[DrPhil]

Simple question, when is it OK to post un-spoilered results from fights/TUF?

Most of the options in the poll are related to live events, which usually show at 3am in the UK, but take into account TUF episodes too.

[mark88]

For anyone who wishes to bar people from openly discussing the event after it's aired, please could you justify your answer in this thread too.

Just what do you come here to discuss between the time the event has aired and the time you decide to watch it?

I usually don't watch them until Sunday, therefore I don't come here or anywhere else that's likely to spoil the result until I've watched it. I cannot imagine having the opinion that I should be able to read the thread and expect people to not talk about it just because I haven't seen it yet.

[BigStu1972]

I’ve been on this thread since the start and the general consensus has always been not to have any un spoilered talk of a live event until 24 hours later.
However if everyone is aware of the rule change I have no problem with people discussing the results once it has been aired in the UK as I for one do not come into this thread before I have watched the live event.

[DrPhil]

As bigstu has pointed out, the majority of the people who have been around since MMA discussion thread 1, (or the UFC discussion thread as it used to be), have always agreed to wait 24 hours before posting.

At the end of the day it's not that difficult to click the spoiler button and it's not that difficult to show consideration for others.

Most of the time people won't come in before they've watched, but on the odd occasion someone wants to discuss TUF or any other non UFC MMA news, is it that difficult to spoiler your posts?

[mark88]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

it's not that difficult to show consideration for others.

Agree entirely, except I'm saying the people who want everything spoilered are the ones not showing the consideration.

Most of the time people won't come in before they've watched, but on the odd occasion someone wants to discuss TUF or any other non UFC MMA news, is it that difficult to spoiler your posts?

It's not hard to spoiler them, but it's not enjoyable to read when you have to select hidden text just to be able to read it. Event when selected it's white text on light blue background.

Also, you say people come here to discuss TUF, surely they're doing the exact same thing they expect other people not to do? They're coming here the morning after TUF's aired to talk about it, yet they expect people not to do the same with the UFC event??? And TUF is on pretty late as well and clashes with MOTD.

Is it that hard to resist checking the MMA thread until you've watched the event?

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by mark88

Agree entirely, except I'm saying the people who want everything spoilered are the ones not showing the consideration.

We ask only that you and the few who want to discuss, spoiler your comments til Monday morning. You're asking that the majority stay out of the thread entirely. Hardly the same.

Originally Posted by mark88

Also, you say people come here to discuss TUF, surely they're doing the exact same thing they expect other people not to do? They're coming here the morning after TUF's aired to talk about it, yet they expect people not to do the same with the UFC event??? And TUF is on pretty late as well and clashes with MOTD.

Not just referring to the episodes, but the issue of TUF is ongoing, people may still be talking about the previous week or speculating about the next one. Plus in the past TUF was on Thursday or Friday nights so people could discuss freely on Sunday without getting live event spoilers.

[LCR_Dave]

as soon as uk airing is what i voted i for i want to talk about it openly asap and if i forget to spoiler dont want a load of mouth from someone who hasnt watched it,

[BigStu1972]

If it remains 6 in favour and 6 against then we should not change.
It does seem silly that for the sake of clicking on a face saying shoosh for 1 day some people think it is such a big deal.

SpoilerSee its not difficult is it.

[JimmyHart]

Originally Posted by mark88

Just what do you come here to discuss between the time the event has aired and the time you decide to watch it?

TUF. I watched this Saturday night but didn't watch UFC until about 9pm last night. So sometimes I come on to discuss TUF, but haven't seen a live event.

Also, being an MMA thread, some people like Phil discuss Strikeforce, WEC fights and non-fight issues such as contracts (an example recently is Dan Henderson stalling over signing with UFC again).

I voted for 24 hours, because of these reasons and also, TUF doesn't air at the same time everywhere, for example in Ireland with Phil it's Sunday night.

[mark88]

Silly..?

What's silly is people coming here in the few hours between the event ending and the time they watch it, expecting to have a MMA discussion when the only thing MMA fans really want to talk about is the UFC event that just finished the night before.

I'm yet to hear 1 single valid reason as to why events should be spoilered until Monday. The best one so far is that people come here in those few hours to talk about Strikeforce and hear if Fedor has joined the UFC

Fact is, as has been proven over and over again in this thread that you cannot and will not ever prevent people posting spoilers, the "rule" has been in place a long time now and yet each event someone gets upset because someone else spoilt it for them and this same argument happens again.

UFC events are what? once a month. Is it that difficult for people to stay away from MMA sites in the few hours between their event ending and the viewing time of choice?? I do it and not once have I had the result spoilt.

Simples

[JimmyHart]

Originally Posted by mark88

It's not hard to spoiler them, but it's not enjoyable to read when you have to select hidden text just to be able to read it. Event when selected it's white text on light blue background.

That's unbelieveably petty.

Originally Posted by mark88

Also, you say people come here to discuss TUF, surely they're doing the exact same thing they expect other people not to do? They're coming here the morning after TUF's aired to talk about it, yet they expect people not to do the same with the UFC event??? And TUF is on pretty late as well and clashes with MOTD.

I'm not sure what you're actually trying to say here. If you look back a few days, when I have posted my views on TUF fights and episodes on a Sunday, I spoiler them, as do most others. We stick by the same gentlemans agreement for any MMA event or TV show.

When I started posting in here, I wasn't aware of this agreement and I didn't spoiler my posts. But then when I realised it was generally accepted, that's fine with me and I started doing what everyone does. It's perfectly fine if people want to change or if people want to stay the same, but I do think you need to calm down a bit and just discuss it properly instead of throwing childish and sarcastic comments around.

[Crimson Monkee]

I'm fine with people discussing TUF/events after they have aired on UK tv.
I think the main issue is anyone who watches TUF online which is either on a wednesday or thursday, where as the rest of us have to wait till saturday night to watch, I have now taken to avoiding the MMA thread from wednesday until sunday/monday and then I only have a 2 day window to read updates and general opinions before I back away again into my spoiler free environment.

[JimmyHart]

Originally Posted by mark88

Fact is, as has been proven over and over again in this thread that you cannot and will not ever prevent people posting spoilers, the "rule" has been in place a long time now and yet each event someone gets upset because someone else spoilt it for them and this same argument happens again.

Only once has an episode of this seasons TUF been spoiled, all the others have been discussed with spoiler tags.

Originally Posted by mark88

UFC events are what? once a month. Is it that difficult for people to stay away from MMA sites in the few hours between their event ending and the viewing time of choice?? I do it and not once have I had the result spoilt.

UFC isn't MMA. There's more that happens in the space of 1 month that needs to be spoilered, not just UFC events. You seem to be of the opinion that oh Strikeforce is a load of rubbish, why would anyone want to talk about it. You keep going on about football, well that's like saying in a football thread, people wont talk about the Spanish league. Well, why cant they?

[DrPhil]

Edit, figured out how to see the results of who voted what.

[mark88]

Originally Posted by JimmyHart84

UFC isn't MMA. There's more that happens in the space of 1 month that needs to be spoilered, not just UFC events. You seem to be of the opinion that oh Strikeforce is a load of rubbish, why would anyone want to talk about it. You keep going on about football, well that's like saying in a football thread, people wont talk about the Spanish league. Well, why cant they?

Since when did I say Strikeforce was rubbish? you're good at putting words in my mouth.

You're also totally missing the point. I'm glad you made the point about UFC events being roughly once a month, what you're arguing is that in those few hours(once a month) between the UFC Event finishing and the time people watch it is that they want to come here and talk about Strikeforce and other MMA news.

I'm saying to you that if you go back and look at all the talk in this thread that happens on a *sunday after a UFC event*, no one is talking about StrikeForce or some other smaller MMA organisation in those few hours. You have a whole month to talk about other MMA, the day after a UFC event should be full of UFC event banter, not hidden text and debates about whether we should or should not spoiler things.

[Boris360]

Originally Posted by Crimson Monkee

I'm fine with people discussing TUF/events after they have aired on UK tv.
I think the main issue is anyone who watches TUF online which is either on a wednesday or thursday, where as the rest of us have to wait till saturday night to watch, I have now taken to avoiding the MMA thread from wednesday until sunday/monday and then I only have a 2 day window to read updates and general opinions before I back away again into my spoiler free environment.

I watch TUF early. I'm not sure how many others do but I can't remember anyone discussing it before the the UK airing. I think you're on safe ground there.

[DrPhil]

Folks, can I propose a solution, and I'll mention it here and in the spoilers thread...

Each UFC event weekend, (or all major MMA events, whichever...) someone from this thread can create a new thread in the sports forum. Call it "UFC 104 thread" etc. People can comment freely in that thread as much as they like. No other MMA will be discussed there, and on Monday morning, a MOD can simply merge the threads.

Obviously this would require the Mods to agree to do the merge once or twice a month, (UFC/Fight Night etc) but it would solve the problem to everyone's satisfaction.

I understand Mark's point, (although not his methods of persuasion) that people should be free to post when they like, but I also support the view that it is good manners to wait until Monday before posting openly because most people will watch at some point on Sunday afternoon/evening and should be free to visit the MMA thread without spoiling. For example, I usually don't get to watch TUF until Monday, due to the late air time and work. I still want to be able to come here to post news etc without worrying about the TUF result.

Thoughts?

[BigStu1972]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Folks, can I propose a solution, and I'll mention it here and in the spoilers thread...

Each UFC event weekend, (or all major MMA events, whichever...) someone from this thread can create a new thread in the sports forum. Call it "UFC 104 thread" etc. People can comment freely in that thread as much as they like. No other MMA will be discussed there, and on Monday morning, a MOD can simply merge the threads.

Obviously this would require the Mods to agree to do the merge once or twice a month, (UFC/Fight Night etc) but it would solve the problem to everyone's satisfaction.

I understand Mark's point, (although not his methods of persuasion) that people should be free to post when they like, but I also support the view that it is good manners to wait until Monday before posting openly because most people will watch at some point on Sunday afternoon/evening and should be free to visit the MMA thread without spoiling. For example, I usually don't get to watch TUF until Monday, due to the late air time and work. I still want to be able to come here to post news etc without worrying about the TUF result.

Thoughts?

Seems like a perfectly reasonable solution. Of course for some people it may be a real hassle to have to post in two threads

[booyaka]

My 2p for what it's worth is......

I avoid the thread until such time as i have watched the event in question, so either way is fine by me. However it does seem a little daft to some extent that sometimes up to 36 hours after the event we shouldn't be able to talk about it without spoiler tags. Spoiler tags have always been agreed as a gentlemans agreement in the thread and most people have always respected that.

That being said, bear in mind I am quiet neutral with either option and haven't voted as yet, I do think that your attitude of busting into the thread and somewhat throwing your weight around and expecting to suddenly have things your way is a little over the top Mark88. You surely have to respect and consider other people opinions that have stood for a while through 3000/4000 posts within the MMA threads.

I'm not sticking up for anyone/or anything as i think common sense should prevail here and people probably should just be able to talk about events ONCE they have been aired on UK TV.

If people are worried about finding out the results etc, you wouldn't for instance go and check UFC.com or Sherdog for "other" MMA related information as you would know that you are likely to find out the latest UFC results, I think the best option is to allow people to post view/results etc etc so long as it is after the UK airing of the event.

Kind of talked myself into a one side now i guess!

[BigStu1972]

Just an afterthought, TUF is also discussed under TV programmes

[JimmyHart]

I've voted but I don't mind going with whatever is decided. Hell, it's just a forum after all, the method I use to discuss things doesn't really bother me as long as it's a majority decision.

As others have said, Mark, we see where you are coming from and it's a valid point, but you really need to cool down a bit and stop throwing your weight around and puffing your chest out.

[mark88]

Originally Posted by booyaka

That being said, bear in mind I am quiet neutral with either option and haven't voted as yet, I do think that your attitude of busting into the thread and somewhat throwing your weight around and expecting to suddenly have things your way is a little over the top Mark88. You surely have to respect and consider other people opinions that have stood for a while through 3000/4000 posts within the MMA threads.

Like I said already, I haven't just "landed here" and am not some newb, I explained why I don't post that often in this thread. I have not swore, insulted or directed anything at anyone personally yet I have been accused of deliberately spoiling the result, being a strikeforce hater, a newb, selfish, verbal attacker and had BLUE text aimed at me.

I ask you to go read my posts again and tell me what I've done other than give my opinion. I expect nothing, I'm not forcing anything on anyone and my opinion is just that, my own. If you don't like it, disagree with me but don't put words into my mouth and make me out to be some troll who's here to "disrespect Dr Phil" and have things my own way as others have done.

Just remember that I don't watch events until sunday either.

[JimmyHart]

Originally Posted by mark88

I'm yet to hear 1 single valid reason as to why events should be spoilered until Monday. The best one so far is that people come here in those few hours to talk about Strikeforce and hear if Fedor has joined the UFC

Originally Posted by mark88

Since when did I say Strikeforce was rubbish? you're good at putting words in my mouth.

If a cheesy grin icon and saying you're yet to hear a valid reason and "the best one so far" doesn't imply you think Strikeforce and other reasons are stupid, then I don't know what does. You're telling me to re-read previous posts, I think you should read your own.

[mark88]

I don't think they are stupid...you're missing the point which I tried(and failed obviously) to explain earlier.

Yea, people come here to discuss those things. But are they discussing them in the few hours on the 1 sunday a month after a UFC Event has just finished? No.

That's my point. We have a whole month to talk about Fedor and Strikeforce.

Surely you're asking for trouble coming here to find Strikeforce discussion in the few hours after UFC XXX just ended.

I struggle to figure out why anyone would do such a thing. Why would you check any MMA source the day after a UFC event if you know for sure you do not want to know the result.

If the Monday rule applies, then it should apply to TUF as well, which means here on a sunday there's no unspoilered TUF and UFC event talk allowed. I find this to be absolutely ridiculous given the title of the thread. Everyone will be reading blank posts and everyone else who doesn't know the result will be talking about....strikeforce and other mma??

The reality is more like someone will spoil it, someone else will get upset and then it's a discussion about whether spoilers should be used or not.

[JimmyHart]

Mark, it does apply to TUF as well. As I've already said, read mine and others comments about TUF episodes, they are spoilered. You're trying to argue your point by assuming things and those assumptions are wrong. Like we have all said, we don't mind you having your opinion, just discuss it properly.

As for asking for trouble and no one does it, yes it's not often that other things are discussed the day after a UFC event, but why is it asking for trouble? Why do you have such a problem with people discussing things other than UFC after a UFC event. What if someone hasn't seen TUF or WEC or whatever from the week before? They should be perfectly within thier rights to come and talk about it if they want to, regardless of what day it is.

As for not understanding why people would come here after a major event. I don't go on UFC.com or other sites after an event, but I come here because there's an agreement it will be spoilered. As I've said, which you ignored, if the rule is changed so we can talk openly, I'll just avoid coming here.

[booyaka]

Originally Posted by mark88

Like I said already, I haven't just "landed here" and am not some newb, I explained why I don't post that often in this thread. I have not swore, insulted or directed anything at anyone personally yet I have been accused of deliberately spoiling the result, being a strikeforce hater, a newb, selfish, verbal attacker and had BLUE text aimed at me.

I ask you to go read my posts again and tell me what I've done other than give my opinion. I expect nothing, I'm not forcing anything on anyone and my opinion is just that, my own. If you don't like it, disagree with me but don't put words into my mouth and make me out to be some troll who's here to "disrespect Dr Phil" and have things my own way as others have done.

Just remember that I don't watch events until sunday either.

Just as you have asked me to read your posts, i will ask you to re-read mine.

I did not state the you are a newb, nor did i say you have swore, insulted or directed anything at anyone personally, Nor have I accused you of deliberately spoiling the result, being a strikeforce hater, a newb, selfish, verbal attacker and had BLUE text aimed at you!!

I merely stated that there has been 3000/4000 posts with the status quo being maintained (i.e Monday morning before full discussions ensue) so you can surely understand that people maybe have their own opinion to allow things to continue in that vain.

[DrPhil]

Folks this is all getting a bit daft. I'm not saying Mark has disrespected me! This ain't the mafia, otherwise I'd send the boys round. And if this goes the same way as DrPhil vs GAD, then I'm going with Dr Phil by TKO in the second round due to blue text choke...

Mark, you're not a newb and you're right, you did not directly insult anyone or use bad language. However this is a very laid back and relaxed place so coming in when most people don't know you and saying;

Originally Posted by mark88

I find it annoying because it's common sense gone mad and extremely selfish.

and other similar comment, is only going to get people's backs up.

You have a valid point and it seems from the poll that most people agree with you. But look at the discussions today and then who voted what way on the poll? Some of the people who have given you the most grief for your attitude actually agree with your spoiler theory.

Everyone needs to chill a bit. It looks like the rules will change due to the results of the poll. It's open for a week or so but it's 10-8 last time I looked.

Can't we all just get along?

[mark88]

Originally Posted by booyaka

Just as you have asked me to read your posts, i will ask you to re-read mine.

I did not state the you are a newb, nor did i say you have swore, insulted or directed anything at anyone personally, Nor have I accused you of deliberately spoiling the result, being a strikeforce hater, a newb, selfish, verbal attacker and had BLUE text aimed at you!!

I know. I said I had been accused of it, not by you.

[Boris360]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I still want to be able to come here to post news etc without worrying about the TUF result.

Thoughts?

I'm all for whichever option stops bickering. I only ever visited Sherdog once and abandoned because of people shouting at each other. That's why I voted for the option to discuss without spoilers. It means that this issue will disappear. I too, don't visit the thread until I've watched the event.

Re the separate thread idea, that'd mean starting a temporary TUF thread each week along with any additional UFC thread? That might be a bit messy and you know what, I still think people will post stuff in the main thread unspoiled I can see it now!

[mark88]

Originally Posted by JimmyHart84

They should be perfectly within thier rights to come and talk about it if they want to, regardless of what day it is.

I think you just summed up my whole argument there.

Thank you