[la gran siete]

When we have got a sport which is infinitely more exciting played by players who are not a bunch of massively overpaid prima donnas who squeel at the slightest bit of physical contact, take a dive where they think an opponent might get sent off, constantly show dissent at the ref, often behave like idiots off the park. A sport watched by real fans who always respect the opposition,repsect the opponents national anthem ,realise that IT IS ONLY a sport to be enjoyed but NEVER taken too seriously. A sport where players GIVE their all for the jersey- tough, single minded, physical but where friendships are made for life. That sport is rugby.
Over the weekend I have witnessed three utterly briliant matches where the participants played with so much pride , endevour and considerable skill. Where even when the cause was lost they never gave up. Both Ireland and Scotland can hold their heads up high ; their spirit has been most impressive. Ireland 43- 3 down with 30 minutes to go threw donw the gauntlet and scored 4 excellent tries as a riposte. Scotland down to 14 men because Scott Murray was sent off for what seemed like an inocuous tap on Gough's head fought and fought and only went down by ten points .Excellent stuff ! Two weekends of superb rugby!


Football??? Bah!Call it oikball more like or poofball!

[overkill]

Be thankful people do like football siete. If not, and they elevated rugby up to football levels of support and potential earnings, then surprise, the cheating would begin. Too much money = too much pressure to succeed.

Rugby still has an air of the amateur, and that can't be bad.

I agree as well, been a great six nations so far!

[Steven]

It's still the "people's" sport. Anyone can play it; all you needed was a ball and handy jumpers as a kid

Rugby: can't be doing it outside P.E; messing ourselves up and all that
Cricket: (I know I'll rile some) pretentious middle class glorified rounders. Plus too much equipment and hassle involved in setting up a game

I'd go into other sports, but it'd either be too much hassle or involves like swimming, a specific enviroment

This is purely the 7 yr old inside me talking. 11 years on, criminally I can't play as often as I like

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by LFC_SL

Cricket: (I know I'll rile some) pretentious middle class glorified rounders. Plus too much equipment and hassle involved in setting up a game

There must be an awful lot of pretentious middle class people in India, Pakistan and Bangladesh as cricket is their sport of choice, every child plays it and dreams of becoming a Test player and they learn the basics of the game by bowling anything round at a wicket drawn onto a wall.

I've been to a large number of Test Matches and unlike football where the crowds have to be segregated due to the animal like behaviour of many of the supporters there is no segregation at rugby or cricket matches and I have sat next to Pakistanis when playing Pakistan, Indians when playing India and Sri Lankans when playing Sri Lanka and we all enjoy the match together no matter who is winning or losing.

[dc007]

Rugby players might be more respectful to the referee, but the violence they commit on eachother through punches, gouges and kicks is every bit as disgraceful as a footballers play-acting and dirty tackling. Just because they shake hands afterward doesn't make it right. For instance, that New Zealanders spear-tackle on O'Driscoll should have faced criminal charges.

[DJT75]

Rugby's basically a bunch of blokes who weren't any good at football at school.....

[Nebby]

We get it - you don't like football, you're more into minority sports like rugby.

Fair enough, each to their own. Get over it.

[la gran siete]

Originally Posted by Nebby

We get it - you don't like football, you're more into minority sports like rugby.

Fair enough, each to their own. Get over it.

No I like a football I just dont like the idiocy that goes with it .Overpaid idiots , a sport that gets far too much coverage including a radio station almost entirely devoted to it, pundits spouting endless drivel, hooliganism,fans paying FAAAAAR too much to watch a game.Back in the early seventies it didnt cost much more to watch a game than to go the movies, now its about 4 or 5 times the price .Ridiculous!
Rugby is a tough sport of far higher intensity where tempoers are easily frayed hence the thuggery that went on the pitch. With the advent of profesionalism the rules against such thuggery have become more and more stringent which is why S Murray was sent off for a retaliatory kick to Goughs head. Being the man he is instead of skulking like a nancyboy footballer he went and offered his apologies which were accepted. Having said that there will always be an element skuldugery especially in the scrums because its difficult to detect- eg eye gouging. The French are particularly adept at that.
What I particlarly like about the sport is the ethos around it.The players play hard and with maximum effort but then share a drink with their opponents ie the game is over and no hard feelings( generally - there are, of course, exceptions). As for the fans ? All i can say is that they are the best always in good cheer, mixing with rival fans, having a drink without any bother at all.If their team loses a match? Well so what, tomorrow is another day. You dont get endless recriminations, calls for the sacking of a manager, insults delivered at rival teams. Mate of mine went to watch the WC final between Australia and England as well as the smi against France.Reckoned the best fans were -----the Aussies. Great sports!

Upon reflection I think OK is right. Better rugby stays as it is lest it attracts the more unsavoury aspects found in th e so called "beautiful game"

[Steven]

Everyone says football/rugby...cheating..kicking blah blah

But there's a sport where blows to the head are legal and encouraged, which is more dangerous. I'm talking about boxing

Originally Posted by Ian J

There must be an awful lot of pretentious middle class people in India, Pakistan and Bangladesh as cricket is their sport of choice, every child plays it and dreams of becoming a Test player and they learn the basics of the game by bowling anything round at a wicket drawn onto a wall.

I've been to a large number of Test Matches and unlike football where the crowds have to be segregated due to the animal like behaviour of many of the supporters there is no segregation at rugby or cricket matches and I have sat next to Pakistanis when playing Pakistan, Indians when playing India and Sri Lankans when playing Sri Lanka and we all enjoy the match together no matter who is winning or losing.

I answered from the point of view of a sport viewer from Britain, as I thought was implied by the 1st post. You can't deny the more affluent favour cricket over football. May never happen, but if England where to win the football world cup, the celebrations of football fans I'm sure would put the back slapping celebrations of rugby and cricket sportsmen to shame. I'd think it'd put the over-used phrase of "nice to see the country behind us" into perspective

Football has too much cheating, diving and imitation to get fellow professionals into trouble. You can't deny that. There are too many dangerous two footed tackles. Yes. But it's still the number one sport in the world. The fans aren't quite put off just yet.

[la gran siete]

Originally Posted by LFC_SL

It's still the "people's" sport. Anyone can play it; all you needed was a ball and handy jumpers as a kid

Rugby: can't be doing it outside P.E; messing ourselves up and all that
Cricket: (I know I'll rile some) pretentious middle class glorified rounders. Plus too much equipment and hassle involved in setting up a game

I'd go into other sports, but it'd either be too much hassle or involves like swimming, a specific enviroment

This is purely the 7 yr old inside me talking. 11 years on, criminally I can't play as often as I like

cricket is the one sport which crosses the class divide ie people of all the different social backgrounds play and watch it. The days of gentlemen and players are long gone.Rugby Union is more your middle class sport but even that is changing

[Nebby]

No I like a football I just dont like the idiocy that goes with it .Overpaid idiots , a sport that gets far too much coverage including a radio station almost entirely devoted to it, pundits spouting endless drivel, hooliganism,fans paying FAAAAAR too much to watch a game.Back in the early seventies it didnt cost much more to watch a game than to go the movies, now its about 4 or 5 times the price .Ridiculous!

Er, the reason football gets so much coverage is because it's the most popular sport on the planet. That also might have something to do with ticket prices, don't you think?

And how can you say that footballers are overpaid? They get paid what they are worth, pure and simple.

[la gran siete]

Originally Posted by Nebby

No I like a football I just dont like the idiocy that goes with it .Overpaid idiots , a sport that gets far too much coverage including a radio station almost entirely devoted to it, pundits spouting endless drivel, hooliganism,fans paying FAAAAAR too much to watch a game.Back in the early seventies it didnt cost much more to watch a game than to go the movies, now its about 4 or 5 times the price .Ridiculous!

Er, the reason football gets so much coverage is because it's the most popular sport on the planet. That also might have something to do with ticket prices, don't you think?

And how can you say that footballers are overpaid? They get paid what they are worth, pure and simple.

If a footballer is worth £2000000 a year then my doctor must be worth at least £30.000.000 and the teacher must be worth a good £20.000.000. They both do jobs which are infinitely more important than kicking a ball around.
Its about having a sense of proportion and knowing the worth of things

[DJT75]

Originally Posted by la gran siete

If a footballer is worth £2000000 a year then my doctor must be worth at least £30.000.000 and the teacher must be worth a good £20.000.000. They both do jobs which are infinitely more important than kicking a ball around.
Its about having a sense of proportion and knowing the worth of things

Absolute twaddle.. How many people worldwide could, if they wanted to, train to be a doctor or teacher v how many people worldwide can play football like Theirry Henry?

I get sick of people saying footballers are overpaid, yes some are but that's not their fault, the clubs are paying it. Looks at other sports around the world - F1 racing - the german git takes about £40million a year (& don't give me the danger factor - they pay him to drive not rsik his life). The average US Basketball player takes home more that the TOP world footballers, same with Baseball, Ice Hockey, Golf, Tennis..........

[mrtbag]

Originally Posted by la gran siete

Its about having a sense of proportion and knowing the worth of things

Shouldn't that read "Its about having MY sense of proportion and knowing the worth of things TO ME."

I understand your point LGS, but many a time you've swung your axe the football brigade. I like both Football and Rugby. I do think some of the wages in football are extreme, but that's the way the game is. It does not make me think 'Why do I bother'. I bother beacuse I enjoy the sport the same as Rugby. The one thing Football has over Rugby, is a smaller divide between the top flight and lower divisions. Most Championship football teams could afford a trip to the Premiership, only 2 or 3 Div 1 teams can afford the Rugby Prermiership.

[Nebby]

I assume LGS thinks it is just as obscene for Peter Jackson to be paid a $20 million advance just to direct King Kong (hardly anything of global cultural importance)...or is just footballers that he has a problem with?

Footballers are paid what they are worth...and so are doctors, teachers, nurses and so on.

If 'we' as a nation thought the latter were worth more, we'd pay them more.

They get what they get because we couldn't care less.

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by Nebby

Er, the reason football gets so much coverage is because it's the most popular sport on the planet.

You are probably correct if the planet now excludes North America, Asia and Oceania.

[Nebby]

so come on then...which is the most popular sport?

[la gran siete]

Originally Posted by Nebby

I assume LGS thinks it is just as obscene for Peter Jackson to be paid a $20 million advance just to direct King Kong (hardly anything of global cultural importance)...or is just footballers that he has a problem with?

Footballers are paid what they are worth...and so are doctors, teachers, nurses and so on.

If 'we' as a nation thought the latter were worth more, we'd pay them more.

They get what they get because we couldn't care less.

That is basically the problem in a nutshell we value ball kickers far too highly and take things that matter far more like like health and education for granted. Is it any wonder that the calibre of doctor and teacher is not as high as it might be?Years ago entertainers would travfel from town to town where the inhabitants woulkd chuck a few coppers at them and they would be off. Football players demands were constrained by a maximum wage, the grounds were always full ,the ordinary working class, who had little ]else to look forward to, could afford the tickets and most of the playes behaved like gentlemen eg Stanley Mathews ,Wilf Manion, Bobby Charlton, Booby Moore. Nowdays you've got the prawn sandwich brigade shovelling obscene sums of money at the clubs, greedy agents demanding more and more for their clients and clubs run by egomaniacs who regard their clubs as some kind of hobby.The overcosseted players invariably behave like imbeciles and the fans seem to think it cool to throw insults at other fans/players. They treat football as a religion and their clubs like a cathedral and woe betide anyone who criticises their hallowed club
If fans can afford to fork out £600 + per season ticket then they can afford to fork out more for things that MATTER more like health and education.After all they can always go and watch the local pub sides. Cheap as chips

[Bristol Pete]

LGS, some valid points here. However, one thing I would say is that at least the powers that be in football have not contrived to make the game unenjoyable, slow, overly complicated and a parody of what it once was, unlike rugby in many ways.

Pete.

[Nebby]

Blimey, we are well and truly into la la land aren't we.

Football players demands were constrained by a maximum wage, the grounds were always full ,the ordinary working class, who had little ]else to look forward to, could afford the tickets and most of the playes behaved like gentlemen eg Stanley Mathews ,Wilf Manion, Bobby Charlton, Booby Moore.

Yeah right...and you could leave your door unlocked, walk the streets alone at night, and ronnie and reggie only robbed and killed their own kind. What a load of sepia toned tosh.

Why should football players have to suffer a maximum wage? Because you decide that somehow they are not worthy of what they are paid?

And the idea that today's game is run by greedy fatcats, riddled with money grabbing agents, and over indulged players is just a lazy generalisation straight from the pages of the Daily Mail.

Just because a few hundred premiership first team players earn more than a doctor, nurse or teacher. What about all of the other hundreds - if not thousands - of professions that also pay more? Are they wrong too? Get real.

As I said before, 'we' as a nation don't care about what a doctor or nurse is paid, or about the starving in africa, the victims of hurricane katrina and so on.

Sure we care a little, but certainly not a lot. Becuase if we did, we wouldn't limit our caring to digging out a few coins or notes whenever the collection tin gets rattled under our nose. No, we'd pick up the phone, ring Bob Geldoff and say "screw the summer holiday, here's three grand to help the starving in Africa".

[la gran siete]

Originally Posted by Captain Benefit

LGS, some valid points here. However, one thing I would say is that at least the powers that be in football have not contrived to make the game unenjoyable, slow, overly complicated and a parody of what it once was, unlike rugby in many ways.

Pete.

i dont know if you have been watching the six nations championship but unenjoyable and slow are adjectives I would not apply to it .It has been the best that I can remember with loads of tries and loads of fast attacking play from all sides.Complicated I grant you it isanad difficult to follow at times. So many rules and so many infringements . I still enjoy it more than football.
They can both produce boring games mind .

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by Nebby

we are well and truly into la la land aren't we.

What a load of sepia toned tosh.

Get real..

Please moderate your posting style as comments like the above are inflammatory and therefore not appreciated.

[Steven]

I've been waiting for this...

Why should sport (particularly football) wages be made an example of? Why cap them?

The wages are paid via a combination of ticket sales, merchandising and sponsorship. But guess what? No one is forced to pay it. Imagine if no one went to Saturday's Prem games. Or the weekend after. Wages would drop. It's called choice and supply and demand

la gran siete, like Labour MPs however, like to make footballers a scapegoat. MPs vote for a pay rise every 4 years, and no one get's a say. Director's take home 7 figure bonuses while the pensions of the workers are dropped. No one says a word

Yet mention football, it's either "cheats", "bad influence" or "obscene wages"

As for fans can afford a bit more towards doctors, teachers etc, well the gov has enough. We wouldn't be talking about the NHS deficit if there wasn't the multi-billion pound war.

Re "excitement factor", maybe when other sports catch up, then we'd see their "over exposure on TV".

P.S. if you want excitement in football, only watch Liverpool in Europe

[neilios]

Maybe the money pumped into players wages would be better spent on developing the game and giving the fans top class stadia and facilities .

Football at grass roots level is very poor and under funded ,its only at the very top level that the players earn extortionate wages anyway.

Jimmy hill started the wages revolution in good faith ,but i agree with lgs footballers get paid far too much,for too little work.

[la gran siete]

P.S. if you want excitement in football, only watch Liverpool in Europe

I'd rather watch paint dry its more exciting

Why cap wages? Because for one thing the current status quo sets a bad precedent. Captains of industry who believe they are the Stars of their profession think they should be paid colossal salaries with all sorts extras such as fat pension schemes ,share options etc nad they get them whether their companies perform well or not.People in other walks of life probably feel likewise and attempt to charge well over the odds as well.Its the greed gravy boat pur and simple.People need to realise that football isnt that important and that the players are merely people who earn a living by kicking a ball around and their wages should reflect that, They should not be treated like anything special at least no more special than a dustman or a nurse. In fact if it was a choice between having my rubbish collected every week and Liverpool winning the Euro Championship then I'll have my rubbish removed please.
The way i see is if we all had to pay the market costs for health and education for our kids then suspect most of us would choose not to subscribe to Sky or pay the crazy season ticket prices or the overinflated football shirt prices. The clubs would then have to drop their prices and lower player wages. It wont happen so the government should step in and force the FA to set a player wages cap

[Steven]

That's very idealistic, and on principle I support your comments

However I won't hold my breath anytime soon that Blair would cap bonuses for company directors. Especially as he's so presumptuous that Brown will be the next PM. Incredible arrogance to brush a fair few million voters under the carpet

[overkill]

Originally Posted by Nebby

No I like a football I just dont like the idiocy that goes with it .Overpaid idiots , a sport that gets far too much coverage including a radio station almost entirely devoted to it, pundits spouting endless drivel, hooliganism,fans paying FAAAAAR too much to watch a game.Back in the early seventies it didnt cost much more to watch a game than to go the movies, now its about 4 or 5 times the price .Ridiculous!

Er, the reason football gets so much coverage is because it's the most popular sport on the planet. That also might have something to do with ticket prices, don't you think?

And how can you say that footballers are overpaid? They get paid what they are worth, pure and simple.

Nope. The coverage is due to Sky being behind it, and needing to make as much profit from it as possible hence maxium spin and exposure for the modern game. Ticket prices are so high due to the overpaid players. When 'I were a lad' gates overall where higher, and many, many, more people watched the games (all over the World looking at international gates recently!) yet gate prices were at sensible levels (£1 to get in, 10p for a proggy). The gate prices rocketed with the introduction of the prem, and with the Bosmann ruling.

Players get paid what they are worth? Get away with you! If people were paid what they were worth then surgeons would be on £500,000 a year and nurses on £200,000. They ain't. Players show their real ability these days on the negotiation table, not on the pitch. If only..............

Players these days are so average, (I just watched a video of the 88-89' season and I wish I hadn't as the gap between then and now is embarrasing - because even back then they were in a different class to today!) and put in so many 'only when I feel like it performances' that they should be on performance related pay. Like the *****y rest of us! 90% of the top players would find themselves earning a darn slight less if they were!

[overkill]

Originally Posted by LFC_SL

That's very idealistic, and on principle I support your comments

However I won't hold my breath anytime soon that Blair would cap bonuses for company directors. Especially as he's so presumptuous that Brown will be the next PM. Incredible arrogance to brush a fair few million voters under the carpet

Plus parties can change leaders mid term, and thus PM's without needing to go to the polls. They never have needed to.

I know you're young but these sort of comments give away HOW young.

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by overkill

The coverage is due to Sky being behind it

It was when Sky spent so much money to buy up the British football industry that the players' agents whipped in quick to ensure that all of the extra millions being pumped into football went into their clients' pockets rather than elsewhere.

[overkill]

Originally Posted by neilios

Maybe the money pumped into players wages would be better spent on developing the game and giving the fans top class stadia and facilities .

Football at grass roots level is very poor and under funded ,its only at the very top level that the players earn extortionate wages anyway.

Jimmy hill started the wages revolution in good faith ,but i agree with lgs footballers get paid far too much,for too little work.

This is getting to be a habit......... Agreed.

Even the 'new' stadia are cramped plastic affairs with poor views from the back of the stands. With the older stadia, when they went 'all-seater' (boo!) all they cared about was cramming in as many seats per square inch as they could. No offence Neilo but Anfields like this. The last two times I've been I've sat in different areas, and neither time could I move my arms more than two mm's either side! What are we sardines? Same elsewhere I know, it's just Liverpool are a big club (and I got there and to Everton most often) and have less excuse.

The sweet FA are most to blame for underfunding grass roots. Soon as they won their 100 year old feud with the football leauge, and won back the top clubs, they lost all interest in funding any other area in football. Including, quite disgracefully, the national team.

Jimmy Hill! Grrrrr, the mans an idiot. I remember a more intelligent man than he, Danny Blanchflower, warned that scrapping the maximum wage would be a disaster for the game. He wasn't wrong.