[RMCF]

When an English player does it.

I can't believe what I just heard from the BBC commentary team/half-time analysts.

Not once did they say, 'Gerrard dived'.

Now some might agree with Ian Wright's idea that others are doing it so we may as well. Thats OK with me, as long as the media then stop going on about how much foreigners dive and how honest the English footballer is.

I thought that Ian Wright would have been challenged by somebody for his comments, but alas. Hansen's only comment was that the Hungarian defender had made 'a bad tackle'. Yeah but he didn't make any contact Alan, so Gerrard CHEATED !!! Tell it like it is.

A cheat is a cheat, even if he's one of your own.

[MonkeyKnuckle]

I agree, Gerrard dived twice in the box and Cole dived, cheats!

[overkill]

Originally Posted by SOK

When an English player does it.

I can't believe what I just heard from the BBC commentary team/half-time analysts.

Not once did they say, 'Gerrard dived'.

Now some might agree with Ian Wright's idea that others are doing it so we may as well. Thats OK with me, as long as the media then stop going on about how much foreigners dive and how honest the English footballer is.

I thought that Ian Wright would have been challenged by somebody for his comments, but alas. Hansen's only comment was that the Hungarian defender had made 'a bad tackle'. Yeah but he didn't make any contact Alan, so Gerrard CHEATED !!! Tell it like it is.

A cheat is a cheat, even if hees one of your own.

Phew! I'm glad it wasn't just me then! I was horrified by the disgusting comments made at half time! So cheating is justified on the grounds it might happen to you! NOT!

It was blatant dive, and a poor decision. As you say if we want to cry 'foul' about 'cheating foreigners' then we need to be squeeky clean ourselves. If not then shut up about it!

[FruitBat]

Yes, I was a bit disappointed as well.
Don't our players have enough faith in their own abilities to stay on their feet and play the ball?

[dixiboy2]

Remember their first opponents are South American. They need some practice

[RoNaLdiNhO]

Agree with the posts above i really could not belive it when half time came and they started to come out with that crap. Lets be honest though no one really mentioned it when Stevie G dived in the champsion league final last year to get a pen. Or when Owen did agaist argentina in worldcup 02/04 to get pens.

Rooney agaist arsenal comes to mind to when campbell does not touch him and he dived at old trafford to get a pen last year also.

[ash]

LOL English players are divers just like Argentina
Gerrard did make it look really good though.

[dc007]

Ian Wrights comments were a disgrace. If ever the Beeb were looking for a reason to remove him without being accused of racial bias, now is the chance.

[po_man]

Originally Posted by dc007

Ian Wrights comments were a disgrace. If ever the Beeb were looking for a reason to remove him without being accused of racial bias, now is the chance.

I saw the dives but i didn't hear what Ian Wright said. Can someone quote what he said?

[Crocodile]

Originally Posted by po_man

I saw the dives but i didn't hear what Ian Wright said. Can someone quote what he said?

IIRC, the phrase he used was "good play" & Overkill has para-phrased the justification. In fairness to Wright though if he were to condemn cheating he'd have to find another club to support.

As I'm a simplistic soul I'd really like to see this & other forms of blatant cheating stopped. How? - quite easy. The referee asks the player in question if he was brought down, handled the ball, exaggerated injury, etc. & the players word is accepted as fact. The video of the game is then reviewed by a panel of referees & any player found to have gained an advantage by cheating automatically receives a 10 game ban.

[DJT75]

Am I not right in saying that you don't have to make contact for a penalty to be awarded? I'm pretty sure it's all down to intent, that was a 2 footed challenge & Gerrard could've been seen as getting out of the way. To me it's a penalty anyway & the guy was lucky not to see red.

The panel's comments were poor & didn't look at the situation correctly at all, however - Wright is right in what he said, he just shouldn't say it on live TV.

[RoNaLdiNhO]

^ he pulled out the challege thats why it was not red or even a yellow just a pen for the diving scouser.

[DJT75]

How can you "pull out of a challenge" with both feet in the air unless your Superman or David Copperfield??

Direct free kick

A direct free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following six offences in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:

kicks or attempts to kick an opponent
trips or attempts to trip an opponent
jumps at an opponent
charges an opponent
strikes or attempts to strike an opponent
pushes an opponent
A direct free kick is also awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following four offences:

tackles an opponent to gain possession of the ball, making contact with the opponent before touching the ball
holds an opponent
spits at an opponent
handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within his own penalty area)
A direct free kick is taken from where the offence occurred.


Penalty kick

A penalty kick is awarded if any of the above ten offences is committed by a player inside his own penalty area, irrespective of the position of the ball, provided it is in play.


Indirect free kick

An indirect free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a goalkeeper, inside his own penalty area, commits any of the following five offences:

takes more than six seconds while controlling the ball with his hands before releasing it from his possession
touches the ball again with his hands after it has been released from his possession and has not touched any other player
touches the ball with his hands after it has been deliberately been kicked to him by a team-mate
touches the ball with his hands after he has received it directly from a throw-in taken by a team-mate

An indirect free kick is also awarded to the opposing team if a player, in the opinion of the referee:

plays in a dangerous manner
impedes the progress of an opponent
prevents the goalkeeper from releasing the ball from his hands
commits any other offence, not previously mentioned in Law 12, for which play is stopped to caution or dismiss a player

The indirect free kick is taken from where the offence occurred.


Disciplinary sanctions

Only a player or substitute or substituted player may be shown the red or yellow card.

The Referee has the authority to take disciplinary sanctions, as from the moment he enters the field of play until he leaves the field of play after the final whistle.


Cautionable offences

A player is cautioned and shown the yellow card if he commits any of the following seven offences:

is guilty of unsporting behaviour
shows dissent by word or action
persistently infringes the Laws of the Game
delays the restart of play
fails to respect the required distance when play is restarted with a corner kick or free kick
enters or re-enters the field of play without the referee’s permission
deliberately leaves the field of play without the referee’s permission

Sending-off offences

A player is sent off and shown the red card if he commits any of the following seven offences:

is guilty of serious foul play
is guilty of violent conduct
spits at an opponent or any other person
denies the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by deliberately handling the ball (this does not apply to a goalkeeper within his own penalty area)
denies an obvious goal-scoring opportunity to an opponent moving towards the player’s goal by an offence punishable by a free kick or a penalty kick
uses offensive or insulting or abusive language and/or gestures
receives a second caution in the same match

Reading the above laws of the game I'd would say the pen was spot on - could be any of "kicks or attempts to kick an opponent, trips or attempts to trip an opponent, jumps at an opponent, charges an opponent, strikes or attempts to strike an opponent".

& the red should've been shown "denies an obvious goal-scoring opportunity to an opponent moving towards the player’s goal by an offence punishable by a free kick or a penalty kick"

[RoNaLdiNhO]

Butcher condemns Gerrard for dive

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/foot...nd/5033004.stm

[DJT75]

Originally Posted by RoNaLdiNhO

Butcher condemns Gerrard for dive

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/foot...nd/5033004.stm

He doesn't know the laws then

[neilios]

I agree DJT75 ,it was a penalty ,the offending player commited numerous offences as written down in the fifa rulebook .

This diving business though ,i think its about time we started doing what everyone else's has for the past 15 yrs ,other teams play to win at all costs ,and so should we .

[overkill]

Originally Posted by DJT75

He doesn't know the laws then

He does as there was no 'attempt to kick the player'. There was no contact, no attempt to make contact, it was a dive pure and simple - and a blatant one at that.

It worries me that people once again are quick to defend an England player when we know darn well if the boot had been on the other foot we'd all be screaming blue murder.

Hypocracy? Yup.

[RMCF]

Originally Posted by RoNaLdiNhO

Agree with the posts above i really could not belive it when half time came and they started to come out with that crap. Lets be honest though no one really mentioned it when Stevie G dived in the champsion league final last year to get a pen. Or when Owen did agaist argentina in worldcup 02/04 to get pens.

Rooney agaist arsenal comes to mind to when campbell does not touch him and he dived at old trafford to get a pen last year also.

This is my point. English players have been diving for ages but the media seem blind to it.

The annoying bit for me is that their inability to use the word 'dive' when it comes to a top English 'star'.

Last night for example, I listened to the Beeb, read their website, and also soccernet, and not a single one used the word 'dive' in their talk about Gerrards penalty. Saying things like 'he wasn't really touched' to 'Gerrard was clever there' condone cheating in my opinion.

And DJT75, are you honestly saying you thought that was a clear penalty last night? I find that baffling. It just shows how we all have differing opinions of the rules of the game. You might have seen a penalty, I just saw a top player cheating and setting an awful example to all the youngsters who have his name on the backs of their kits.

[Strobe]

I must admit when I saw the incident live on tele my immediate reaction was penalty. However the replay did not show any obvious contact but the intent was there. Steven Gerrard is not usually a diver, not that I would consider anyway. Now Owen, yes a definite diver! Or should that be 'winner of penalties'!!

As for football pundits, Wrighty is definitely the worse. I'm sure the Beeb keep him just for the comedy value.

[overkill]

Originally Posted by SOK

This is my point. English players have been diving for ages but the media seem blind to it.

The annoying bit for me is that their inability to use the word 'dive' when it comes to a top English 'star'.

Last night for example, I listened to the Beeb, read their website, and also soccernet, and not a single one used the word 'dive' in their talk about Gerrards penalty. Saying things like 'he wasn't really touched' to 'Gerrard was clever there' condone cheating in my opinion.

And DJT75, are you honestly saying you thought that was a clear penalty last night? I find that baffling. It just shows how we all have differing opinions of the rules of the game. You might have seen a penalty, I just saw a top player cheating and setting an awful example to all the youngsters who have his name on the backs of their kits.

Agree 100%. I noticed there was no mention of the word 'dive' anywhere. It makes you laugh when they go on and on about Maradona but forget the numerous dubious incidents involving England before and since. Wright himself fisting the ball into the net for England. An incident which met with much 'hilarity'. Something tells me it wouldn't have done had our opponents done it!

[neilios]

The hungarian no 2 clearly attempted a dangerous tackle ,a 2 footed jump into the players legs so a clear penalty ,as taken from the fifa rulebook.

Yep gerrard did dive to make sure lol.

Unfortunatly the fifa rulebook does not really go into every detail ,for every single event that could possibly happen during a game ,thats what the referee seminars are for .You often hear refs say i wish players would learn the rules of the game .

[overkill]

Originally Posted by neilios

The hungarian no 2 clearly attempted a dangerous tackle ,a 2 footed jump into the players legs so a clear penalty ,as taken from the fifa rulebook.

Yep gerrard did dive to make sure lol.

Unfortunatly the fifa rulebook does not really go into every detail ,for every single event that could possibly happen during a game ,thats what the referee seminars are for .You often hear refs say i wish players would learn the rules of the game .

I'm not sure what angle you saw that from but all everyone else saw was the Hungarian making a swipe at the ball and missing and gerrard about an hour later falling over........ from every angle!

There you go, "if you want to believe hard enough it will happen". Was Gerrard wearing red boots then? If that wasn't an unprovoked dive he WAS in Kanasas!

[neilios]

Well the ref gave it straight away ,gerrard did dive ,and the ref gave the penalty according to the rules of the game .

Everyone has an opinion ,its just that mine differs from the majority ,thats what makes football so good.

[DJT75]

It was a 2 footed challenge towards another player - not a swipe at the ball with 1 foot. It doesn't matter that Gerrard dived - it's a penalty.

Had it happened outside of the box & the referee gave an advantage he should go back & send that player off. If no advantage given, he would give a free kick & should send him off. Just because it was in the area doesn't make it any better or worse.

[overkill]

Originally Posted by DJT75

It was a 2 footed challenge towards another player - not a swipe at the ball with 1 foot. It doesn't matter that Gerrard dived - it's a penalty.

Had it happened outside of the box & the referee gave an advantage he should go back & send that player off. If no advantage given, he would give a free kick & should send him off. Just because it was in the area doesn't make it any better or worse.

Even the BBC describe it as a 'two footed swipe at the ball'. Gerrard took one step to the right carried on and then dived and that does matter. If he had gone down as a result of diving over a lunge to protect himself - no problem. The fact is, he didn't, he carried on his run then threw himself down. It's called cheating no matter how you try and excuse it. The fact he's wearing an England shirt should have no bearing on that - although clearly it seems to.

Had Pires done exactlythe same in the same situation the 'foreigner bashers' would be starting thread about how despicable he was. Just watch this space should it happen.

Sorry, it's still hypocracy.

[neilios]

The rules of the game are determined by fifa ,not the bbc or the man down the pub.

[JohnG]

I'd rather our players play the game properly without resorting to cheating, for me it's no defence to say that everyone else does it.

[DJT75]

I'm not even commenting on whether Gerrard dived or not, I'm saying the opposing player committed an offence in the penalty area which correctly resulted in a penalty. He was lucky not to get a red card too.

I wouldn't compare what Gerrard did last night, or what Owen did in 1998 to the average blatant dive. There's a skill in winning penalties & just because Gerrard did enough without injuring himself to win that penalty doesn't mean he should stop still & wait for the leg breaker to come in.

[Ultima]

Originally Posted by overkill

'two footed swipe at the ball'. .

I really, really wouldn't know where to start an attempt at a "two footed swipe at the ball".

If anybody has tried this and succeeded please let me know. It sounds impossible.

Martin

[neilios]

Lol thats quite funny.