When is a dive not a dive ?

RMCF · 30-05-2006, 8:16 PM

When an English player does it.

I can't believe what I just heard from the BBC commentary team/half-time analysts.

Not once did they say, 'Gerrard dived'.

Now some might agree with Ian Wright's idea that others are doing it so we may as well. Thats OK with me, as long as the media then stop going on about how much foreigners dive and how honest the English footballer is.

I thought that Ian Wright would have been challenged by somebody for his comments, but alas. Hansen's only comment was that the Hungarian defender had made 'a bad tackle'. Yeah but he didn't make any contact Alan, so Gerrard CHEATED !!! Tell it like it is.

A cheat is a cheat, even if he's one of your own.

MonkeyKnuckle · 30-05-2006, 8:19 PM

I agree, Gerrard dived twice in the box and Cole dived, cheats!

overkill · 30-05-2006, 9:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOK

When an English player does it.

I can't believe what I just heard from the BBC commentary team/half-time analysts.

Not once did they say, 'Gerrard dived'.

Now some might agree with Ian Wright's idea that others are doing it so we may as well. Thats OK with me, as long as the media then stop going on about how much foreigners dive and how honest the English footballer is.

I thought that Ian Wright would have been challenged by somebody for his comments, but alas. Hansen's only comment was that the Hungarian defender had made 'a bad tackle'. Yeah but he didn't make any contact Alan, so Gerrard CHEATED !!! Tell it like it is.

A cheat is a cheat, even if hees one of your own.

Phew! I'm glad it wasn't just me then! I was horrified by the disgusting comments made at half time! So cheating is justified on the grounds it might happen to you! NOT!

It was blatant dive, and a poor decision. As you say if we want to cry 'foul' about 'cheating foreigners' then we need to be squeeky clean ourselves. If not then shut up about it!

FruitBat · 30-05-2006, 9:05 PM

Yes, I was a bit disappointed as well.
Don't our players have enough faith in their own abilities to stay on their feet and play the ball?

dixiboy2 · 30-05-2006, 9:58 PM

Remember their first opponents are South American. They need some practice

RoNaLdiNhO · 31-05-2006, 2:46 AM

Agree with the posts above i really could not belive it when half time came and they started to come out with that crap. Lets be honest though no one really mentioned it when Stevie G dived in the champsion league final last year to get a pen. Or when Owen did agaist argentina in worldcup 02/04 to get pens.

Rooney agaist arsenal comes to mind to when campbell does not touch him and he dived at old trafford to get a pen last year also.

ash · 31-05-2006, 7:07 AM

LOL English players are divers just like Argentina

Gerrard did make it look really good though.

dc007 · 31-05-2006, 7:11 AM

Ian Wrights comments were a disgrace. If ever the Beeb were looking for a reason to remove him without being accused of racial bias, now is the chance.

po_man · 31-05-2006, 7:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc007

Ian Wrights comments were a disgrace. If ever the Beeb were looking for a reason to remove him without being accused of racial bias, now is the chance.

I saw the dives but i didn't hear what Ian Wright said. Can someone quote what he said?

Crocodile · 31-05-2006, 8:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by po_man

I saw the dives but i didn't hear what Ian Wright said. Can someone quote what he said?

IIRC, the phrase he used was "good play" & Overkill has para-phrased the justification. In fairness to Wright though if he were to condemn cheating he'd have to find another club to support.

As I'm a simplistic soul I'd really like to see this & other forms of blatant cheating stopped. How? - quite easy. The referee asks the player in question if he was brought down, handled the ball, exaggerated injury, etc. & the players word is accepted as fact. The video of the game is then reviewed by a panel of referees & any player found to have gained an advantage by cheating automatically receives a 10 game ban.

DJT75 · 31-05-2006, 9:16 AM

Am I not right in saying that you don't have to make contact for a penalty to be awarded? I'm pretty sure it's all down to intent, that was a 2 footed challenge & Gerrard could've been seen as getting out of the way. To me it's a penalty anyway & the guy was lucky not to see red.

The panel's comments were poor & didn't look at the situation correctly at all, however - Wright is right in what he said, he just shouldn't say it on live TV.

RoNaLdiNhO · 31-05-2006, 9:20 AM

^ he pulled out the challege thats why it was not red or even a yellow just a pen for the diving scouser.

DJT75 · 31-05-2006, 9:26 AM

How can you "pull out of a challenge" with both feet in the air unless your Superman or David Copperfield??

Direct free kick

A direct free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following six offences in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:

kicks or attempts to kick an opponent
trips or attempts to trip an opponent
jumps at an opponent
charges an opponent
strikes or attempts to strike an opponent
pushes an opponent
A direct free kick is also awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following four offences:

tackles an opponent to gain possession of the ball, making contact with the opponent before touching the ball
holds an opponent
spits at an opponent
handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within his own penalty area)
A direct free kick is taken from where the offence occurred.

Penalty kick

A penalty kick is awarded if any of the above ten offences is committed by a player inside his own penalty area, irrespective of the position of the ball, provided it is in play.

Indirect free kick

An indirect free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a goalkeeper, inside his own penalty area, commits any of the following five offences:

takes more than six seconds while controlling the ball with his hands before releasing it from his possession
touches the ball again with his hands after it has been released from his possession and has not touched any other player
touches the ball with his hands after it has been deliberately been kicked to him by a team-mate
touches the ball with his hands after he has received it directly from a throw-in taken by a team-mate

An indirect free kick is also awarded to the opposing team if a player, in the opinion of the referee:

plays in a dangerous manner
impedes the progress of an opponent
prevents the goalkeeper from releasing the ball from his hands
commits any other offence, not previously mentioned in Law 12, for which play is stopped to caution or dismiss a player

The indirect free kick is taken from where the offence occurred.

Disciplinary sanctions

Only a player or substitute or substituted player may be shown the red or yellow card.

The Referee has the authority to take disciplinary sanctions, as from the moment he enters the field of play until he leaves the field of play after the final whistle.

Cautionable offences

A player is cautioned and shown the yellow card if he commits any of the following seven offences:

is guilty of unsporting behaviour
shows dissent by word or action
persistently infringes the Laws of the Game
delays the restart of play
fails to respect the required distance when play is restarted with a corner kick or free kick
enters or re-enters the field of play without the referee’s permission
deliberately leaves the field of play without the referee’s permission

Sending-off offences

A player is sent off and shown the red card if he commits any of the following seven offences:

is guilty of serious foul play
is guilty of violent conduct
spits at an opponent or any other person
denies the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by deliberately handling the ball (this does not apply to a goalkeeper within his own penalty area)
denies an obvious goal-scoring opportunity to an opponent moving towards the player’s goal by an offence punishable by a free kick or a penalty kick
uses offensive or insulting or abusive language and/or gestures
receives a second caution in the same match

Reading the above laws of the game I'd would say the pen was spot on - could be any of "kicks or attempts to kick an opponent, trips or attempts to trip an opponent, jumps at an opponent, charges an opponent, strikes or attempts to strike an opponent".

& the red should've been shown "denies an obvious goal-scoring opportunity to an opponent moving towards the player’s goal by an offence punishable by a free kick or a penalty kick"