MMA Discussion Thread Part VI
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22-02-2010, 12:01 PM
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| Distinguished Member  | MMA Discussion Thread Part VI Continued from the old thread here; MMA Discussion thread part V Like the Energiser Bunny, we just keep going and going... PS, Copied my previous post into here to make it easier for the inevitable quoting of my "colourful" opinions on Mr Bisping.  (The guy who will shortly adorn many of your avatars, and not in a good way)Plus it repeats my statement that I have gained considerable respect for Bisping's ability as a fighter. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Phheeeeewwwww! It’s tough to be a fan! Usually I watch a fight as an impartial onlooker. I may have one person I’d like to see win the fight, to be proved right in my prediction etc but rarely do I have that kind of football fan support for a particular fighter. Last time I felt that nervous going into a fight was Davis vs Hardy at 99, but Silva vs Bisping was just as bad! Anyway, was going to respond to some of the previous comments individually but I’m tired, (worked til 12 last night and had to watch the fights when I got home, plus I have a suspected dose of potentially fatal man flu coming on. Will try to cover the points in the main review. First, the unseen prelims… Te-Huna defeated Pokrajac by 3rd round TKO Dolloway defeated Reljic by UD, 29-28 Elvis Sinosic injured a shoulder in taining and was unable to make his fight with Haseman, so it was just dropped. Prelims shown on the main card… Lytle defeated Foster by 1st round knee bar I was worried about Lytle in this fight as he seemed to be doing what he has done a lot of recently and swung like a lunatic instead of using technical striking. However it was a beautiful knee bar. Made even more fun for me because we did knee bars and leg locks in training last week! Nasty injury for Foster but yet another bonus night for Lytle. Soszynski defeated Bonner by 3rd round TKO (cut) I did notice the fast attack by Sos, despite Bonner coming out looking for the glove touch. Not sure that he meant it as dirty as it seemed, unlike a few events back when someone offered their hand and then threw a punch when the opponent went to touch. I think he just missed the gesture by Bonner and attacked from the bell. I suspect it was the realisation of his dirty trick that led to his offer and eventual insistence on touching at the start of the 3rd. However what bothered me more about Soszynski’s fair play was at the end of either 1 or 2, Bonner landed a kick in the nuts. Sos grabbed his balls and screwed up his face, then the bell went and he let go and wandered back to his corner as though it had never happened. Fair enough he was going to get a rest but in the same way Koscheck was holding his face, squinting and barely able to see, then just opened it and carried on, I think Sos got a low shot that didn’t really catch but played it up. Either to get a breather or to throw Bonner off his game and/or make him wary of throwing leg kicks. (I feel a bit strange complaining about a man not rubbing his nuts but you get the point) Sportsmanship aside, Sos looked great and Bonner needs to look outside of the UFC. DW may not cut him, but he should make the move himself IMO. His striking defence is non existent and while that may lead to exciting fights, he ain’t going to win too many. Unfortunate that the headbutt ended it and it may even get overturned to a no contest, but I see no need for a replay as Sos was battering him. Bonner troubled him a few times but it was only going 1 way IMO. Fair play to Sos for his sportsmanship at the end, although he should have acknowledged that it was not really his “win” and at least offered a rematch. Main Card Cro-Cop defeated Peroush by 2nd round TKO (cut) Not vintage Cro-Cop by any means, gutted we didn’t see any head kick attempts! However he showed good composure on the ground, good takedown defence and some nasty GnP to cause the cut. It was a bad gash for sure. I’d still like to see Cro-Cop face Rothwell when Ben is fit again, will be a little more interesting now if Cro-Cop gains confidence from this fight. At least he looked motivated and interested, unlike when he fought Dos Santos. Bader defeated Jardine by 3rd round KO Ryan Bader must have been disgusted when Cain Velasquez KO’d Nog, it cost Bader $50k! Sweet KO of Jardine and no grounds for the early stoppage complaints by Jardine. Despite the fact that his arms were limp and his eyes rolling when the ref stopped in, he failed to notice that he had collapsed on top of his own leg, pretty damn painful if you ever do that, the ref had to pull his leg back out from under him! It had moments of becoming a dull fight because Bader was relying on takedown attempts but his power makes the difference. In the same way Hughes was/is a dominant wrestler stood out in his prime because he has great submissions, Bader has that KO power to separate him from the pack of boring lay’n’pray artists. As I said in the preview, I don’t think Jardine will get cut yet, as he has faced so many top 10 fighters in his losing streak, but a fight against Bonner might be a plan. Loser may not get sacked, but should take the hint and quit! Sotiropolous defeated Stevenson by UD (30-27) I was extremely happy to be wrong on my shout for this one. I love to watch Sotiropolous on the ground and I’ve never been a huge fan of Stevenson, (largely due to his stupid nickname and the fact that Rogan uses it all the time, Joe Daddy shoots, Joe Daddy goes for the guillotine etc). Why Joe Rogan, why? Anyway, rant aside, When he came trotting down to the cage grinning like an idiot it seemed clear that as Sotiropolous had suggested, “Daddy” was looking beyond him. Loved the fight itself, GS was sublime on the ground and competent on his feet. True he did look gassed in the third, but he didn’t fight like it. He still stuffed Stevenson’s powerful takedown attempts and controlled the fight. This shoots Sotiropolous right into the mix to fight the likes of Maynard, Florian etc before stepping in with BJ! Maynard and Stevenson are quite similar in terms of size, strength and style so Sotiropolous could certainly beat him. Florian would be tougher as he has better stand up than most LWs and has great BJJ. Silva defeated Bisping by UD, (29-28) Thank God for that… Closer fight than I expected! Let me get this out of the way first, I give a lot of respect to Bisping for his performance. He probably gained more respect from me and other “haters” for a courageous loss than he would have with a dancing jabbing win. Anyway, to the fight. Come on folks, there was nothing wrong with the decision. Bisping took a close first round. Wanderlei took a close second and he dominated the 3rd. He stuffed all Bisping’s takedown attempts in that round, landed more shots and destroyed him at the end. If that fight had been even 2 more seconds longer Bisp would have been out, the ref was ready to step in and Silva had already landed 1 follow up punch after the knock down. However Bisping gave it his all, got a few takedowns, landed some clean strikes and generally made the effort to finish the fight rather than just dance and score. That said I think his takedown attempts were point scoring as he accomplished nothing when on the ground. Regarding his fear of getting hit, I think the point that is being made is that he reacts badly when caught. Yes they are professional fighters and get hit for a living but his reaction and attitude when someone lands a clean shot is almost like he’s thinking “Oh crap here we go again”, like he’s having Hendo flashbacks! Most fighters look annoyed when they get hit with a clean shot, Bisping looks worried. I think that the Hendo KO and (although he won) the Kang knockdown have made Bisping feel that he has a glass chin. I don’t think he has a glass one, but not a granite one either but his own insecurity over it seems to be bothering him. Now my inevitable moaning about our cocky friend... Not just because of his pre-fight waffle etc, that’s par for the course with most fighters. And I know he made the effort at the end to be humble in his interview, but watch him between rounds. He brushes off doctors and corner crew like second class citizens. He snapped at one person for using a wet towel instead of a dry one and had a go at someone else later for a similar issue. It was the same as they way he snapped at his corner at 100 because they told him to stop circling into Hendo’s right (look how that panned out). Yes I know that’s just me finding something else to dislike him for, but hey, I’m just calling it like I see it. The point being, he gained a lot of my respect as a fighter, but not as a person.  Silva above all, looked weird. Skinny little body and big surgically adjusted head stuck on top! He fought fairly well but I think he could have been more aggressive earlier instead of clock watching. Maybe worried that the weight cut would tire him if he went gung ho? I know that on the ESPN “MMA live” show both Florian and the other guy (can’t remember his name) picked Bisping to win due to Wanderlei’s first 185 cut being too much. I actually thought he looked less winded than he did against Franklin. Maybe his cautious gameplan was due to his potential cardio loss. One thing Bisping doesn’t ever do is tire so if Wandy did slow down, Bisping would have swarmed him and probably won. Velasquez defeated Noguiera by 1st round KO Velasquez is another fighter I have new found respect for. I didn’t dislike him before. He was not in the Bisping mould of “hyped to be huge, but really only mid level” type. He was the “hyped to be huge, may or not be”, similar to Carwin. Now he has proved himself for sure, and showed power that makes his failure to finish Kongo even more of a mystery. This means that if the winner of Mir vs Carwin comes out of their fight with any kind of injuries or the fight is a long battle, Velasquez will likely get a title shot first. I’m all in favour of that as I made a long winded argument a while ago that the winner of Nog/Velasquez was more deserving anyway. As for Nog, damn I feel bad for him. He has made a career out of outlasting fighters and having a solid enough chin to take a hammering and survive. That can’t happen anymore as his body just won’t take the punishment. He may take a good shot from a small HW not known for KO power like Couture, but against the beasts of the division like Velasquez, Carwin, Lesnar or even Dos Santos, it just won’t work. Good God, imagine if Lesnar landed a shot like Velasquez did? They’d need a mop for the blood and a bucket for his head! As someone already commented, a few exhibition type fights is all I think Nog has left, as he just seems too slow, too weary and too worn down. I had picked him to win based on my not being convinced about Velasquez and his showing against Couture, but this was a sad and sorry showing from the big man. In summary, a very good event, solid fights, nothing boring apart from maybe a round of Bader vs Jardine and the crowd were great. Bonuses Fight of the Night - Sotiropolous vs Stevenson Submission of the Night – Lytle KO of the Night – Velasquez PS, Stu (and others) I think I get to choose the avatars, although something Lesnar related might be nice. I will get back to you all, you know who you are… Last edited by DrPhil; 22-02-2010 at 12:09 PM. |
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22-02-2010, 12:40 PM
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| Senior Member  | Quote:
 @Jason B re: people still critizing Bisping - My beef with Bisping has always been his attitude not his ability. It peeves me that UK fighters were suddenly being booed following Bisping's gobbyness in the TUF house. That said, he could not have been more gracious in defeat than he was against Silva so I tip my hat to him for that. Also, there was some talk about Bisping trash talking before the fight but in the interview I saw with him, he made a point saying "I'm not going to talk sh*t about Wanderlei because the guy's a legend of the sport". If he was talking trash, I obviously missed it. Last edited by Boris360; 22-02-2010 at 12:43 PM. | |
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22-02-2010, 12:46 PM
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22-02-2010, 12:57 PM
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22-02-2010, 1:17 PM
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| Distinguished Member | Quote:
 Some news...
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22-02-2010, 1:37 PM
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| Senior Member  |
It seems the uneducated and misinformed Aussie Journalists are just as bad as the British ones  'Smell the blood!' The sickening roar for gore |
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22-02-2010, 1:42 PM
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22-02-2010, 1:47 PM
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22-02-2010, 2:09 PM
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..but overall as a fighter Bisping is improving, lossless records mean less in MMA, he's far from washed up and is definately no where near as far as he can go! | |
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22-02-2010, 2:11 PM
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| Senior Member | Quote:
I thought the Aussie Journalists would have said the same thing. Re Carwin Vs Mir, not sure about this one. Carwin does have very heavy hands and could knock out anyone but he does leave himself open. I think against Gonzaga he was tagged and only KO'd Gonzaga because Gonzaga was trying to finish Carwin. Will be interesting though. | |
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22-02-2010, 2:52 PM
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| Senior Member | Quote:
I noticed that Quinton Jackson's technical advice hasn't changed much. Didn't he advise Bisping to "Just Knock him out". He seems to just bark the sort of things that your half senile Grandad might shout from the crowd.
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22-02-2010, 2:54 PM
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| Distinguished Member | Quote:
"He... got... TITTIES!!!" (repeat 38 times) | |
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22-02-2010, 3:46 PM
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22-02-2010, 3:53 PM
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"Mike, MIKE if you want to win you just gotta knock him out" | |
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22-02-2010, 5:14 PM
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| Prominent Member  | Quote:
The main thing that bugs me is the fact Mir already faced Brock a year ago, yet down in LW, Kenny wont be getting another shot any time soon according to Dana, so how is that fair? It'll be Brocks 6th fight and 3 of them against the same guy. This doesn't help fuel peoples opinon that Brock is crap and hasn't fought anyone. Give him some others and let's see if he can beat anyone that comes to him, like 3 of the other 4 champs are doing. | |
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22-02-2010, 5:26 PM
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| Prominent Member | Quote:
If people are gonna write articles about something, at least be informed about the subject before spouting nonsense. I remember reading some woman complaining about when she took her 10 year old kid (roughly) to see The Dark Knight and was appauled by the violence and gore and that it's not suitable for kids of that age. Well Missus, how about checking out the trailer before hand to see what the movie is like? Also, there wasn't even any gore, all the violence, especially the bit where Joker slams the guys head onto the pencil is off screen, it's just your mind telling you that's what happend rather than actually seeing it. | |
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22-02-2010, 7:14 PM
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1 - Mir has done so well that it's hard not to give him the shot. He massacred Nog, same with Kongo and if he beats Carwin too then he has earned it. 2 - The HW division has been very thin, but is starting to look competitive and exciting again. Dos Santos, Velasquez etc are making things interesting but a year ago the UFC HW division was pretty miserable. 3 - Money, money, money. Mir talks trash better than most. He has a decent fan base and can sell a fight. Plus they're 1-1 in the first 2 fights so the money is in the rubber match. | ||
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22-02-2010, 8:00 PM
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22-02-2010, 8:09 PM
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22-02-2010, 8:55 PM
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23-02-2010, 9:07 AM
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23-02-2010, 9:25 AM
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23-02-2010, 11:11 AM
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23-02-2010, 11:19 AM
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23-02-2010, 11:27 AM
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..... George's ground game is excellent and great to watch but is his ground game better than BJ's? Im sure we all agree that BJ would destroy him standing up, so even IF he manages to take BJ down I dont think he will be able to keep him down as he does not have the strength of GSP.BJ just seems to be too much of a complete fighter at lightweight, I know I am a big Penn fan but I cannot think of any flaws in the current BJ Penn - he is top of his game in every department. All the challengers seem to be good at 1 thing in particular and even the 1 thing they are good at, BJ is usually better at it than them. Pretty good situation to be in if your Mr Penn. | |
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