[gosties]

Article 55

Depending on the severity of the alleged comments by Materazzi the actual consequences could be very severe. According to Article 55 of Fifa's own racism rules. A team can actually be stripped/disqualified from the tourney that they are involved in. The logical conclusion is that if this was proved they should be stripped of the title.

Rangers earlier in the season were warned by Fifa about the sectarian chants that their fans were singing during games. They have been warned that their future conduct may result in possible point deductions, stadium being partly or fully closed or even removal from the competition they are involved in. This article I believe is supposed to cover all competitions. According to the rule a team in a final can be stripped or disqualified from the title.

Unfortunately I believe that if any Team/National side is convicted ever of this I believe that the punishment will depend on the power of the respective national association or club.

I am thinking about this after the actions of Luis Aragones, the treatment of Etoo and the actual really severe punishments that were handed out.

Finally does anyone ever think that Fifa and the governing bodies will ever take this problem seriously.

[maix27]

I think that some nations have taken the problem very seriously, I have to say I'm suprised but England is one of them. I've been watching football since I was 9 and sometimes there were a few racest remarks at games, nowaday it is a lot less likely (unless Totenham are playing) but I supose that voids my point. However I have been to the olympic stadium in Rome and the Nu Camp and both times I was shocked by the blatent racism. Spain, it appears, seems to alos get away with a lot, including their national manager.

It would be good to see it eradicated from the game and I think that things are moving forward, but you have to remember that people make a lot of money out of football and I think this is the one barrier, people are not willing to loose money for a good cause. It just doesn't happen nowadays.

[Noggin1980]

No doubt I will be burnt alive but this but I feel strongly about it so I'll say it anyway.

I think that racist comments are no worse than any other words intended to be offensive.

If you get into an argument with a Black Frenchman who weighs 400 pounds and wears glasses calling him a Black Frog is in no way worse than calling him a Fat four-eyed . The words are simply meant to be descriptive in an offensive way. You are meaning to be nasty and hurtful and offensive but you are in no way implying that you hate other french/fat/black/spectacle wearing people or that people who fit those criteria are inferior. You are being equally bad in either situation. Yet if you shout that at a football match 1 will get you thrown out and banned and the other may get you a stern glance from a steward or copper.

Stamping racist discrimination out of football is a great thing, it shouldn't matter what colour your skin is you should have exactly the same chance of playing for a team as anyone else of your talent level. That isn't what this is about though.

The same applies to other taboo forms of abuse. If someone calls me a cripple in a nasty way its no different to calling me an ugly four eyed git. If anything the later is more offensive because I know I'm a cripple but I may not consider myself ugly. Call someone a thick or a Black you may well find the former is the most offensive because its pretty obvious to the guy he is black but may not think of himself as thick. Yet again if someone shouted these to me at a football match (the cripple thing I'm not black) one would come with severe consequences and one wouldn't. That’s completely wrong imo the person is trying to be equally offensive and hurtful both ways and should be treated as such.

If anything I think the "I hope you and your family suffer a painfull death" is a worse insult than "you are son of a terrorist whore" as one is just an insult and the other is hopeing something terrible happens to someone. Yet no one cares if Matterzi said the first but if he said the second hes in all sorts of trouble.

[lostinspace]

So the test of FIFA's commitment to stamping out racism is...will they take the cup and title of world champions from Italy? If they do, it would stop overnight.
But everyone knows that will never happen. Business runs football, not sportsminded people.

[JagoPlasma]

Originally Posted by lostinspace

So the test of FIFA's commitment to stamping out racism is...will they take the cup and title of world champions from Italy? If they do, it would stop overnight.
But everyone knows that will never happen. Business runs football, not sportsminded people.

would it? or would you get ronaldo in the next World/Euro cup accusing the other players of being racist when his dive fails to get him a FK or penalty?

[lostinspace]

Originally Posted by JagoPlasma

would it? or would you get ronaldo in the next World/Euro cup accusing the other players of being racist when his dive fails to get him a FK or penalty?

I like to think so.
Take away the reward, and you take away the incentive.

[Kazuya Mishima]

Originally Posted by Noggin1980

No doubt I will be burnt alive but this but I feel strongly about it so I'll say it anyway.

I think that racist comments are no worse than any other words intended to be offensive.

I agree, good post.

[Jonesthegas]

Originally Posted by Noggin1980

No doubt I will be burnt alive but this but I feel strongly about it so I'll say it anyway.

I think that racist comments are no worse than any other words intended to be offensive.

If you get into an argument with a Black Frenchman who weighs 400 pounds and wears glasses calling him a Black Frog is in no way worse than calling him a Fat four-eyed . The words are simply meant to be descriptive in an offensive way. You are meaning to be nasty and hurtful and offensive but you are in no way implying that you hate other french/fat/black/spectacle wearing people or that people who fit those criteria are inferior. You are being equally bad in either situation. Yet if you shout that at a football match 1 will get you thrown out and banned and the other may get you a stern glance from a steward or copper.

Stamping racist discrimination out of football is a great thing, it shouldn't matter what colour your skin is you should have exactly the same chance of playing for a team as anyone else of your talent level. That isn't what this is about though.

The same applies to other taboo forms of abuse. If someone calls me a cripple in a nasty way its no different to calling me an ugly four eyed git. If anything the later is more offensive because I know I'm a cripple but I may not consider myself ugly. Call someone a thick or a Black you may well find the former is the most offensive because its pretty obvious to the guy he is black but may not think of himself as thick. Yet again if someone shouted these to me at a football match (the cripple thing I'm not black) one would come with severe consequences and one wouldn't. That’s completely wrong imo the person is trying to be equally offensive and hurtful both ways and should be treated as such.

If anything I think the "I hope you and your family suffer a painfull death" is a worse insult than "you are son of a terrorist whore" as one is just an insult and the other is hopeing something terrible happens to someone. Yet no one cares if Matterzi said the first but if he said the second hes in all sorts of trouble.

While I agree with almost all of what you said, I think there is one distiction with regards to race and other insults.

Communities do separate themselves still along the lines of race. We have asian communities, Chinese communities and areas mainly of caucasians. Racism has the potential to separate one community from another.

Fat people do not usually form separate communities from slim communities, ugly from pretty. So calling someone an ugly git insults them as an individual but calling someone a black git is taken as an insult to the whole community and is therefore more dangerous.

Martin

[raigraphixs]

Isnt the whole point of racism that colour should not be used as a device if you hate someone, thats what footbal and society is trying to stop.

Calling some one a **** cripple is still offensive. But calling someone a black **** cripple is just racism. Why add the word black. Football is trying to stop fans seeing colour as a targeting point. Just call someone a **** git instead. Dont hate them for their colour.

[gosties]

I am from Scotland and the sectarian (Catholics & Protestants) issue is far more prevalent than the racist one. I have an uncle who lives in Glasgow who cannot wear any items of clothing that are blue or green coloured.

Either colour means that he gets hassled from the bigots who live in the surrounding areas where he lives. It is that ridiculous that he has had to discolour trainers that have had either colour in them. Unfortunately it seems to be prevalent in the west of Scotland.

This bigotry is carried into both major glasgow clubs and some of the songs they are singing are absolutely disgusting. Both major clubs are supposedly trying to eradicate the problem, but I believe that this is nothing more than lip service.

I believe that in Glasgow especially that all you can do is try and educate the youngest generations that bigotry should not be tolerated. I feel that the battle with the older generations is already lost. These sectarian/religous chants are racist in their nature. I just hope that Fifa has the necessary strength to ensure that both major clubs, solve this problem in their grounds once and for all.

I also know of the fascist elements of the ultra's in Italy and they need to be stamped out also once and for all.

[Noggin1980]

Originally Posted by raigraphixs

Isnt the whole point of racism that colour should not be used as a device if you hate someone, thats what footbal and society is trying to stop.

Calling some one a **** cripple is still offensive. But calling someone a black **** cripple is just racism. Why add the word black. Football is trying to stop fans seeing colour as a targeting point. Just call someone a **** git instead. Dont hate them for their colour.

My point is you aren’t hating them for their colour.

Its not racism, its descriptive, if a black guy is walking down the street doing no one any harm and someone calls him a Black *Censored* then that is most probably racism, there was simply no reason to pick on this person unless you dislike them because of how they look which is most likely to be about colour. He is being discriminated against because of his colour, this is wrong, this is racism.

If you are in an argument or at a football match you are probably shouting an insult because the person is on the other side or because you have fallen out in an argument. Then really you are simply trying to be offensive and are using a feature that makes them obvious be that height/weight/glasses/nose or ear size/skin colour/disability/age and then you normally stick a word like prat/git/bastard or a swearing one on the end.

You are not being racist, racism is discriminating against someone or hating someone for their race which of course is totally wrong, you aren’t doing that here at all. you are simply describing them while insulting them and skin colour is a very obvious descriptor. My point is using a colour as a descriptor while being offensive is in no way any worse at all than using any other descriptor while being offensive. The fact that you are being offensive is wrong of course but calling someone a black *Censored* in an argument should not get you thrown out of a football stadium if calling someone a fat *censored* wouldn't.

Whatever the Italian said to Zidane he wasn't being racist, he was being deliberately offensive in order to wind up Zidane.