[Officer M168]

Time for Rio to give up football - Its seems this season and during the summer months Rio started some out of football projects (producer for a gangster film, Restaurants & generally flouting brand "Rio"). This seems to have over taken his football as this season he has been terrible and i feel when the football season starts that stuff takes a back seat.
There where reports early on in the season that through the grapevine he was looking at a move away from Utd to another country as his name & brand could be flouted to a new worldwide audience.

Don't Play Vidic in Liverpool games - I like Vidic but again this season he's not been in his best form, but in the Liverpool games he seems to magically turn into Titus Bramble.

Nani - Not fit to wear a United top. Cant hit a ball first time, 1st touch is terrible 90% of the time, and after 3 long season in the english premier league hasn't caught on that he needs longer studs as the simplest turn ends up with him on his arse.

Valencia - A powerfull shot & speed..................... Thats all he has to his game.

Carrick & Scholes - can't play counter attacking football. I know Utd play a patient build up type of football but there where times where we had Liverpool on the back foot but whenever the ball was played to these two in the midfield they played a short one touch pass back to the defenders.

The Ref - Never give a big game like this as a refs 1st game.

• Bottled out of giving a Cara a red card for very much a last man foul.

• Bottled out of giving Vidic a straight red card for his last man foul but instead gave him a yellow as he knew it was still a sending off but also covered his arse on the Cara situation.

• How Lucas left Anfield without a yellow card.

• What was Berbatov given a yellow for ?

• There was an incident where Giggs was in the box going up for a header and got a nudge in the back but nothing happened.Andy Gray pointed out that if it was outside the box he'd have got a foul for it. Then not less then 1 min later a Utd player nudges a Liverpool player in the back just outside the box and the ref deemed this a foul.Now i have respect for refs and i agree they can't see everything and sometimes get things wrong.But replays show he was in a good position for both and its inconsistency like this that drives me up the wall.

Rant over.
Utd didn't deserve to win but Liverpool wasn't brilliant either.

[jace22]

in all fairness the ref let united get away with alot to for instance
reina constantley being obstructing by united players when trying to get the ball back in play, on one occasion he was even brought down by the utd players. also the sly punch from vidic to torres didn't get so much as a talking to.

dont you just love utd players when their losing they constantly goed the ref into booking the other teams.

all in all utd were outplayed, outclassed and well and truly butt whipped

[Officer M168]

Didn't know it was a foul to be in front of the goal keeper. if he trys to throw or kick it and then you move on purpose into it then its obstruction.

Pepe walked into Vidic

I honestly didn't see Vidic punch Torres so have no idea what your going on about.
Well i dont like it when players rally round the ref but the ref has to expect it when he clear booked Evra for two fouls. He really made it clear as he pointed to both areas.
The rallying only started when Lucas did his 2nd but got nothing. Which then becomes the refs problem as he has to then book everyone who has committed two fouls.

[DrWise]

i have to agree with your points Officer M168

[jimmymac2213]

The Ref - Never give a big game like this as a refs 1st game.

could you clarify that one a bit for me? All ref's who have done this big match will eventually have to do it for teh first time, its not like he hasn't been a referee in the top flight for a while now

[thelegendofyrag]

Originally Posted by jimmymac2213

could you clarify that one a bit for me? All ref's who have done this big match will eventually have to do it for teh first time, its not like he hasn't been a referee in the top flight for a while now

Exactly...tbh he wasnt that bad. They all make mistakes they are human. The ref. imo in the Arsenal game made a few mistakes. If Utd had nicked it the ref wouldnt get a mention

[fcz]

Originally Posted by jace22

outclassed

if that performance was liverpool outclassing another prem league team then they're in more trouble than i thought.

todays result was a cert with liverpools last results and they deserved it. they wanted it more, chased down and didn't let united play. but i wouldn't go as far as saying they outclassed united. its still october in a long season so the result doesn't really matter in league terms.

didn't see the punch to torres that someone has mentioned and don't remember any of the commentary team mentioning it either.

as far as the ref goes, he bottled it big time. cara was last man in a blatant professional foul. should've walked. the berbatov booking was a mystery. to be fair i thought vidic's 1st yellow was harsh too, although he shoud've had a straight red instead of 2nd yellow so that doesn't matter.

it was the perfect game for liverpool after losing four on the trot. united were awful tho, and they're def missing a top class attacking midfielder.

[abdus]

Ngog the frog scoring in Fergie time

[Ultima]

I didn't see the game but watched the highlights. I though Carra and Vidic could easily have got straight reds.

Listening to reports it seems that Liverpool played reasonably well but Utd were terrible. Chelsea for the title anyone?

[Coffin]

Originally Posted by Officer M168

Utd didn't deserve to win but Liverpool wasn't brilliant either.

I always find remarks like that mildly amusing; when one team scores two perfectly good goals and the other has no reply

And yeah, Carragher should of been sent off

[thelegendofyrag]

Carragher one was debatable for me. Owen was going away from goal.

As for Vidic it was on the half way line so a long way to goal with a couple of players who could have caught up to cover so i think a booking was just.

[Coffin]

Ah football...amazing how different opinions vary so much!

Carragher deliberately takes him down, a professional foul I think it's known as. You could argue his body movement is not directly towards the goal but for him to be taken down in such way is cynical, completely deliberate and a straight red in my eyes!

And to claim Vidic's 2nd yellow is barely a yellow is baffling. Again, another deliberate foul with obvious intent. Unquestionably a yellow card and another 25 yards closer to goal it would have been a straight red

[dazza74]

I sat and watched the game yesterday, the difference for me was Liverpool had arguably the best striker in the world, this individual's moment of brilliance won the game. We can argue the toss all we like, but it's goals that win games.

I think my 3 month old Niece might be a Liverpool fan now. She only stopped crying once the ref blew the final whistle

[QuietRiot1983]

I love how people still use 'he was last man' to try and justify a sending off. The rules don't mention 'last man' at all, only a 'clear goalscoring opporunity', which is why Vidic's second was only a yellow.

Personally, I thought Owen was pulling Carragher's arms off, which made him fall onto his legs.

[ODP]

Originally Posted by Officer M168

Time for Rio to give up football - Its seems this season and during the summer months Rio started some out of football projects (producer for a gangster film, Restaurants & generally flouting brand "Rio"). This seems to have over taken his football as this season he has been terrible and i feel when the football season starts that stuff takes a back seat.
There where reports early on in the season that through the grapevine he was looking at a move away from Utd to another country as his name & brand could be flouted to a new worldwide audience.

Don't Play Vidic in Liverpool games - I like Vidic but again this season he's not been in his best form, but in the Liverpool games he seems to magically turn into Titus Bramble.

Nani - Not fit to wear a United top. Cant hit a ball first time, 1st touch is terrible 90% of the time, and after 3 long season in the english premier league hasn't caught on that he needs longer studs as the simplest turn ends up with him on his arse.

Valencia - A powerfull shot & speed..................... Thats all he has to his game.

Carrick & Scholes - can't play counter attacking football. I know Utd play a patient build up type of football but there where times where we had Liverpool on the back foot but whenever the ball was played to these two in the midfield they played a short one touch pass back to the defenders.

The Ref - Never give a big game like this as a refs 1st game.

• Bottled out of giving a Cara a red card for very much a last man foul.

• Bottled out of giving Vidic a straight red card for his last man foul but instead gave him a yellow as he knew it was still a sending off but also covered his arse on the Cara situation.

• How Lucas left Anfield without a yellow card.

• What was Berbatov given a yellow for ?

• There was an incident where Giggs was in the box going up for a header and got a nudge in the back but nothing happened.Andy Gray pointed out that if it was outside the box he'd have got a foul for it. Then not less then 1 min later a Utd player nudges a Liverpool player in the back just outside the box and the ref deemed this a foul.Now i have respect for refs and i agree they can't see everything and sometimes get things wrong.But replays show he was in a good position for both and its inconsistency like this that drives me up the wall.

Rant over.
Utd didn't deserve to win but Liverpool wasn't brilliant either.

there was absolutely nout wrong with the ref, one or two dodgy decisions but carras wasnt a sending off imo as it wasnt a goalscoring oppurtunity and vidic was sent off anyway and if he had no yellow i believe he would have gone. Manure fans as usual moaning, needing to jusify losing. cant accept being beaten by the better team.

[Donnacha]

I was at the game yesterday with my brother who is a Utd fan. While I was singing my lungs out he unfortunately had to remain very quiet! But he really enjoyed the atmosphere, the niggles, the flashes of skill (Torres & Berbatov), the abuse, the one liners from the crowd etc...

Personally from the go it looked like Utd would've been happy with a point. But its probably the fact that they have such confidence and conviction in their play that they don't have to push as hard, they know they'll get a chance. They did...but missed !

Liverpool and the stadium were well up for this one...and its about time too. The place was rocking which it hasn't all season. Lucas played well, Benayoun was very good, Masch was back to his monster best and the 2 CB's withstood everything thrown at them. Aurelio was also very good.

Should Carra have walked? I don't know...at least the ref was consistent. You can't say that Owen was denied a goalscoring chance as he was not running directly on goal, and Agger would have got back. However Carra did haul him down, but Owen helped by ensuring he had hold of Carra's arm (from the Shearer school of trickery). That's why Carra was very annoyed at getting booked as he felt he was being hauled down! BUT, I've seen them given and if it was at OT he could easily have walked.

Berbatov has a class touch and skill, but he's just not a team player. Rooney works very hard and takes losing to the 'Pool personally. I wasn't happy with the abuse that Michael Owen got and I didn't partake in it. The service he gave us and the games he won us deserved better, and I understand why he went to Utd...in fairness who wouldn't if your career had dipped so much that you were thrown a lifeline by such a big club.

A really enjoyable game, that looked like it was heading for 0-0 until El Nino struck!....if we go lose to Fulham it will all have been for nothing!

[daniel_owen_uk]

Originally Posted by QuietRiot1983

I love how people still use 'he was last man' to try and justify a sending off. The rules don't mention 'last man' at all, only a 'clear goalscoring opporunity', which is why Vidic's second was only a yellow.

Generally if you get past the last man..... you have a clear goalscoring opportunity.

Coming from it as a liverpool fan I though JC was a very lucky man, he could have received a straight red when Rooney span him on the half way line.

But his foul on owen was a straight red offence.

That said, how many times do we see the crowds influence on refs at Old Trafford?

This is why you have a home and an away game.

[JimmyHart]

Originally Posted by Officer M168

Pepe walked into Vidic

haha, pardon? Care to enlighten me how you came to that conclusion? Reina run and threw the ball out, vidic walking into the side of him then grabbing his face on the floor, even though Reina didn't even touch his face.

Originally Posted by Officer M168

Well i dont like it when players rally round the ref but the ref has to expect it when he clear booked Evra for two fouls. He really made it clear as he pointed to both areas.

Rubbish. The ref should not be hounded, regardless of what happens. Football needs to take a leaf out of Rugby's book. It's not ok when a couple of people deem it's ok, that's the underlying issue.

[Citizen J]

Originally Posted by Ultima

Listening to reports it seems that Liverpool played reasonably well but Utd were terrible.

I agree United were extremly poor and played as if they waiting for 1 0-0 draw the whole game.

Referee didn't have a good game IMO. Far too inconsistent for both teams and when that happens it just causes the players to get agigated unnecessarily. Someone like Howard Webb would have been a better bet.

In regards to Rio Ferdinard, I think people should be grateful he's not England captain. Remember when Capello took over there was serious talk of him being given them armband. Imagine if he had been handed the captancy - with his recent performances the media would have been putting pressure on him to drop the capatancy before the World Cup, another distraction the England team wouldn't need. Hopefully he improves because he is playing the worst I have seen him for a long time.

[QuietRiot1983]

Originally Posted by daniel_owen_uk

Generally if you get past the last man..... you have a clear goalscoring opportunity.

Not always though, which is why we have confusion with these rules that are open to interpretation by someone who has never played the game. If the rules did say last man, it would be more clear cut...but we'd have nothing to debate inbetween games! And Fergie would be quieter...

[ste v p]

Originally Posted by JimmyHart84

Rubbish. The ref should not be hounded, regardless of what happens. Football needs to take a leaf out of Rugby's book. It's not ok when a couple of people deem it's ok, that's the underlying issue.

Agreed, the ref should not be hounded. Ever.

The game was a good one for the neutral. Lucas was lucky to escape booking, not for any real incident, just persistent offending. The Liverpool centre mids really got amonst United and I think it worked to put them off their game. Jamie Redknapp was right after the game when he said United missed Fletcher (and Hargreaves for that matter).

How Carragher stayed on the pitch is a mystery. Had he not taken Owen out, he would have been through on goal and the fairytale ending would have been an equaliser from an ex-Red. The "tackle" was worthy of Jonny Wilkinson.

However, all in all, I think the result was fair. Man U will have better days and Liverpool seemed to "dog out" the win. Torres is classy and that finish was superb. He's stronger than he looks and deserves credit for staying on his feet when it looked like he could have gone down (and might have in days gone by) under Ferdinand's pressure.

[JimmyHart]

Originally Posted by ste1000

Agreed, the ref should not be hounded. Ever.

The game was a good one for the neutral. Lucas was lucky to escape booking, not for any real incident, just persistent offending. The Liverpool centre mids really got amonst United and I think it worked to put them off their game. Jamie Redknapp was right after the game when he said United missed Fletcher (and Hargreaves for that matter).

How Carragher stayed on the pitch is a mystery. Had he not taken Owen out, he would have been through on goal and the fairytale ending would have been an equaliser from an ex-Red. The "tackle" was worthy of Jonny Wilkinson.

However, all in all, I think the result was fair. Man U will have better days and Liverpool seemed to "dog out" the win. Torres is classy and that finish was superb. He's stronger than he looks and deserves credit for staying on his feet when it looked like he could have gone down (and might have in days gone by) under Ferdinand's pressure.

I agree with a lot of your points. Carra I'm torn on, there's no doubt it was a yellow, but a red? Very very possibly, but if this had happend, Vidic deserved a red too. OK, Kuyt was nowhere near the box, but people saying Utd had people fast enough to get back, that's not a valid point at all in my opinion, how does the ref know how fast each player is? Carra may have been lucky, but the ref was consistent in my eyes.

Lucas - agreed.

As for the goal, I cant say much more than you, it blew me away. OK, being a Liverpool fan, I'm obviously biased in how good I thought it was, but to score while being completely off balance was an excellent goal. Also as you said, showed some class in not falling down like he had been shot.

As for the ref being hounded, I know you quoted me, but just to add, it sets a bad precedent if people start it again, because where will it stop? I'm all for the captain going up and questioning the decision, but only the captain, no one else.

[sniffer66]

Originally Posted by JimmyHart84

As for the ref being hounded, I know you quoted me, but just to add, it sets a bad precedent if people start it again, because where will it stop? I'm all for the captain going up and questioning the decision, but only the captain, no one else.

Its so easily fixed as well. I'm the ref, you hound me or argue directly in my face, I book you. You carry on or do it again, its another card and you're off. Would take about a week to stop it everywhere if all refs took the same approach.
First few teams would lose a few players and everyone would have to stop doing it

Ungentlemanly Conduct would cover it under current rules

[JimmyHart]

Originally Posted by sniffer66

Its so easily fixed as well. I'm the ref, you hound me or argue directly in my face, I book you. You carry on or do it again, its another card and you're off. Would take about a week to stop it everywhere if all refs took the same approach.
First few teams would lose a few players and everyone would have to stop doing it

Ungentlemanly Conduct would cover it under current rules

Good point. The problem is though, most of the refs wont have the man-bits to do that.

[sniffer66]

Originally Posted by JimmyHart84

Good point. The problem is though, most of the refs wont have the man-bits to do that.

You'd need a global directive from a non-corrupt, well run governing body like FIF...

Oh ******** !

[daniel_owen_uk]

Originally Posted by QuietRiot1983

Not always though, which is why we have confusion with these rules that are open to interpretation by someone who has never played the game. If the rules did say last man, it would be more clear cut...but we'd have nothing to debate inbetween games! And Fergie would be quieter...

Sorry but as someone that has played the game all my life I find that laughable.

If the rules said last man, then what about if someone chops you down despite someone being on the goal line? Clearly you have a great chance to score, but no sending off?

The "Last man" is used to mean the last man between you and the goal, excluding the keeper.

I see no issue with saying if this man brings you down, then you would have had a clear goal scoring opportunity, but you can still have a clear scoring opportunity denied without it being by the last man.

[minniepk17]

From an LFC point of view, I'm delighted with the result. Torres was awesome, as was Yossi and even Lucas played well.

As for Man U, I just didn’t think they were at the races. Rooney gave his all as he does every match – shame the same can’t be said for his team mates, Berbatov in particular. As for Vidic, I am surprised it took so long for him to receive his two yellow cards. He kicked Torres up and down all afternoon and should have given away a penalty in the second half- he hauled Torres down inside the box, which the ref missed in my opinion.

I'm not Owen's biggest fan, not because he left Liverpool or even that he signed for United (let's face it, if Sir Alex called you up and said "Fancy playing for Man U" there are not too many of us that was say NO, no matter what team we support) but more because he jumped ship in 2005. If he had just given it a little longer he would now be the proud owner of a champions league winners medal. All that said I think our fans could have shown more class and either done nothing when he came on or applauded him for past service.

Anyway, we got the result that we needed and with a bit of luck we'll be able to put together a decent run.

And I would agree, this could be the most open season in yrs which can only add to the excitement / stress levels

[thesilverfox]

Originally Posted by sniffer66

Its so easily fixed as well. I'm the ref, you hound me or argue directly in my face, I book you. You carry on or do it again, its another card and you're off. Would take about a week to stop it everywhere if all refs took the same approach.
First few teams would lose a few players and everyone would have to stop doing it

Ungentlemanly Conduct would cover it under current rules

I'm a qualified FA referee and I always approach the team captains 5 mins before kick-off to explain a few ground rules, by bringing them together over to one side of the playing field. It's then their responsibility to relay to their team-mates.

1. Backchat is a booking for all players.
2. You as captains can deal with any issues your team has - I don't want other players hounding me and guilty parties will be booked.
3. Excessive swearing will be dealt with (there really is no need for 90% of it)
4. My decision is final.

Usually, teams respect this, but a few try it on. As soon as a yellow card comes out, people realise very quickly you mean business - especially as red cards in these leagues result in fines - and I always make a point of reporting them.

It's a shame then that the premier league is quilty of these simple rules being ignored all the time - it's little wonder that most referees new to the game never pursue it any further than the basic level - nobody has any respect left for the game.

[Steven]

That is great but I suspect you have never refereed at Premiership level because I have never seen such like carried out by either playing staff or referee

I think the only referee in recent memory that could exert any degree of real control was Collina

[minniepk17]

Originally Posted by LFC_SL

That is great but I suspect you have never refereed at Premiership level because I have never seen such like carried out by either playing staff or referee

I think the only referee in recent memory that could exert any degree of real control was Collina

That may well be the case, but the previous poster is right. Refs need to be stronger and a week of yellows and reds would cut the behaviour out and quickly. Don't get me wrong this type of action would upset a lot of managers, players and fans but it would go a long way to stopping overpaid grown men from throwing their toys out of their collective prams every time a ref has a word and would certainly make them think twice before disrespecting a ref.