[RMCF]

Having watched the 2 nights 'action' from the start of this season's CL all I can say is its reaffirming my suspicion that the competition is dying as TV entertainment.

Nearly all of the games were pretty dire, yet the 'big' teams still won as expected, even by playing awful.

I did welcome UEFAs decision to try to introduce more champions into it this season, but most of these teams look like they belong in the Europa League at best. And thats not forgeting how average a lot of the 'big' teams look.

So many people I have spoken to about this weeks action agree that the competition doesn't start until early March next year, and all this nonsense provides no real shocks and is just a chance to bring in some TV money. But the fans will soon tire of watching rubbish. You already see empty stadiums in nearly every game.

I now find the national leagues more entertaining.

PS I hope you all don't think I'm only slagging of the CL as Madrid have got knocked out in the last 16 for 5 years running I watched their game v Zurich, and for a 7 goal game it was very average entertainment.

[SHATNERSTACTIC]

Yeah it's not been great has it... The only suprising result for me was Rangers picking up a draw. The group stage seems to have become a formality for the biggest teams, it's just too predictable to get excited about. The Arsenal tie wasn't bad but can't say it was edge of the seat stuff or bestowed by skill. And how the ref didn't spot the handball I'll never know...

[Officer M168]

Get rid of seeding & include champions only!

[sdb123]

It's the same every season....I only really enjoy it when the group stages are out of the way.

[Coffin]

Originally Posted by RMCF

Nearly all of the games were pretty dire, yet the 'big' teams still won as expected, even by playing awful.

Err..the first round of games are rarely exciting.

I love the CL!

[Nik555]

Originally Posted by Officer M168

Get rid of seeding & include champions only!

Like it used to be. Dont know why they call it Champions League

Nik

[dazza74]

Doesn't do much for me until you get to the knockout stages. I don't know what the alternative is though either. It's not practical really to cut the amount of groups down to 4 with 8 teams in each because how would the clubs fit in all the extra games. If you do away with the seeding you could end up with nobody wanting to watch the later stage games if to many big clubs get knocked out. How many teams can make it the quarter and semi's of the world cup if they get the luck of the draw.

Does make me wonder though whether once you get outside the English, French, German, Italian, Spanish & Portugese leagues whether the teams do have enough quality to claim a place in this tournament. Has anyone outside of these nations ever made it to the semi's in the champions league for example.

We could surely argue with the competitiveness of our league that a top 6 qualification from the EPL wouldn't be unreasonable I feel currently.

[BlackCountryBob]

Originally Posted by dazza74

Does make me wonder though whether once you get outside the English, French, German, Italian, Spanish & Portugese leagues whether the teams do have enough quality to claim a place in this tournament. Has anyone outside of these nations ever made it to the semi's in the champions league for example.

Ajax, PSV, Red Star Belgrade, Dynamo Kyev and Panathaikos have all made the semis since 1992 but the problem is that once these teams start to do well (much the same for smaller teams in big leagues like Sevilla, Villareal and Bayer Leverkusen) then the traditional power clubs step in and buy their best players leaving them back where they started.

The groups are really little more than an earner, a guaranteed income for the big clubs. That said, there are sometimes some good matches but it seems that the English clubs in particular have been able to in the past few years transfer the premier league skill of winning with an understrength team while not playing well, such is the gulf in class (read wealth) between the best in England and Spain and the rest of Europe.

[DJACID]

i still love it,
but for me it gets even more exciting once the teams are into knockout stage.....

[JohnG]

Something I've noticed about the matches involving English teams playing at home is that the atmosphere was none existent compared to the ones at foreign grounds. The Chelsea game sounded like a training session to me and the Everton game wasn't much better. I couldn't watch the Chelsea game due to the lack of atmospherel, compare that to the game at Besiktas and the difference was startling.

[dazza74]

Originally Posted by JohnG

Something I've noticed about the matches involving English teams playing at home is that the atmosphere was none existent compared to the ones at foreign grounds. The Chelsea game sounded like a training session to me and the Everton game wasn't much better. I couldn't watch the Chelsea game due to the lack of atmospherel, compare that to the game at Besiktas and the difference was startling.

Not sure whether they still do it but Arsenal season tickets used to include the champions league games as well. Always thought this was a great idea as your guaranteeing attendance to these games. I think you also get the FA cup games just not the carling cup.

[** Verve **]

Keep the group stages, do away with the seeding altogether so that it is a completely random draw.

Yeah you might get some groups full of so-called smaller teams, but imagine a group with 4 top teams in. You can't say it wouldn't be exciting if there was a group containing Liverpool, Man Utd, Barca and Real Madrid

[sdb123]

Originally Posted by JohnG

Something I've noticed about the matches involving English teams playing at home is that the atmosphere was none existent compared to the ones at foreign grounds. The Chelsea game sounded like a training session to me and the Everton game wasn't much better. I couldn't watch the Chelsea game due to the lack of atmospherel, compare that to the game at Besiktas and the difference was startling.

Any atmosphere is non-existant compared to that in top-flight Turkish football.

[JohnG]

Originally Posted by sdb123

Any atmosphere is non-existant compared to that in top-flight Turkish football.

True, but it was a much better atmosphere from the home fans in the Arsenal game as well, I think our home matches in Europe are just boring crowd wise these days - unless it's some kind of grudge match or a top team. The only real singing I heard at Everton was from the away fans, you wouldn't have got that in Athens!

[Officer M168]

Only seed the champions & winner from last tournament then !
So the Champions can't be together in the 1st round. But you can be put with a nation of the same.
Or 1st do a 2 leg knock out until there are enough teams to fill 4 leagues of 4 then play each other home and away. the winners of the 4 leagues play each other in a round robin to find the two finalist ?

[BlackCountryBob]

Originally Posted by Officer M168

Only seed the champions & winner from last tournament then !
So the Champions can't be together in the 1st round. But you can be put with a nation of the same.
Or 1st do a 2 leg knock out until there are enough teams to fill 4 leagues of 4 then play each other home and away. the winners of the 4 leagues play each other in a round robin to find the two finalist ?

That right there is called the trigger for a European Super League.

[RMCF]

Originally Posted by Coffin

Err..the first round of games are rarely exciting.

I love the CL!

So you love a competition that is rarely exciting up until late Feb??

Talk about celebrating averageness. Don't understand your logic.

Anyway, I think what would help the CL is if, in the knockout section in MArch, they did away with any seeding or rules that stopped you getting a team you'd played before or from your own country. That would help, but still doesn't answer the whole 'Sept to Feb is boring' argument

No points for a 0-0 in the groups would help a lot I think. You must score at least 1 goal to deserve a point. That would liven up the groups ok, and Barca and Inter would not have been able to put on that yawnfest the other night.

And also, I think Euro football ingeneral badly needs to get back to something like the 3 foreigner rule to spread the talent around the teams better, and stop teams like Ajax, PSV, Porto etc from being stripped of all the talent.

[Officer M168]

The problem with the foreigner rule is that it then filters to the national league.
so by example Real Madrid and & Bracalona now start to buy all the best spanish players which leaves the rest of the clubs with the rubbish Spanish players which lowers the quality of the league.
People like Villa, Silva would really jump at the chance to play for Real or Braca as they would know they have more of shot of playing due to the rule instead of like now having to contented with the likes of Kaka, Ronaldo & such for a place in the team.
They can now stay at where ever they are still play in the Champs League & still be able to command a high figure at their current club.
Italy it might work due to at least 4 to 5 teams having the financial power to mix it up a bit unlike Spain where its Real & Barca with the cash
It just would not work out except in England due to the 90min rule.

[RMCF]

Originally Posted by Officer M168

The problem with the foreigner rule is that it then filters to the national league.
so by example Real Madrid and & Bracalona now start to buy all the best spanish players which leaves the rest of the clubs with the rubbish Spanish players which lowers the quality of the league.
People like Villa, Silva would really jump at the chance to play for Real or Braca as they would know they have more of shot of playing due to the rule instead of like now having to contented with the likes of Kaka, Ronaldo & such for a place in the team.
They can now stay at where ever they are still play in the Champs League & still be able to command a high figure at their current club.
Italy it might work due to at least 4 to 5 teams having the financial power to mix it up a bit unlike Spain where its Real & Barca with the cash
It just would not work out except in England due to the 90min rule.

Sorry but disagree.

Barca and Madrid would still only field 16 Spanish players each week in the league, and that leaves an awful lotof talented Spanish players out there for the other clubs to take on board.

Think how it would affect the game in England too. There would be a far better spread of talent if Arsenal, Utd, Liverpool and Chelsea were only able to buy 3 or 4 star foreigners. The rest might want to play in England, and would have to go to the likes of Villa, EVerton, Spurs etc, and thus these teams would have more likelihood of competing.

I think that football was far more competitive when we had the 3 foreigner rule back in the 80s. I remember watching Serie A when it first appeared on ours shores, and nearly every team had class players and it made for really exciting football.

I don't see how anyone can argue that the top 6 or 7 teams in Europe having all the talent is a good thing for the game, and its entertainment value.

[Coffin]

Originally Posted by RMCF

So you love a competition that is rarely exciting up until late Feb?? .

No, I meant the very first few rounds of games where games are inevitably tight as getting points on the board is what it's all about

The latter games in the group stages are interesting as there is lots of play for or teams that have qualified or have no hope loosen up a bit and you get to see different players/formations.

[Officer M168]

The problem is you would have to take that rule down to the Leagues as well, and other countries might not want to do it for their league.
UEFA can force it for the champs league but it would take the National Associations to accept it domestically which i can't see happening for money reasons.

[RMCF]

I think we will see some form of it introduced, but it will be a compromise as the clubs have the power and the law of free labour movement on their side.

UEFA can't impose anything on the clubs, but I think they will try to meet UEFA part of the way and perhaps have a rule of at least 3 home grown players in each team.

But I'd say the big clubs will want something in return - perhaos closer to a Euro Super League?

[thelegendofyrag]

Originally Posted by dazza74

Not sure whether they still do it but Arsenal season tickets used to include the champions league games as well. Always thought this was a great idea as your guaranteeing attendance to these games. I think you also get the FA cup games just not the carling cup.

From what i read last year the first nine i think? home games are included. But will also be charged for any home games after that even if you do not attend but if you inform them you cannot make it they will not charge but sell the seat on.

IIRC had we beaten Cardiff in the FA Cup withought having to play them at home all our home CL and fa-cup games would have been included in the season ticket price. But because we had that replay this meant the Man Utd CL home game would have been charged on top.

[sdb123]

Apologies for bumping an old thread....couldn't find one for general dicussion about the CL.

Does anyone else think there could be a real possibility that Liverpool don't make it out of their qualifying group?

Torres has been ruled out of the forthcoming Lyon game and going away to Lyon the following match will not be easy either.

[dazza74]

Originally Posted by sdb123

Apologies for bumping an old thread....couldn't find one for general dicussion about the CL.

Does anyone else think there could be a real possibility that Liverpool don't make it out of their qualifying group?

Torres has been ruled out of the forthcoming Lyon game and going away to Lyon the following match will not be easy either.

Looking like "Liverpool" have a bit of a group of death on their hands now. Lyon are top of Ligue 1 currently and Fiorentina are 4th in Serie A. I wouldn't bet against that happening.

[mabo]

Originally Posted by dazza74

Looking like "Liverpool" have a bit of a group of death on their hands now. Lyon are top of Ligue 1 currently and Fiorentina are 4th in Serie A. I wouldn't bet against that happening.

Tbh i'd almost welcome an early exit as going to the latter stages puts a strain on any side and Liverpool look to have very little depth atm. Lyon spent big in the summer and it shows, i very much doubt we'll get decent results either home or away against them. One thing's for sure, finishing out of the top four is not an option, so if it takes an early exit from a cup competition or two to keep Torres and Gerrard playing every league game then imo it'll be worth it.

Given current form i sincerely doubt we'll see an English team in the final this year anyway.

[dazza74]

Originally Posted by mabo

Tbh i'd almost welcome an early exit as going to the latter stages puts a strain on any side and Liverpool look to have very little depth atm. Lyon spent big in the summer and it shows, i very much doubt we'll get decent results either home or away against them. One thing's for sure, finishing out of the top four is not an option, so if it takes an early exit from a cup competition or two to keep Torres and Gerrard playing every league game then imo it'll be worth it.

Given current form i sincerely doubt we'll see an English team in the final this year anyway.

Trouble is unless you finish 4th you get stuck in that Europa League. Agree a double edged sword currently in a way playing in Europe this season.

[Kieron]

The latter stages still excite me. I've not paid much attention to the British teams in the early stages.

Now come next year when Spurs are in it and I'll be screaming every week!

[RMCF]

Real Madrid play AC Milan this week, and a few years ago I would have probably organised to fly over for this game.

Now its not even getting me too excited - don't know why. Working and not even taking time off to watch it. Happy enough to catch the highlights later.

[azza21]

The later stages excite me but i really did prefer the old format where by the champions of there league were only in the competition. Its all about money now and its a must to have all the big teams in it or atleast give all the big teams a better chance of getting in the comptetition.

I just don't like that fact its called the champions league yet a team whom finishes 4th can potentially win it.