and you will hear similar choice language!

[Abbeygoo]

Spot on. I can't believe that Zidane hasn't heard something along the same lines before in his career and just ignored them - maybe it was the occasion of the final and his last ever match that made him snap not just the comments.

Materazzi's agent was on and said that it was something that could be heard on many football pitches, many times, all over the world.

Common practice to insult your mother (Americans seem to do it more than most) so why did Zizou take particularly offense this time?

Like the original post said, do we really need to know - it's over and done with, let's move on before screaming ten year olds all round the country are coming out with something similar

And if you're thinking of disagreeing with my post, your mother is a and your sister is a big fat

[the fd]

Originally Posted by Abbeygoo

And if you're thinking of disagreeing with my post, your mother is a and your sister is a big fat

Tee Hee

[dannius]

I can't help but think of Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

Your mother is a hamster and your sister smells of elderberries............

[RMCF]

Also couldn't agree more.

ZZ, one of my favourite players of all time, surely must have heard worse in his life.

For me, he's just someone with a short fuse who snapped and then tried to get the whole world on his side by crying like a 10year old.

Materazzi is being investigated now by FIFA over this nonsense. Just sums them up - idiots!! If they focused more on all the divers and cheats who are ruining the game instead of trying to make a scapegoat out of a guy who has probably been insulting forwards since he was 7 or 8, then the game would be much healthier.

Perhaps ZZ retired at the right time - he's softening up!!

[neilios]

I agree ,i can remember one particular big gob ,during a match ,calling me a gayboy, after i fell on top of him during a tackle lol,this went on for 70 minutes ,until this lad got sent off.

As he was going off i said i'd see him in the showers with the corner flag lol.

[la gran siete]

it needs to be understood that to insult someones mother or sister is considered very grave in latin countries. yer just dont do it unless you want bother

[Abbeygoo]

Originally Posted by la gran siete

it needs to be understood that to insult someones mother or sister is considered very grave in latin countries. yer just dont do it unless you want bother

Is France a latin country?

[dixiboy2]

Originally Posted by la gran siete

it needs to be understood that to insult someones mother or sister is considered very grave in latin countries. yer just dont do it unless you want bother

This makes my arse laugh.
Why is it the reserve of people who grow olives to take offence and then blow off like a ten bob rocket every time someone intimates they don't like their mothers cooking.
It's generally used where women are seen as second class citizens and young sons are encouraged to be disrespectful to their mothers and act like the man of the house in preparation for marriage. It is repressed guilt for the lack of respect shown to mothers and sisters at an early age. Discuss

[Artie Fufkin]

And let us not forget that Zidane has been no angel during his footballing career anyway...I believe he has the most red cards ever [14].

If I did what he did at work (which where he was at the end of the day) I'd lose my job and probably be nicked for some kind of assault. Why don't rules and laws ever apply to the rich and famous??? (The newcastle incident last season springs to mind).

[la gran siete]

Originally Posted by Abbeygoo

Is France a latin country?

largely yes

[la gran siete]

Originally Posted by dixiboy2

This makes my arse laugh.
Why is it the reserve of people who grow olives to take offence and then blow off like a ten bob rocket every time someone intimates they don't like their mothers cooking.
It's generally used where women are seen as second class citizens and young sons are encouraged to be disrespectful to their mothers and act like the man of the house in preparation for marriage. It is repressed guilt for the lack of respect shown to mothers and sisters at an early age. Discuss

its called cultural differences and when you brcome familiar with then you kind of respect them

[JohnG]

He should have walked away and ignored it.

[dixiboy2]

Originally Posted by JohnG

He should have walked away and ignored it.

That must be one of them there cultural differences.

[Abbeygoo]

Originally Posted by la gran siete

largely yes

largely?

[la gran siete]

Originally Posted by JohnG

He should have walked away and ignored it.

easy to make judgements but in the heat of battle its different ball game. For the latino its all about honour( although he comes from an Arabic family)and you protect the good name of your family. The Brits will never understand this concept but then they dont have such close family ties bunging, as they do, their elderly into Old Peoples homes. Materazzi words were intended to be highly provocative, he knows it which is why he went on to deny them.Personally I would never insult someones family

[JohnG]

He should have just said something similar back to him, it's obvious they were baiting him and wanted France to lose one of their main penalty takers.

[Abbeygoo]

Originally Posted by la gran siete

easy to make judgements but in the heat of battle its different ball game. For the latino its all about honour( although he comes from an Arabic family)and you protect the good name of your family. The Brits will never understand this concept but then they dont have such close family ties bunging, as they do, their elderly into Old Peoples homes. Materazzi words were intended to be highly provocative, he knows it which is why he went on to deny them.Personally I would never insult someones family

Sweeping and generalising statement number one of the day from LGS.

The Brits will never understand protecting the good name of our families eh? That'll open up some debate I'm sure - there is absolutely no foundation to this statement LGS and a broad statement such as that is way off the mark. There is no connection between where you are from (or brought up) and the extent to which you protect the name of your family.

I like the statement where you say 'for the latino' and then that Zidane is from an Arabic family. Which is it then?

Or is the same conclusion reached when looking at Zidane - the insults he must have heard a million times but in his last ever game, in the World Cup final and with his mother being quite ill - all added up to that headbutt. Doesn't matter where you're from, that combination could result in anyone losing it.

[la gran siete]

[QUOTE=Abbeygoo]Sweeping and generalising statement number one of the day from LGS.

The Brits will never understand protecting the good name of our families eh? That'll open up some debate I'm sure - there is absolutely no foundation to this statement LGS and a broad statement such as that is way off the mark. There is no connection between where you are from (or brought up) and the extent to which you protect the name of your family.

I like the statement where you say 'for the latino' and then that Zidane is from an Arabic family. Which is it then?

Or is the same conclusion reached when looking at Zidane - the insults he must have heard a million times but in his last ever game, in the World Cup final and with his mother being quite ill - all added up to that headbutt. Doesn't matter where you're from, that combination could result in anyone losing it.[/QUOT
In which case its perfectly understandable why he did lose it and we shouldnt be so quick to judge him. Bear in mind the headbutt was to the chest and not the face which shows some restraint.
i have lived in both cultures so i know a bit about what i'm talking about and even though my comments were generalisations they were based on fact. Brits are more reserved and tend to let more insults rebound off them or at least they wont show their aggrievements quite so readily. Latinos tend to react much more quickly and will make a song and dance if they feel slighted. You've only got to watch Argies react to provocations

[Abbeygoo]

Originally Posted by la gran siete

In which case its perfectly understandable why he did lose it and we shouldnt be so quick to judge him. Bear in mind the headbutt was to the chest and not the face which shows some restraint.
i have lived in both cultures so i know a bit about what i'm talking about and even though my comments were generalisations they were based on fact. Brits are more reserved and tend to let more insults rebound off them or at least they wont show their aggrievements quite so readily. Latinos tend to react much more quickly and will make a song and dance if they feel slighted. You've only got to watch Argies react to provocations

Thanks LGS, some points :

1. I haven't judged him

2. He "lost it" and then "showed restraint" by headbutting him in the chest??

3. fact, what fact? No facts at all - totally your own opinion. I accept that you have lived in both cultures making your opinion valid but it is exactly that - you have no facts at all to back up what you are saying

4. Lations make a "song and dance" yet Zidane is playing for France with an Arabic family background. I'm confused.


There is no justification for what he did and nor should there be. He made a mistake in the heat of the moment and apologised. Let's all move on.

[dixiboy2]

Originally Posted by la gran siete

easy to make judgements but in the heat of battle its different ball game. For the latino its all about honour( although he comes from an Arabic family)and you protect the good name of your family. The Brits will never understand this concept but then they dont have such close family ties bunging, as they do, their elderly into Old Peoples homes. Materazzi words were intended to be highly provocative, he knows it which is why he went on to deny them.Personally I would never insult someones family

I refer the honourable gentleman to the answer I gave earlier.
I have visited most Mediterranean countries on numerous occasions....not as a 'Brit abroad' on the lash, but as a visitor to another country who respects the traditions and cultures of my hosts. I try to speak some of their language and am not dismissive of our differences but......
you can make the crime fit the culture, as I believe is being done here
If he was so incensed at the jibe against his family and lost it completely he would have have butted his foe in the face, or punched him. I know the Italian was a bit taller but that wouldn't have mattered if so angry.
Or, he could have given him a left hook and broke his jaw.
He didn't.
He still had the control to wait until the play had moved on and everyones attention was elsewhere and butt him in the chest where no marks would be seen.
THAT to me is more pre-meditated that a blind rush of rage by someone hearing something so bad that they lash out without a second thought.
It was sneaky, coward-like and, as I said in another thread, the best bit of the WC.

[braiden]

The way I see things in this instance, is what justification was there for mettarazzi to say what he did(providing it is what has been speculated that he said)?

Now although he has freedom of speech and is free to say pretty much what he pleases, he must accept that there are possible consequences for the things he says to wind people up, especially if they involve derogatory remarks against someones familly.

The consequence of what he said was the head butt, as ugly and nasty as it was, it was a reaction to his actions or words.

Also Zidane has to now accept the consequences for his freedom of expression (the headbutt)lol.

[Jenn]

People talk about the bad example Zidane showed etc.
Being the devil's advocate: is it that defending your family's honour by reacting (ok that was a bit violent) is being bad while insulting someone's family repeatedly is fine?
I know you can't see the words on TV but while both are deserving of a send off, only the headbutt people can relate to and understand.

Also, funily enough, no one mentions Figo's headbutting for which (supposedly) he received a yellow card.

As regards to Zidanes origins, he's of Algerian decent: Algerian people simply won't allow anyone (especially men) to insult their family and women. It doesn't mean they'll all start heabutting each other but if you try you may have big trouble.
To add to it Zidane grew up in Marseille where they almost have a different culture than the rest of the country.
Finally, France pretty much is a Latin country, and people from the South of France resemble more Italians and Spanish than they do French people from the North.

All that said, Zidane should have ignored the Italian player, the ref should have sent the Italian player off for being offensive.
And the Italian player should have the b**** to come out and repeat what he said so people can decide whether he deserved the headbutt or not. Zidane certainly didn't turn round that way because the other complimented his haircut.

[the fd]

Originally Posted by Jenn

And the Italian player should have the b**** to come out and repeat what he said so people can decide whether he deserved the headbutt or not. Zidane certainly didn't turn round that way because the other complimented his haircut.

No this is my point - who cares what he said - why are some people so fixated on what he said. It was something not particularly nice, so who cares. Move on!!!!

[Jenn]

Originally Posted by the fd

No this is my point - who cares what he said - why are some people so fixated on what he said. It was something not particularly nice, so who cares. Move on!!!!

Well currently everyone's speculating and Zidane appears to be a lunatic who hit someone out of the blue. People imagining that the Italian may have said he slept with Zidane's mother and what have you, may believe that Zidane overreacted, however if what the Italian said was much more serious than that, involving some kind of racism etc, people might not be as quick to judge Zidane.
Also FIFA might think the Italian player deserves a punishement too.

[dixiboy2]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/14072006/35...r-killing.html

If this is how different cultures treat their women then I'm glad we are free of this culture as common Brits.
What a sad story about something which should have caused a row not a murder.

[the fd]

Originally Posted by Jenn

Well currently everyone's speculating and Zidane appears to be a lunatic who hit someone out of the blue. People imagining that the Italian may have said he slept with Zidane's mother and what have you, may believe that Zidane overreacted, however if what the Italian said was much more serious than that, involving some kind of racism etc, people might not be as quick to judge Zidane.
Also FIFA might think the Italian player deserves a punishement too.

Zidane could say he said one thing and Materazzi could say he said something else............who would you believe then?

If Fifa want to investigate then let them, but you, me or anyone else outwith the investigation do not need to know!

Ultimately if you really want to know then think of something really serious that may get you raging and I am sure it is along those lines.....it doesn't need to be spelt out for everyones ears!

[la gran siete]

All I will say is that Zidane was defending the honour of his family which he regards as more important than anything else It woudl seem that in this country we dont have the same sense of honour as evidenced in school playgrounds (where it all starts) and where calling someone else mother a slag seems to be quite common

[RMCF]

I still can't believe there are people defending ZZ for what he did on the pitch that night.

To try to excuse it is so stupid in my book. I realise that Materazzi was probably giving him verbal for most of the game, but I'm sure that sort of thing happens in most top level games, especially when so much is at stake. Its all about psyching your opponents out - Materazzi probably didn't mean a single word he said, but only did it to put a great player off his game. And ZZ should have heard it so often before that it shouldn't have takena wrinkle out of him. I can't believe Materazzi found a phrase that ZZ had never ever heard before during a football match. ZZ even came out and said that nothing racist was said.

I think that ZZ is only getting so much backing because of who he is, and probably because his opponent was an Italian (I have noticed a real anti-Italian element among football fans throughout the years).

I have always thought that Brian Reade in the Mirror spoke a lot of common sense when it came to football, and his column I read today just sums up my thoughts on the whole debacle perfectly. Read it if you're interested:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/readeonsport/