[Woodywizz]

Just watching Liverpool v City, Alan Smith has just said - to quote:

"Look at Crouch, he's definitely booked his seat on the plane to Germany this season". What a load of .....

I know he gives another option - that option being to lump a long ball in the box to a streak of ...., who cannot head whilst jumping, nor control it with any finesse, nor find the back of the net. Another option ?, do not make me laugh...I would rather have someone in the squad who can score, or at least be strong enough to actually hold the ball up and then feed a true striker - Crouch can do neither.

Let's look at his record :

Liverpool - 34 apps in all competitions, 8 goals - about 1 every 4 games
Villa - 43 appearances in all comps, 6 goals - 1 every 7 games

So, who should we take instead??? Who has better form this season?? Take your pick really from :

Bent, Harewood, Cole, Moore, Defoe, Nolan, Beattie, Vassell, Roberts, Zamora, Dickov - the list goes on and on.

To underline my point, Benitez has just substituted him after 70 mins. Please Sven, do not take him to Germany. Our forwards will be taking on the best defenders in the world (hopefully) - do you really think the likes of nesta, puyol, cafu, etc..will be scared of the sight of this lumbering into the box?

[KevD]

I personally would listen to a word Alan Smith says. In fact I was extremely shocked he never got his own option in the recent poll for worst comm
Maybe because Coruch is alot like him (mediocre talent) he thinks Sven is as dumb as Graham Taylor

[mjn]

Originally Posted by woodywizz

Bent, Harewood, Cole, Moore, Defoe, Nolan, Beattie, Vassell, Roberts, Zamora, Dickov - the list goes on and on.

Interesting....isn't Dickov Scottish?

[Woodywizz]

Originally Posted by mjn

Interesting....isn't Dickov Scottish?

So he is. Just goes to show how bad I think Crouch is. I would rather attempt to take a vindictive little player who is not even eligible, than Crouch.

[Sick Boy]

Originally Posted by woodywizz

Bent, Harewood, Cole, Moore, Defoe, Nolan, Beattie, Vassell, Roberts, Zamora, Dickov - the list goes on and on.

This kind of post indicates why we are not football managers.

Jason Roberts plays/played for Ghana I think, and Bobby Zamora is not English either.

I also think that Bobby Moore is no longer with us and was never a striker anyway.

[Woodywizz]

Originally Posted by Sick Boy

This kind of post indicates why we are not football managers.

Jason Roberts plays/played for Ghana I think, and Bobby Zamora is not English either.

I also think that Bobby Moore is no longer with us and was never a striker anyway.

I will give you Roberts - it was Grenada. However, Zamora - born in London. I also realise that Bobby Moore is no longer with us, I meant Luke Moore of Villa (English).

[Steven]

To suggest Crouch was going to be a prolific goalscorer is naive. That job was intended for Cisse and Morientes who prior to joining Liverpool had prolific enough records

Crouch's job is to hold the ball up, flick it on and win balls in the air, allowing the likes of Kewell, Gerrard, Garcia and Crouch's strike partner to get onto those balls

Crouch was substituted after 70 minutes just to underline how poorly he played? Do you know anything about football? Morientes played far worse. Crouch on the other hand at least tries. FYI due to unfortunate circumstances, Crouch is our main man up front. Liverpool have played 47 matches this season - about 13 more than City, so Benitez has to preserve players

[KevD]

Originally Posted by Sick Boy

Bobby Zamora is not English either.

Originally Posted by woodywizz

Zamora - born in London.

Indeed he is, capped 6 times at U21 level for England

[Steven]

Originally Posted by woodywizz

Bent, Harewood, Cole, Moore, Defoe, Nolan, Beattie, Vassell, Roberts, Zamora, Dickov - the list goes on and on

Cole, Moore, Beattie, Vassell and Dickov aren't good enough - they're simply not international class or have the wrong passport

Bent, Harewood, Defoe and Zamora may well be interesting options to try out

As for Nolan, do you have a personal grudge against Crouch? Because it ain't Crouch keeping him out of Sven's plans - it's Gerrard, Lampard, Jenas and Carrick

And given Crouch's mere presence in the last 10 mins vs Argentina was enough to take the Argie's eye's off Owen, I say get off Crouchie's back

[Bristol Pete]

I also think that Bobby Moore is no longer with us and was never a striker anyway

Quality!!!!!

[Woodywizz]

Originally Posted by LFC_SL

Crouch's job is to hold the ball up, flick it on and win balls in the air, allowing the likes of Kewell, Gerrard, Garcia and Crouch's strike partner to get onto those balls

...........That's working then.

He cannot score goals - a prerequisite of most strikers; and he cannot hold the ball up. If Kewell, Garcia, Gerrard, Cisse were banging in 20 goals a season each,with Crouch assisting, then your argument may sway me - unfortunately they are not.

As a Liverpool fan, you cannot honestly tell me that Crouch is a great striker and deserves to wear your shirt...he doesn't. You have had great strikers like Owen, Rush, Fowler, etc....he is nowhere near that stature. Benitez should have signed Owen last year and the whole of Liverpool knows it.

No, I am not naive about football - just realistic.

[neilios]

I agree he's rubbish ,quite possibly the most bizarre centre forward in the world today.

Seems like a nice guy though.

[Woodywizz]

Originally Posted by LFC_SL

....As for Nolan, do you have a personal grudge against Crouch? Because it ain't Crouch keeping him out of Sven's plans - it's Gerrard, Lampard, Jenas and Carrick

Merely suggesting a player who has scored more goals this season in the Premiership, and whom is a good workhorse with plenty of assists. Also, to suggest that Andy Cole is not international class, and intimating that Crouch is,....absurd. Yes, I know he is nearing the end of his career, but he is still banging them in and he has a pedigree which only Crouch can dream about.

[Steven]

I know Crouch isn't gonna score 20+ a season. Benitez knows it. Sven know's it. He's picked for his teamplay. Liverpool shoot and cross from all angles as Crouch plays in the team. If that damn Morientes took his numerous chances, you'd be saying
"Crouch - he don't score, but everything else he does is great"
So what's your point?

But to say he can't do anything else - now that's absurd

[Woodywizz]

Originally Posted by LFC_SL

I know Crouch isn't gonna score 20+ a season. Benitez knows it. Sven know's it. He's picked for his teamplay. Liverpool shoot and cross from all angles as Crouch plays in the team. If that damn Morientes took his numerous chances, you'd be saying
"Crouch - he don't score, but everything else he does is great"
So what's your point?

The point is: he doesn't score 20 a season nor help others around him to do so. As a striker, if you're not doing the first then you need to be doing the second, in spades - he is not doing either. Never mind, Owen will be back at Anfield next season - partner him with Fowler, sell Crouch to..say Reading...and you'll be alright. If you wanted a striker who really does exemplify 'teamwork' then you should have put a bid in for Rooney....not that he would have come to you though.

Originally Posted by LFC_SL

..."Crouch - he don't score, but everything else he does is great"....

Unfortunately, it isn't. Strong in the air?....no; Great header of the ball?....no; Brilliant footwork and vision to set up others?...no; 6 foot 7?...yes....and....well, that's about it really.

[overkill]

Originally Posted by woodywizz

...........That's working then.

He cannot score goals - a prerequisite of most strikers; and he cannot hold the ball up. If Kewell, Garcia, Gerrard, Cisse were banging in 20 goals a season each,with Crouch assisting, then your argument may sway me - unfortunately they are not.

As a Liverpool fan, you cannot honestly tell me that Crouch is a great striker and deserves to wear your shirt...he doesn't. You have had great strikers like Owen, Rush, Fowler, etc....he is nowhere near that stature. Benitez should have signed Owen last year and the whole of Liverpool knows it.

No, I am not naive about football - just realistic.

Tbh I would agree. This always happens with the big NW pair, and although not as often, the big London clubs. A player has ONE good England game, arrives at his new club amidst a ton of spin, and suddenly he's 'first on the England teamsheet'. He then wins 20 odd caps, is crap in 18 of them, and then leaves Liv..... err', his club, and suddenly ceases to 'first on the England teamsheet'. The most famous recent example being, yes, the ever useless Heskey. Funny all the things said by the sycophantic press about Crouch (that were drivel, ie 'he holds the ball up well etc') applied to him too. I just hope to God we don't get lumbered with him in Germany.

However, the way the spin is going.........

[KevD]

I dont think anyone can argue that Crouch does the job that Benitiz wants him to do, this is backed up by the fact he seems to be first choice for Liverpool. He is a much better footballer than many give him credit for.
I just dont think he is good enough for England. Whilst I understand the idea of options I dont think the top teams would fear Crouch as they know exactly whats coming, Nesta and Cannavaro could probably deal with that all day. The advantage Defoe and Bent have is making something out of nothing, especially with the pace they have coming off the bench.

I think England can get away with 7 defenders and if they do then Crouch could go as a 5th striker if Sven wants that option, but I would be dissapointed if the others missed out for Crouch.

Have we not been here before?? ....Emile Heskey anybody

[LFCRules]

I can't believe no one has said it, but, "he has a good touch for a big man"

Who cares, we won, another crushing victory over an opponent, surely thats more important

[Woodywizz]

Originally Posted by LFCRules

I can't believe no one has said it, but, "he has a good touch for a big man"

Who cares, we won, another crushing victory over an opponent, surely thats more important

The fact that Liverpool beat City is not important when compared to the original argument....ie Crouch should not be going to the World Cup. "Crushing victory"???? - 1-0 against 10 men. Yes, 3 points are in the bag, but it was hardly 'crushing'. Maybe you should have kept Crouch on, no doubt he would have bagged a hat-trick in the last 20 mins and set up 3 more for Morientes, Gerrard, and Kewell - after all he did that in the first 70 mins, didn't he???....anyone?.....no.....anyone....no....dust.. .anyone?...dust?

[LFCRules]

I really hope Crouch makes the world cup, coz I've already made my world cup predictions at work, and I have Crouch for golden boot

Taking off my red coloured spectacles for a second, yes there are options, and I'd like to think Sven would choose the strikers on form for the WC. Obvious saying, but goal scorers win games, and if they ain't doing in the league, they'll struggle in the WC.

Now, back with the spec's on, if Crouch, sorry I mean when Crouch knocks in 15 goals between now and the end of the season, he'll be on the plane

[Abbeygoo]

Originally Posted by overkill

Tbh I would agree. This always happens with the big NW pair, and although not as often, the big London clubs. A player has ONE good England game, arrives at his new club amidst a ton of spin, and suddenly he's 'first on the England teamsheet'. He then wins 20 odd caps, is crap in 18 of them, and then leaves Liv..... err', his club, and suddenly ceases to 'first on the England teamsheet'. The most famous recent example being, yes, the ever useless Heskey. Funny all the things said by the sycophantic press about Crouch (that were drivel, ie 'he holds the ball up well etc') applied to him too. I just hope to God we don't get lumbered with him in Germany.

However, the way the spin is going.........

Good point. Crouch was playing very well in a struggling Southampton side towards the end of last season and couldn't get in the England set up at all. He gets a move to Liverpool and then he's suddenly an integral part of the squad? Overkill's point about Heskey is spot on. Playing well for Leicester, moves to Liverpool ....... You can even include Alan Smith in that as well. He was the top man at Leeds and didn't figure much in Sven's thoughts. He moves to Old Trafford for £8m and the very next England team ..... Smith starts up front. Bizarre.

Back to the point about Crouch - he will be on the plane to Germany, whether we like it or not. If England go to Germany with Owen, Rooney, Defoe, Bent, Johnson, Vassell etc, we will have a squad full of small, quick strikers. The manager obviously wants something different to turn to. There is no question Owen and Rooney will start. I would even say that Defoe is next in line. But just as in the Argentina friendly recently, if we need to change our style of play, then Crouch can give us that option.

I'm not a fan of his but fans of football tactics should be able to see the logic behind that ......

[PhilNUK]

lets look at the other end of the squad... Wes Brown, Gary Neville and Ferdinand....
Ah well, Kaka, Ronaldinho, Shevchenko and Torres must be worried after all Roberts and Camara struggled against them today

its all well and good having a pop at Crouch and yeah hes not prollific by any means... but he adds another element to the team and Benitez needs to build around that. Owen and Crouch would work very well together, maybe Rafa will go for Owen? not sure...
anyway, if thats all the mancs have to worry about then there is something wrong with the world.... ah well, they won today that can only be great news as it means Fergie will probably have at least another 3/4 years in charge and the Mancs labelled it as the Mickey Mouse Cup when we won it... now its a sign they are back in the big time

[KevD]

Originally Posted by PhilNUK

Wes Brown, Gary Neville and Ferdinand....

I dont understand your point here
Neville and Ferdinand are proven quality international footballers and Wes Brown has performed well in European competition for a good few seasons now. Blinkered vision me suspects

[Miyazaki]

Take if from a Villa fan, Crouch is *****. The 'pool fans who say otherwise are just saving face until he is shipped out. Another Heskey IMHO, but without the strength!

[Steven]

Originally Posted by Games Guru

Take if from a Villa fan, Crouch is *****. The 'pool fans who say otherwise are just saving face until he is shipped out

Who's saving face?

True though...on FM 2006 I sell Crouch, Cisse, Pongolle + Mellor and bring in replacements. Morientes has surprisingly good stats on the game

[smashed]

I think the comments about bobby moore etc show why you are not a manager. Coupled with the comment of rather taking anybody than him.
Watching him play for Southampton, and now Liverpool shows me why he should be on the plane.
The fact is, Owen and Rooney are our top 2. Bent and Defoe are backups if they get injured or suspended.
But if we are struggling to break down a team, or need to grab a goal late on, then bringing on crouch will make a big difference.
He can score, but more importantly he gives a different element to our play if option A isnt working. His knockdowns on the edge of the box (yes he does have good feet and close control) for Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney etc could well provide them with a chance closer to goal than we would have otherwise have managed.
And Beckhams crosses scare the crap out of any team. Then stick Crouch in the box, and you have people worried. Keepers worry, defenders worry. They suddenly go from double marking Rooney etc, to worryin bout Crouch. That then gives others more space.
IT doesnt matter that Crouch cant head like Shearer, he will still create the right effect in that final 10mins if we are struggling to break a team down.

What else are we going to do? Bring on Defoe and have 3 little players running around up front? It just doesnt work.. too predictable

Crouch hasnt scored many this season, but Liverpool have been winning a lot and believe it or not there will be some connection (Though obviously its not all down to Crouch)

And no, im not his biggest fan, and I HATE Sven, but it IS our best plan B.

[PhilNUK]

[QUOTE=KevD]

Originally Posted by PhilNUK

Wes Brown, Gary Neville and Ferdinand.... QUOTE]
I dont understand your point here
Neville and Ferdinand are proven quality international footballers and Wes Brown has performed well in European competition for a good few seasons now. Blinkered vision me suspects

nope.. not blinkered at all... Man U must have one of the worst defensive records in the Premiership... they were in bits again today on more than one occasion..
I know Neville has been quality for Man U... but Ferdinand and Brown are absolutely useless... if Terry and Carragher aren't the first choice for England then something is seriously wrong..

[speedymct]

Originally Posted by PhilNUK

lets look at the other end of the squad... Wes Brown, Gary Neville and Ferdinand....
Ah well, Kaka, Ronaldinho, Shevchenko and Torres must be worried after all Roberts and Camara struggled against them today

Ah.. I see the Manyoo battering has started again now that they've won something.

Who exactly would you imagine to have in the defence?

Ashley cole will be back soon & wayne bridge does a good job, but Chelsea have seen to it that he will only be in Germany as back up at best. Sol Campbell is having an... off period, shall we say..

Obviously John Terry will be a definite as he's probably the most consistent full back we've got.

Wes Brown's been out for a while but he was class today, no matter how blinkered you are.

& say what you like about G Neville, but at least he plays with a bit of passion & wants to win the game. Just look back over the last 10 years for that.

[speedymct]

Originally Posted by PhilNUK

nope.. not blinkered at all... Man U must have one of the worst defensive records in the Premiership... they were in bits again today on more than one occasion..
I know Neville has been quality for Man U... but Ferdinand and Brown are absolutely useless... if Terry and Carragher aren't the first choice for England then something is seriously wrong..

OMG... Just have a look at the league table before making statements like that. They've got the 6th best record in the premiership defensively, & have scored the second highest amount of goals. Unbelievable.

[mjn]

Originally Posted by LFC_SL

Who's saving face?

True though...on FM 2006 I sell Crouch, Cisse

I get 55 goals a season out of Cisse on FM 2006 and around 20 out of Crouch!!