AVForums

Our philosophy in our forums, reviews, podcasts and feature videos is to promote audio and visual excellence by gathering and sharing the best information and resources available.

Help

To begin please visit our help section »

Not a Member Yet?

It only takes a minute to start enjoying the benefits of AVForums membership, and it's free!

Member Log in

Wayne Bridge Pulls Out Of England Duty (and World Cup!)

View Poll Results: Who would you rather stayed away from the World Cup?
John Terry 37 61.67%
Wayne Bridge 23 38.33%
Voters: 60. You may not vote on this poll

Post Reply
Old 25-02-2010, 12:23 PM   #1
Member
 
Louis Reeves's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bournemouth
Experience Points:
2,143, Level: 10
Points: 2,143, Level: 10 Points: 2,143, Level: 10 Points: 2,143, Level: 10
Activity: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Thanks: Gave 55, Got 16
Posts: 175
Wayne Bridge Pulls Out Of England Duty (and World Cup!)

I am absolutely gutted for Wayne Bridge....

BBC Sport - Football - England's Wayne Bridge withdraws from internationals

We could potentially really need him this summer if Ashley Cole doesn't recover well from his injury!

What are your thoughts?

Who would you rather stayed away from our World Cup Squad: Terry or Bridge?
  Quote
Old 25-02-2010, 12:28 PM   #2
Prominent Member
 
Bloodzeed's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2009
Experience Points:
3,267, Level: 13
Points: 3,267, Level: 13 Points: 3,267, Level: 13 Points: 3,267, Level: 13
Activity: 0.3%
Activity: 0.3% Activity: 0.3% Activity: 0.3%
Thanks: Gave 510, Got 230
Posts: 3,078
Yeah im really gutted for him earns over 80k week....Dont rate him leighton baines is better imo take him to the world cup with cole if fit

Last edited by Bloodzeed; 25-02-2010 at 12:31 PM.
  Quote
Old 25-02-2010, 12:34 PM   #3
Illustrious Member
 
kopchoir's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Anfield Theatre of Reality
Experience Points:
30,177, Level: 42
Points: 30,177, Level: 42 Points: 30,177, Level: 42 Points: 30,177, Level: 42
Activity: 1.7%
Activity: 1.7% Activity: 1.7% Activity: 1.7%
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: Gave 5,005, Got 2,311
Posts: 17,118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodzeed View Post
Yeah im really gutted for him earns over 80k week....Dont rate him leighton baines is better imo take him to the world cup with cole if fit
Ah Come on takes balls to not select yourself for a world cup yeah leighton baines is a decent left back but terry is past it IMO and rio has a glass back we used to be strong in defence where now i think its our weakest part of our team
  Quote
Old 25-02-2010, 12:38 PM   #4
Member
 
Louis Reeves's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bournemouth
Experience Points:
2,143, Level: 10
Points: 2,143, Level: 10 Points: 2,143, Level: 10 Points: 2,143, Level: 10
Activity: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Thanks: Gave 55, Got 16
Posts: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodzeed View Post
Yeah im really gutted for him earns over 80k week....Dont rate him leighton baines is better imo take him to the world cup with cole if fit
I don't think the money he is earning even comes into this debate does it? I am gutted for him that he feels he needs to pull out of a World Cup (which is the pinnacle of any players' career) because it could cause distractions and divisions in the squad!

And this is because somebody else was sleeping with HIS long term partner and mother of his child! (Or is it Terry's?)

I really rate Baines also, but I feel that if he hadn't withdrawn from selection he would certainly have been in the World Cup Squad.
  Quote
Old 25-02-2010, 12:38 PM   #5
Prominent Member
 
Bloodzeed's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2009
Experience Points:
3,267, Level: 13
Points: 3,267, Level: 13 Points: 3,267, Level: 13 Points: 3,267, Level: 13
Activity: 0.3%
Activity: 0.3% Activity: 0.3% Activity: 0.3%
Thanks: Gave 510, Got 230
Posts: 3,078
Where is the backbone him and jamie carragher i bet carragher will come out of retirement thinking he will now get in the team...we be fine

Joleon Lescott
Gareth Barry
Cole
Baines

Can all play LB
  Quote
Old 25-02-2010, 12:49 PM   #6
Veteran Member
 
Coffin's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2008
Experience Points:
7,335, Level: 20
Points: 7,335, Level: 20 Points: 7,335, Level: 20 Points: 7,335, Level: 20
Activity: 3.0%
Activity: 3.0% Activity: 3.0% Activity: 3.0%
Thanks: Gave 592, Got 1,117
Posts: 6,741
If he does not feel his head will be right and that will effect his performances then he's done the right thing.

The last thing we want is him to play shocker after shocker and then get lambasted by the fans and media for putting himself forward when he clearly wasn't up to it
  Quote
Old 25-02-2010, 12:51 PM   #7
Illustrious Member
 
kopchoir's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Anfield Theatre of Reality
Experience Points:
30,177, Level: 42
Points: 30,177, Level: 42 Points: 30,177, Level: 42 Points: 30,177, Level: 42
Activity: 1.7%
Activity: 1.7% Activity: 1.7% Activity: 1.7%
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: Gave 5,005, Got 2,311
Posts: 17,118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodzeed View Post
Where is the backbone him and jamie carragher i bet carragher will come out of retirement thinking he will now get in the team...we be fine

Joleon Lescott
Gareth Barry
Cole
Baines

Can all play LB
Carra should of had more england caps as it is but blind england managers and all that capello has been on the blower to carra since he took over he knows a
player when he sees one.

I must be in the minority as i just dont see John Terry as a world class centre half anymore or Rio Ferdinand for that matter as well Both are past it IMO
Its the same as other england teams where the established players get priority why sould they

Milner has had a much better season than Lampard and Gerrard and yet he wont be starting a game

The EPL will finish and the country will all get hyped up over the world cup women drinking pints singing inggerland
Ill be seeing who my team are being linked with and how and if our new stadia is being built
Out in the quarters or the sems on pens with Terry being sent off for dragging an opponent down as he is to slow to catch him
  Quote
Old 25-02-2010, 12:55 PM   #8
Member
 
Louis Reeves's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bournemouth
Experience Points:
2,143, Level: 10
Points: 2,143, Level: 10 Points: 2,143, Level: 10 Points: 2,143, Level: 10
Activity: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Thanks: Gave 55, Got 16
Posts: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by kopchoir View Post
I must be in the minority as i just dont see John Terry as a world class centre half anymore
Agreed!

Too slow!

But then I dont think we have too many options in that area. Carragher has reiterated to Capello that he won't come out of retirement, and i'm still not convinced entirely by Lescott, King or Upson.

If only Woodgate was fit....... (big IF)
  Quote
Old 25-02-2010, 12:56 PM   #9
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Nr. Bury St Edmunds
Experience Points:
6,605, Level: 19
Points: 6,605, Level: 19 Points: 6,605, Level: 19 Points: 6,605, Level: 19
Activity: 0.8%
Activity: 0.8% Activity: 0.8% Activity: 0.8%
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: Gave 158, Got 74
Posts: 1,422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coffin View Post
If he does not feel his head will be right and that will effect his performances then he's done the right thing.

The last thing we want is him to play shocker after shocker and then get lambasted by the fans and media for putting himself forward when he clearly wasn't up to it
He has done the right thing yes like you say if he doesnt feel up to it.

But, he is meant to be a 'professional' footballer if he can't deal with personal pressures then he doesnt deserve to be paid 80k a week whatever he is on or play for his country. Surley he isn't paid that kind of money because of his abilty??

Didn't Sheringham and Cole not ever speak when at Man Utd? But when on the pitch they were true professionals. Terry, Cole, Bridge and whoever else is playing around need to take a good long look at themselves imo.
  Quote
Old 25-02-2010, 12:59 PM   #10
Prominent Member
 
Bloodzeed's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2009
Experience Points:
3,267, Level: 13
Points: 3,267, Level: 13 Points: 3,267, Level: 13 Points: 3,267, Level: 13
Activity: 0.3%
Activity: 0.3% Activity: 0.3% Activity: 0.3%
Thanks: Gave 510, Got 230
Posts: 3,078
Dont care what you say but if king was fit he be in England first 11 all day
  Quote
Old 25-02-2010, 1:02 PM   #11
Distinguished Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Experience Points:
18,261, Level: 32
Points: 18,261, Level: 32 Points: 18,261, Level: 32 Points: 18,261, Level: 32
Activity: 4.1%
Activity: 4.1% Activity: 4.1% Activity: 4.1%
Thanks: Gave 1,224, Got 1,375
Posts: 12,473
Think it's a shame he's took this decision but feelings obviously run deep with matters like this. They could have both ended up crocked in England training so maybe a blessing in disguise, a very sad state of affairs all round.
  Quote
Old 25-02-2010, 1:08 PM   #12
Prominent Member
 
Citizen J's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: England Land
Experience Points:
4,886, Level: 16
Points: 4,886, Level: 16 Points: 4,886, Level: 16 Points: 4,886, Level: 16
Activity: 1.1%
Activity: 1.1% Activity: 1.1% Activity: 1.1%
Blog Entries: 3
Thanks: Gave 482, Got 653
Posts: 4,397
John Terry is a disgrace IMO. Because of his actions Bridge might not have a future England career. Capello should judge the England squad atmosphere and unity next week, if players feel uncomfortable around Terry then he used dropped from the squad until further notice.
  Quote
Old 25-02-2010, 1:21 PM   #13
Illustrious Member
 
kopchoir's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Anfield Theatre of Reality
Experience Points:
30,177, Level: 42
Points: 30,177, Level: 42 Points: 30,177, Level: 42 Points: 30,177, Level: 42
Activity: 1.7%
Activity: 1.7% Activity: 1.7% Activity: 1.7%
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: Gave 5,005, Got 2,311
Posts: 17,118
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelegendofyrag View Post
Didn't Sheringham and Cole not ever speak when at Man Utd? But when on the pitch they were true professionals. Terry, Cole, Bridge and whoever else is playing around need to take a good long look at themselves imo.
Cole and sheringham just didnt get onwere as bridge and terry were pretty good mates and he went and shagged his misses bit different
  Quote
Old 25-02-2010, 1:38 PM   #14
Illustrious Member
 
sdb123's Avatar
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Rushden
Experience Points:
31,232, Level: 43
Points: 31,232, Level: 43 Points: 31,232, Level: 43 Points: 31,232, Level: 43
Activity: 0.3%
Activity: 0.3% Activity: 0.3% Activity: 0.3%
Thanks: Gave 1,578, Got 2,031
Posts: 17,339
Quote:
Originally Posted by kopchoir View Post
Cole and sheringham just didnt get onwere as bridge and terry were pretty good mates and he went and shagged his misses bit different
Not entirely true Si.

What I don't get over the whole situation (regardless of today's decision by Bridge) is that Bridge and his other half had already split up before any of the shenanigans went on. Aside from losing a mate - what exactly has Bridge suffered? I'm probably missing something obvious, but that question has been bugging me for a while now.
  Quote
Thanks from:
thelegendofyrag (25-02-2010)
Old 25-02-2010, 1:39 PM   #15
Illustrious Member
 
sdb123's Avatar
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Rushden
Experience Points:
31,232, Level: 43
Points: 31,232, Level: 43 Points: 31,232, Level: 43 Points: 31,232, Level: 43
Activity: 0.3%
Activity: 0.3% Activity: 0.3% Activity: 0.3%
Thanks: Gave 1,578, Got 2,031
Posts: 17,339
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jows073 View Post
John Terry is a disgrace IMO. Because of his actions Bridge might not have a future England career.
Let's be straight here. Bridge has chosen to effectively end his international career himself, Terry hasn't done that for him.
  Quote
Thanks from:
thelegendofyrag (25-02-2010)
Old 25-02-2010, 1:40 PM   #16
Illustrious Member
 
sdb123's Avatar
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Rushden
Experience Points:
31,232, Level: 43
Points: 31,232, Level: 43 Points: 31,232, Level: 43 Points: 31,232, Level: 43
Activity: 0.3%
Activity: 0.3% Activity: 0.3% Activity: 0.3%
Thanks: Gave 1,578, Got 2,031
Posts: 17,339
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis Reeves View Post
And this is because somebody else was sleeping with HIS long term partner and mother of his child! (Or is it Terry's?).
As above...he'd already split from his other half following his move to Manchester City.
  Quote
Old 25-02-2010, 1:46 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
jimmymac2213's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2005
Experience Points:
3,441, Level: 13
Points: 3,441, Level: 13 Points: 3,441, Level: 13 Points: 3,441, Level: 13
Activity: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Thanks: Gave 62, Got 183
Posts: 1,285
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdb123 View Post
Not entirely true Si.

What I don't get over the whole situation (regardless of today's decision by Bridge) is that Bridge and his other half had already split up before any of the shenanigans went on. Aside from losing a mate - what exactly has Bridge suffered? I'm probably missing something obvious, but that question has been bugging me for a while now.
split or not, she is still the mother of his son so surely that comes into play somewhat in the whole affair
  Quote
Old 25-02-2010, 1:48 PM   #18
Moderator/Reviewer
 
mabo's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2006
Experience Points:
22,414, Level: 36
Points: 22,414, Level: 36 Points: 22,414, Level: 36 Points: 22,414, Level: 36
Activity: 3.4%
Activity: 3.4% Activity: 3.4% Activity: 3.4%
Thanks: Gave 1,145, Got 939
Posts: 6,659
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdb123 View Post
As above...he'd already split from his other half following his move to Manchester City.
I think there is some debate about their status as a couple, as the word "estranged" is often used to describe their situation. Either way, Terry is a plank.
  Quote
Old 25-02-2010, 1:49 PM   #19
Prominent Member
 
Citizen J's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: England Land
Experience Points:
4,886, Level: 16
Points: 4,886, Level: 16 Points: 4,886, Level: 16 Points: 4,886, Level: 16
Activity: 1.1%
Activity: 1.1% Activity: 1.1% Activity: 1.1%
Blog Entries: 3
Thanks: Gave 482, Got 653
Posts: 4,397
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdb123 View Post
Let's be straight here. Bridge has chosen to effectively end his international career himself, Terry hasn't done that for him.
I am of aware if that. If Bridge had decided to continue his career I really fail to see a plausible argument suggesting squad harmony would not have been affected. He is making a big sacrifice, football is a team game and he obviously feels he would not be able to play alongside Terry.

Terry is to blame in this situation, can't see England squad unity being very good in the run up to the World Cup.
  Quote
Old 25-02-2010, 1:55 PM   #20
Distinguished Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Experience Points:
18,261, Level: 32
Points: 18,261, Level: 32 Points: 18,261, Level: 32 Points: 18,261, Level: 32
Activity: 4.1%
Activity: 4.1% Activity: 4.1% Activity: 4.1%
Thanks: Gave 1,224, Got 1,375
Posts: 12,473
Seems a lot of confusion here, from what I can gather she was carrying Terry's child and they decided to get an abortion. I can understand the Chelsea boys on here defending their man, to say though Terry didn't have some form of hand in Bridge's decision is a bit ludicrous.
  Quote
Old 25-02-2010, 1:55 PM   #21
Member
 
Louis Reeves's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bournemouth
Experience Points:
2,143, Level: 10
Points: 2,143, Level: 10 Points: 2,143, Level: 10 Points: 2,143, Level: 10
Activity: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Thanks: Gave 55, Got 16
Posts: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdb123 View Post
As above...he'd already split from his other half following his move to Manchester City.
I think that is debatable, apparently it had been going on for some time! Rumour has it that it was all going on during holidays both couples were on together!
  Quote
Old 25-02-2010, 2:07 PM   #22
Prominent Member
 
mrtbag's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Anywhere I want
Experience Points:
6,577, Level: 19
Points: 6,577, Level: 19 Points: 6,577, Level: 19 Points: 6,577, Level: 19
Activity: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Thanks: Gave 153, Got 337
Posts: 3,250
From what I'm reading here, as long as they were split she was fair game? If any of you split up with your partners, how long is acceptable before your mate can have a go? days? weeks? ,months?
  Quote
Old 25-02-2010, 2:15 PM   #23
Distinguished Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Experience Points:
18,261, Level: 32
Points: 18,261, Level: 32 Points: 18,261, Level: 32 Points: 18,261, Level: 32
Activity: 4.1%
Activity: 4.1% Activity: 4.1% Activity: 4.1%
Thanks: Gave 1,224, Got 1,375
Posts: 12,473
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtbag View Post
From what I'm reading here, as long as they were split she was fair game? If any of you split up with your partners, how long is acceptable before your mate can have a go? days? weeks? ,months?
She shouldn't have been fair game at all as he had a wife and kids at home.
  Quote
Old 25-02-2010, 2:19 PM   #24
Illustrious Member
 
kopchoir's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Anfield Theatre of Reality
Experience Points:
30,177, Level: 42
Points: 30,177, Level: 42 Points: 30,177, Level: 42 Points: 30,177, Level: 42
Activity: 1.7%
Activity: 1.7% Activity: 1.7% Activity: 1.7%
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: Gave 5,005, Got 2,311
Posts: 17,118
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtbag View Post
From what I'm reading here, as long as they were split she was fair game? If any of you split up with your partners, how long is acceptable before your mate can have a go? days? weeks? ,months?
Never with friends im afraid but we are all different with different morals and all that.
Its not just this incident as a footballer i dont think he is as good as people make out and as england captain he should never of been given it with his record of brawling with bouncers with jody morris with drugs within the family to his father fo they year award
  Quote
Old 25-02-2010, 2:44 PM   #25
Illustrious Member
 
sdb123's Avatar
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Rushden
Experience Points:
31,232, Level: 43
Points: 31,232, Level: 43 Points: 31,232, Level: 43 Points: 31,232, Level: 43
Activity: 0.3%
Activity: 0.3% Activity: 0.3% Activity: 0.3%
Thanks: Gave 1,578, Got 2,031
Posts: 17,339
Quote:
Originally Posted by dazza74 View Post
I can understand the Chelsea boys on here defending their man, to say though Terry didn't have some form of hand in Bridge's decision is a bit ludicrous.
I haven't said that.

People will know I'm a Chelsea fan...I'm not defending Terry - he has let a lot of people down and there are obviously going to be some consequences. Bridge has made his decision based on his own thoughts, fair enough....there's still no need to publicly hang Terry IMO.

Last edited by sdb123; 25-02-2010 at 2:46 PM.
  Quote
Old 25-02-2010, 2:47 PM   #26
Illustrious Member
 
sdb123's Avatar
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Rushden
Experience Points:
31,232, Level: 43
Points: 31,232, Level: 43 Points: 31,232, Level: 43 Points: 31,232, Level: 43
Activity: 0.3%
Activity: 0.3% Activity: 0.3% Activity: 0.3%
Thanks: Gave 1,578, Got 2,031
Posts: 17,339
Quote:
Originally Posted by kopchoir View Post
Its not just this incident as a footballer i dont think he is as good as people make out and as england captain he should never of been given it with his record of brawling with bouncers with jody morris with drugs within the family to his father fo they year award
What's that got to do with this situation?

We've had this debate before....there are hardly any whiter than white England internationals, regardless of your club faction.
  Quote
Old 25-02-2010, 2:51 PM   #27
Senior Member
 
benhaha85's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2008
Experience Points:
1,965, Level: 10
Points: 1,965, Level: 10 Points: 1,965, Level: 10 Points: 1,965, Level: 10
Activity: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Thanks: Gave 191, Got 289
Posts: 1,300
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtbag View Post
From what I'm reading here, as long as they were split she was fair game? If any of you split up with your partners, how long is acceptable before your mate can have a go? days? weeks? ,months?
Except Terry has a wife and kids.
  Quote
Old 25-02-2010, 2:54 PM   #28
Ex Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Experience Points:
8,900, Level: 22
Points: 8,900, Level: 22 Points: 8,900, Level: 22 Points: 8,900, Level: 22
Activity: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Thanks: Gave 71, Got 134
Posts: 1,130
bridge needs to grow some balls have it out with terry and get on with doing a job for his country. someone give the tart a slap, he's just mugging himself off even more.
  Quote
Thanks from:
Bloodzeed (25-02-2010), thelegendofyrag (25-02-2010)
Old 25-02-2010, 3:07 PM   #29
Distinguished Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Experience Points:
18,261, Level: 32
Points: 18,261, Level: 32 Points: 18,261, Level: 32 Points: 18,261, Level: 32
Activity: 4.1%
Activity: 4.1% Activity: 4.1% Activity: 4.1%
Thanks: Gave 1,224, Got 1,375
Posts: 12,473
Quote:
Originally Posted by snellfish View Post
bridge needs to grow some balls have it out with terry and get on with doing a job for his country. someone give the tart a slap, he's just mugging himself off even more.
Like something out of a Danny Dyer film. Only tart that needs a slapping is Terry himself.
  Quote
Thanks from:
gken74 (26-02-2010), jonneymendoza (27-02-2010)
Old 25-02-2010, 3:34 PM   #30
Prominent Member
 
mrtbag's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Anywhere I want
Experience Points:
6,577, Level: 19
Points: 6,577, Level: 19 Points: 6,577, Level: 19 Points: 6,577, Level: 19
Activity: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Thanks: Gave 153, Got 337
Posts: 3,250
Quote:
Originally Posted by benhaha85 View Post
Except Terry has a wife and kids.
Please re-read my post and stop wagging your finger. I was clearly asking a question of those who think it's ok. I wasn't giving an oppinion.
  Quote
Post Reply

Powered by  
 Latest popular product prices
Vivotion Sport & Fitness / Fitne... 
1 price
 £69.00 Click to show/hide the offers

Carl Lewis Fitness Sport & Fitne... 
1 price
 £88.00 Click to show/hide the offers

Vivotion Sport & Fitness / Fitne... 
1 price
 £99.00 Click to show/hide the offers

Carl Lewis Fitness Sport & Fitne... 
1 price
 £109.00 Click to show/hide the offers

Vivotion Sport & Fitness / Fitne... 
1 price
 £119.00 Click to show/hide the offers

Body Sculpture Sport & Fitness /... 
1 price
 £139.00 Click to show/hide the offers

York C102 Heritage Upright Cycle 
1 price
 £152.00 Click to show/hide the offers

York Fitness Sport & Fitness / F... 
1 price
 £161.98 Click to show/hide the offers

 Updated February 13th at 8:30am. Prices include delivery.


Thread information and display options
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off