[gosties]

The last two major tournaments have been won by two workman like sides. After watching that game last night I thought Italy were no more than a more technically adept Greece. At the moment defensive organisation seems to be stifling and killing football.

Their seems to be a lack of entertainment on show. The likes of Chelsea play the same sort of game and it is terrible to watch. Am I alone in believing that teams have an obligation to entertain.

I understand that if you are fan of the team involved that you say that the end justifies the means. But I think that football is danger of losing the fan's interest and that is very dangerous. Some games that are on tele I switch off after 15 mins because it is like watching paint dry.

I just hope that more teams take a leaf out of the freeflowing passing games of the likes of Barca,
Arsenal.

Furtherly, I also think that something has to be done about diving as it becoming endemic in the game, the likes of Portugal are hammered for it, but every team is at it. I would give retrospective red cards for dives, if no contact is proved.

[sbowler]

Couldnt agree more, the games now are less than exciting. And I think that France played the better game last night. And deserved to win.

[Istanbul_Kop]

If you're 'falling out of love with football' - you were never truly in love with football in the first place.

Football is for life.

[gosties]

I have been enjoying football for about 20 years but have over the last few years have noticed that teams are becoming more negative. I am probably what would be termed a purist but just want to see games where both teams want to attack.

I can remember the Milan teams of the early 90's who were fantastic to watch. I utterly detest Man Utd but they do play attractive football. Maybe I am naive but still belive that teams have to entertain. A lot teams just place the emphasis on not conceding goals which does not make for much of a spectacle.

I am not that old and never envisaged that I would say that the game was better to watch years ago.

[JohnG]

Originally Posted by Istanbul_Kop

If you're 'falling out of love with football' - you were never truly in love with football in the first place.

Football is for life.

I have to disagree with that. I've been watching and loving football for years and have been to away matches in this country and abroad but I am getting fed up with football as well. I was wondering if it's to do with my age (45) and having been through the era when you could afford to go to loads of matches (I use to watch Forest and Mansfield Town in those days) and it was a proper game with proper tackles and real men playing it
There is far too much live football on the telly these days, I ended up only half watching the World Cup Final yesterday as I found it boring

[TeeDoubleUDee]

Originally Posted by gosties

I am not that old and never envisaged that I would say that the game was better to watch years ago.

I agree - I AM that old and remember when there was such a thing as sportsmanship, the balls were very heavy leather which nearly concussed you if you headed it but then men WERE men

[overkill]

Originally Posted by JohnG

I have to disagree with that. I've been watching and loving football for years and have been to away matches in this country and abroad but I am getting fed up with football as well. I was wondering if it's to do with my age (45) and having been through the era when you could afford to go to loads of matches (I use to watch Forest and Mansfield Town in those days) and it was a proper game with proper tackles and real men playing it
There is far too much live football on the telly these days, I ended up only half watching the World Cup Final yesterday as I found it boring

Quite agree John. The standard of football, as recent World cups have shown, is falling everywhere and spin seems to be increasingly used to 'fill in' for lack of ability. I enjoy less and less of what I watch in top flight (English football) and in the division you and I are regularly going to watch games in, the level of performance shocked me when compared to twenty years ago. It's dire.

The 'beautiful game' is a myth now, and with the triumph of cynicism over skill in this World cup, as shown by Portugals semi-final appearance and Italy winning the thing, things will only get worse.

I mourn for the game I used to love.

[Miyazaki]

Surely the fact that "workman" like football is doing the buisness suggests that England should have hired Allardyce?

[Kevo]

It's 'imploding' and will eventually go the same way as pop music, TV and films.....markmewurdz

[RMCF]

Originally Posted by gosties

Their seems to be a lack of entertainment on show. The likes of Chelsea play the same sort of game and it is terrible to watch. Am I alone in believing that teams have an obligation to entertain.

I understand that if you are fan of the team involved that you say that the end justifies the means.

Couldn't agree more about football dying.

But I think the days of coaches feeling obliged to entertain the fans is long gone. The results are the most important thing now, not how you get them.

I am a Real Madrid fan and they have always had a tradition of wanting entertaining football. Thats one of the things that attracted me to them in the early 80s. Indeed I remember them getting booed off at home in the late 80s after winning 3-0, but the fans didn't enjoy the performance!! But I can see the day when even Madrid fans will settle for results over entertainment.

On your second point, and this brings me back to the WC, is England. Their performances were woeful yet anybody that tried to criticise them were slated for not supporting 'the boys' or their country. Numerous posts would say, 'we are in the next round - thats all that matters'. If this is all that matters to the modern fan then God help the future of football.

I agree with Istanbul_Kop - I am a football fan and will always like it. The game needs to have a total change of direction but I just feel that it is not possible - its gone too far. We need to go to a game where only the captain and offending player can chat to the ref about fouls, where players don't need to appeal for EVERY throw-in because they know who's throw-in it actually is, where managers play more than 1 up front, where keeping a clean sheet isn't all-important, where players only fall over if they can't stand up any more, where players accept the refs decisions, where fans get a decent ticket allocation, where Sky admit that most of the EPL games are crap, where players stop flashing imaginery cards etc.

But this will never happen.

Football started to implode when the salaries went crazy. Before that it was a game played, in most cases, by honest hard-working players. But when the stakes get higher cheating becomes inevitable.

And someday football will go belly up. And it will only be the 'real' football fans that are turning up to watch the games, not the Sky generation who will have moved on to some other fad.

[chaddy]

i will always watch football but being only 23 i wasn't around for the good hard tackling days where people if they hit the ground they didn't usually get back up.
My earliest memory of watching football was the start of the prem league.
This seem to be the end of the good old days as more foreigners started to join English clubs.
Now the game has turned into basketball but with feet.
Its turned into a non contact sport full of over payed Nancy's.
All you have to look at is the people like Alan Smith, Cisse and owen in the world cup.
When they are hurt they have pain on the faces but there is no rolling about all it is get medics on quickly to sort it out.
but a tap on the ankle takes 5mins to sort out.

[JohnG]

Chaddy - let's see how you feel about the game in another 22 years when you will be 45 the same as I am now, I bet you'll be moaning about it just like I am and not watching many matches

[Ian J]

My interest in footie started to declined when the game was acquired by Sky and it became big business rather than sport.

I liked the days when football was played in the winter and cricket in the summer with all games played on Saturday bar the odd midweek cup game.

I try and see my team play a couple of times a season when they are in the Midlands but rarely bother with televised games any more.

[lostinspace]

Originally Posted by Ian J

My interest in footie started to declined when the game was acquired by Sky and it became big business rather than sport.

I liked the days when football was played in the winter and cricket in the summer with all games played on Saturday bar the odd midweek cup game.

I try and see my team play a couple of times a season when they are in the Midlands but rarely bother with televised games any more.

I agree, Sky has a lot to answer for. When everyone played on saturday's, going to a match was a real occasion. I well remember the boards that were put up around the ground telling you the half time scores in other matches- old buzzard that I am!
Now, because the leagues took the most money they could, matches have to be played throughout the week, and there are no big match days anymore.

The overpaid cheats we have for players these days will bancrupt football, and the only ones who can see it are football fans, not the blind, tribal followers of individual teams.

When Cantona wasn't thrown out of football, players realised they had ALL the power and can do whatever they want, and now they'll never be put back in Pandora's box. Their contracts are worthless as they just walk away when it suits them.

Agents are the scum of the earth- name one with football anywhere in his list of priorities. A footballer's best interests are always measured in how much money he can get.

Football is a sport- at least it's supposed to be. Sky has ensured that money is now the only measure of success in a player's career.

Once sky finds a better way of getting dishes on people's walls, they'll dramatically reduce the money for football, and football will be in financial crisis (f it isn't already).

Football is corrupt. Corrupt businesses go bust. And I can't wait for the day.

[SickStu]

I can't believe it but I think I agree. There was only one game worth watching in this World Cup, the Germany v Italy semi-final. Even that was blighted by the cheating that is practised by all players and will kill the game unless it's stamped out (retrospective punishment with video evidence required).
English football is dead ( Chelsea will win the league every year at a canter until Abramovitch gets bored or is in jail ) and the national team will get weaker & weaker as the number of English players at the top level declines.
Still, at least I'll save £35.06 a month when I cancel Sky (I'll miss the golf though).

[Kevo]

A mate of mine who is a prem season ticket holder admits it's not much fun anymore and good entertaining games are far and few and just goes 'out of habit' and his missus enjoys it more than him!

That's a £500 a year 'habit' (each)!

[overkill]

Originally Posted by lostinspace

I agree, Sky has a lot to answer for. When everyone played on saturday's, going to a match was a real occasion. I well remember the boards that were put up around the ground telling you the half time scores in other matches- old buzzard that I am!
Now, because the leagues took the most money they could, matches have to be played throughout the week, and there are no big match days anymore.

The overpaid cheats we have for players these days will bancrupt football, and the only ones who can see it are football fans, not the blind, tribal followers of individual teams.

When Cantona wasn't thrown out of football, players realised they had ALL the power and can do whatever they want, and now they'll never be put back in Pandora's box. Their contracts are worthless as they just walk away when it suits them.

Agents are the scum of the earth- name one with football anywhere in his list of priorities. A footballer's best interests are always measured in how much money he can get.

Football is a sport- at least it's supposed to be. Sky has ensured that money is now the only measure of success in a player's career.

Once sky finds a better way of getting dishes on people's walls, they'll dramatically reduce the money for football, and football will be in financial crisis (f it isn't already).

Football is corrupt. Corrupt businesses go bust. And I can't wait for the day.

Some good points here.

I would tend to agree with you an IanJ that the Sky/Prem deal is what finally killed football as spectator sport. However, we should not let the clubs off the hook, or the FA. The clubs walked out on the FL to grab the lions share of the cash, even though football at the time was on the up anyway, and the FA blindly allowed the English G14 (although they weren't then) clubs to fool then into thinking it was 'all for Englands national team'. I mean how could anyone be so stupid? Did the FA really believe that would happen, and as we now know things are even worse with regards co-operation with the national team, than before 93'.

The FA are guilty of allowing their public schoolboy pettiness (they always resented the FL grabbing control of the major clubs interest with the original FL) to blind them to what the big clubs and Sky were really up too.

Now, as people here have said, it's too late.

[Mighty Chipster]

Originally Posted by overkill

Some good points here.

I would tend to agree with you an IanJ that the Sky/Prem deal is what finally killed football as spectator sport. However, we should not let the clubs off the hook, or the FA. The clubs walked out on the FL to grab the lions share of the cash, even though football at the time was on the up anyway, and the FA blindly allowed the English G14 (although they weren't then) clubs to fool then into thinking it was 'all for Englands national team'. I mean how could anyone be so stupid? Did the FA really believe that would happen, and as we now know things are even worse with regards co-operation with the national team, than before 93'.

The FA are guilty of allowing their public schoolboy pettiness (they always resented the FL grabbing control of the major clubs interest with the original FL) to blind them to what the big clubs and Sky were really up too.

Now, as people here have said, it's too late.

Totally agree with all posts so far, I too believe that football is going on a downward spiral and the consumer (us) are starting to get bored of all the hype now.

But, on the other hand what Sky has done for other sports, Rubgy Union and League, as an example has been exceptional. Totally transforming what was a minority and amateur sports into a highly prized asset.

For anyone who is bored of football and the values it now represents I challenge you to tune into Sky's coverage of Rugby League (usually 8pm Fridays and 6pm'ish on Saturdays). Watch a few games and I would hope you will enjoy it as much as I do! The commentators actually talk sense rather that the normal footie . (well most of the time .... Stevo!)

[JohnG]

I realised a few weeks ago how boring football is when you haven't had a drink beforehand

[overkill]

Originally Posted by Mighty Chipster

Totally agree with all posts so far, I too believe that football is going on a downward spiral and the consumer (us) are starting to get bored of all the hype now.

But, on the other hand what Sky has done for other sports, Rubgy Union and League, as an example has been exceptional. Totally transforming what was a minority and amateur sports into a highly prized asset.

For anyone who is bored of football and the values it now represents I challenge you to tune into Sky's coverage of Rugby League (usually 8pm Fridays and 6pm'ish on Saturdays). Watch a few games and I would hope you will enjoy it as much as I do! The commentators actually talk sense rather that the normal footie . (well most of the time .... Stevo!)

Tbh Chipster I can't stand what Sky has done to RL. Tacky american names, crap times for games, fiddling about with clubs to suit a 'national audience' rather than promotion and relegation based on ability. Sorry, it smacks of gimmickery to much. The gates remain in static too. Compared to the games heyday nothing much has changed. The big clubs aren't pulling in 20,000 plus as they could 40 years ago, so what has Sky done - long term? It's still a minorty sport and will remain so.

As for RU, it's hardly been 'plain sailing' has it? Strike after strike, threats over contracts, clubs going into financial chaos........... and all this compared to a stable system that had worked for over eighty years!

Just because something glitters doesn't mean that Murdoch has turned it into Gold.

As football fans are finding out.................

[overkill]

Originally Posted by JohnG

I realised a few weeks ago how boring football is when you haven't had a drink beforehand

Blimey you too John! I found I couldn't watch England unless I'd had a few beers! Otherwise I got too bored or too stressed!

[Mighty Chipster]

Originally Posted by overkill

Tbh Chipster I can't stand what Sky has done to RL. Tacky american names, crap times for games, fiddling about with clubs to suit a 'national audience' rather than promotion and relegation based on ability. Sorry, it smacks of gimmickery to much. The gates remain in static too. Compared to the games heyday nothing much has changed. The big clubs aren't pulling in 20,000 plus as they could 40 years ago, so what has Sky done - long term? It's still a minorty sport and will remain so.

As for RU, it's hardly been 'plain sailing' has it? Strike after strike, threats over contracts, clubs going into financial chaos........... and all this compared to a stable system that had worked for over eighty years!

Just because something glitters doesn't mean that Murdoch has turned it into Gold.

As football fans are finding out.................

Maybe your right ..... but I also enjoy the "ethics" that the Rugby players adopt. None of the namby pamby stuff you see on (and off) the football pitch!

[overkill]

Originally Posted by Mighty Chipster

Maybe your right ..... but I also enjoy the "ethics" that the Rugby players adopt. None of the namby pamby stuff you see on (and off) the football pitch!

Now that, I cannot argue with!

[RMCF]

Originally Posted by overkill

Now that, I cannot argue with!

Also agree.

This is probably one of the main things that is ruining football. Allowing players to show no respect and continually harrass the referee with nearly EVERY decision he makes, which are made so much harder by the constant diving and cheating.

But I blame FIFA for this. It is such an easy problem to fix that would help the game so much. If FIFA employed the simple rule all over the world from August that only the player involved and the captain are allowed to 'discuss' an incident then we could cut out all the nonsense. Any other player getting involved would be an automatic yellow card. Now I realise that most footballers are a bit dense, but after a few yellows they'll soon learn not to approach the ref.

If the refs were told to allow a bit of physical contact as well it would help greatly. Take the Italy v Germany semi as the perfect example. In the 1st 10 or 15mins players were diving about, but the ref awarded very little fouls. The players, as dense as they are, soon learned that there was no point in diving any more and started to play the game properly. And what a good game we got as a result.

I do admire rugby for the respect shown to the officials. I am sure that a lot of underhand stuff goes on in rugby, but football has allowed the cheats to do as they please and the cancer is spreading - it needs to be nipped in the bud now before football becomes unwatchable.

[la gran siete]

I agree wioth most of the sentiments expressed here. Can i suggest turning your attentions to rugby a sport played by real men!

there is even a dedicated website:
www.planetrugby.com
with its own chat forum

http://forum.planet-rugby.com/index....4dc75447081ee9

[overkill]

Originally Posted by SOK

Also agree.

This is probably one of the main things that is ruining football. Allowing players to show no respect and continually harrass the referee with nearly EVERY decision he makes, which are made so much harder by the constant diving and cheating.

But I blame FIFA for this. It is such an easy problem to fix that would help the game so much. If FIFA employed the simple rule all over the world from August that only the player involved and the captain are allowed to 'discuss' an incident then we could cut out all the nonsense. Any other player getting involved would be an automatic yellow card. Now I realise that most footballers are a bit dense, but after a few yellows they'll soon learn not to approach the ref.

If the refs were told to allow a bit of physical contact as well it would help greatly. Take the Italy v Germany semi as the perfect example. In the 1st 10 or 15mins players were diving about, but the ref awarded very little fouls. The players, as dense as they are, soon learned that there was no point in diving any more and started to play the game properly. And what a good game we got as a result.

I do admire rugby for the respect shown to the officials. I am sure that a lot of underhand stuff goes on in rugby, but football has allowed the cheats to do as they please and the cancer is spreading - it needs to be nipped in the bud now before football becomes unwatchable.

Not so sure here SOK. If you look at even 'old' games the Ref could be surrounded by four, five or even six players if it was a key moment in a game. Like Englands 3rd goal in 66' for example.

What the difference now is, that players back then knew where the line was drawn, and manhandling the ref, which is so common today, only rarely happened, and if you did it was a straight sending off. Nowadays they push the ref about, harrass him verbally and attempt to get other players sent off. I agree totally with you though, that there is a shocking lack of respect for the match officals in football today, totally unlike Rugby - in either code. But the morons we now call footballers are totally contemptuous of everyone so why should refs be any different?

As for the physical contact thing, well, you know my views on that, but I can't see Captain Corruption, sorry Sepp Blatter, agreeing with us. At least not in this lifetime.........

It would be so easy to save the game from itself. But sadly FIFA just can't (or won't, as the 'moneybags' players have the whip hand these days) see it.

[dixiboy2]

Diving
cheating
no gamesmanship
harranguing the ref.
too much emphasis on single players
Agents
Too many foreign imports (in all countries)
Poxy feather light footballs
Linesmen being called ref.'s assistants
Corporate tickets going to non-fans
Sepp Blatter directives
Media pressure
The way lower division are cast aside
Bosman ruling
Too much player power
Women making out they know what they are talking about
It's just a short list of things I think have contributed to changing the game I have loved and played since my memory can recall.
I could mention other things like wages, which is a bit hypocritical as I wouldn't turn it down......or all-seater stadia which has ruined atmospheres in grounds, but the safety aspect always takes precident, which I have to accept.
I think most of all it is the attitude of the prima-dona players that is ruining it for me. The diving, feigning injury, and trying to get others sent off really saddens me.
It gets in the way of proper football.
I have Sky Sports and try to watch the live games when I can, but when I do I am quickly bored and wander off.
Teams are so scared of losing and have so little grit and determination to come back from a goal down that many of them just shut up shop.
It is terrible for the watching, paying public.
No wonder the Yanks treat it as a game for females......compared to their version of Football, as well as our rugby, the way these jessies roll about I'm not surprised.
Johm G. talks about he quality of the lower divisions being poor. It is, and I think the players, on the whole, in the bottom two divisions would be playing amateur football at best 20 years ago.
It is a sport taken so far from it's roots that it cannot grow anymore, and in ten years time it will wilt back to the early 20th Century. Our grandkids will wonder what we are talking about when we mention the great games and players.
I don't know what the answer is, there's probably more than one, but there are certainly many questions to be asked over the next few years.
If Sky get out the watch out because they are the sole reason we have such a popular league. I'd rather they pull out now, get rid of the prima donas to Spain and Italy where they belong and let us start again.
I don't believe we will ever win the WC again in my lifetime,which is sad because I was only 4 months old when we won it the first time.

If you have bothered to read this far I apologise for the rant. I do care about this so much, and like many men, I treat football as a big part of my life, It can give pleasure and endless conversation, even with total strangers, it gets a hold of you.
Zidane was a prat, but put it another way; what he did was open, honest and from his heart, and it was one of the first real fouls and non-diving victim of the whole tournament. The perfect Full-stop to the biggest bag of crap I've ever seen (excet USA '94)
The only person to profit from me not watching footy is my darling wife who can't abide it anyway.

[Mighty Chipster]

A few rules I would like to see adopted into football:

1. Yellow card = 10 mins in the sin bin
2. Two yellows or straight red = early bath
3. 3 points awarded to team for a straight win
4. 2 points awarded to both teams for score draw
5. 1 point awarded to both teams for non-score draw.
6. Intoduce a "on report" ruling for discipline / unsportsmanship like incidents either seen or not seen during the match that requires further investigation / clarification.
7. FA committee to invesitgate incidents during games or "on report" issues.
8. Professional referees.
9. Bring back the 10 metre rule i.e. if decision is contested move the free kick 10 metres forward. (if by moving the spot kick forward 10 metres gives the attacking team no advantage then captain can place ball where original foul took place).

That's all I can think of (this early in the morning).

Any more?

[lostinspace]

Any more?[/QUOTE]

1. All players offside (if offside) whether interfering with play or not. On field=interfering with play.
2. Shielding ball from opponent to let it run out of play is obstruction, and should be penalised as such.
3. Player fouled takes penalty/free kick. If handball, last player to touch ball takes free kick.
4. 2 red cards per season=miss full season of games (38 at the moment in the premiership).
5. 1 point lost for every yellow card, 5 points lost for every red card.
6. 1 point per goal scored- no more pointless games at end of season.
7. 6 up 6 down each season.
8. Scrap playoffs- it's a league not a knockout tournament.
9. Drug test for every player every game, failure or non attendance= life ban.
10. All teams to trade in the black. ie No team can rely on cash injections from an Abramovich- type figure. They can only spend what they take in. If a benefactor wants to give a team a new player, he can, but his wages must come from normal income.
11. No player can ever play against a team he has previously played for- let's get some loyalty in here!
That's all for now.

[JohnG]

Teams who have won the European Cup previously to have a 10 point start at the begining of every season It's the only way I can see Forest getting back into the top flight again