F1 2009..... Thread 3. Abu Dhabi , last but not least

[johnscarlet]

Thread 2 now closed please contimue in here .


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[SibTiger33]

thanks

[jonneymendoza]

cheers

[Suave]

Hi All,

I think this whole incident is going to open up a further can of some very wriggly worms - this could cost Renault far, far more than just any fines by the FIA.

Remember that Massa was leading the Singapore Grand Prix at the time of the crash (I believe) & the whole safety car then caused him to be be all the way back to 13th. Considering that McClaren/Hamilton won the Championship that year by a single point which might well have not been the case had this stunt not been pulled then & we may most probably & most likely would have seen Massa/Ferrari as winners instead.

I Think Ferrari have a very real case for massive damages here as the loss of a Championship would have lost them tens of millions (if not more) & all the other ancillary benefits that comes with being Champions. I think Renault are going to have to fork out at least £100 million to Ferrari & the FIA are going to have a nightmare to deal with especially since they had access to all that telemetry for so long which they did not call the Renault team on.

I wonder, can this episode cause the FIA to suspend/alter the 2009 results in some way?

Suave!

[BlackCountryBob]

Originally Posted by Suave

Hi All,

I think this whole incident is going to open up a further can of some very wriggly worms - this could cost Renault far, far more than just any fines by the FIA.

Remember that Massa was leading the Singapore Grand Prix at the time of the crash (I believe) & the whole safety car then caused him to be be all the way back to 13th. Considering that McClaren/Hamilton won the Championship that year by a single point which might well have not been the case had this stunt not been pulled then & we may most probably & most likely would have seen Massa/Ferrari as winners instead.

I Think Ferrari have a very real case for massive damages here as the loss of a Championship would have lost them tens of millions (if not more) & all the other ancillary benefits that comes with being Champions. I think Renault are going to have to fork out at least £100 million to Ferrari & the FIA are going to have a nightmare to deal with especially since they had access to all that telemetry for so long which they did not call the Renault team on.

I wonder, can this episode cause the FIA to suspend/alter the 2009 results in some way?

Suave!

Ferrari don't have a case, yes this led to an unscheduled pit stop but every other pit crew down the road was able to do a good pit stop, the fact that Ferrari managed to cock it up may annoy the team but they made the mistake and not Renault; they are guilty of a lot but you cannot bringing lawsuits against them based upon a hypothesis about what could have happened.

Regardless, the race results and the season results cannot be changed now, they are set in stone; despite the abuse it will go down in history as Alonso winning the 2008 Singapore GP. If the results could be changed and Alonso was DSQ then Hamilton would have been 2nd and won the title by 3 points rather than 1.

PS; thanks for merging the threads mods.

[alexs2]

It still remains to be seen how this settles out on Monday,at the hearing.

Flav and Symonds having left does open the door a bit for Renault to escape something severe,but you would think that having seen Schumacher losing his points one year,McLaren being fined very heavily etc for lesser offences than fixing a race in this fashion,that there will be serious consequences.

Against that would have to be weighed the possibility of Renault leaving altogether.

[kBm]

I think Renault will play heavily on that Briatore and Symonds planned the dirty tricks, now they have gone, i think it may just be a slap on the wrist with a fine.

[alexs2]

Originally Posted by kBm

I think Renault will play heavily on that Briatore and Symonds planned the dirty tricks, now they have gone, i think it may just be a slap on the wrist with a fine.

That one didn't work when Toyota's WRC team were found guilty of using a particularly clever way of bypassing the inlet restrictor on their cars,releasing about 50bhp extra.

The engineers responsible were fired,and the team as a whole was banned from the following year's championship.

It depends on a lot of horse-trading I would think.

[Paul_T]

I remember the Toyota incident - that was really sneaky and more "deliberate" that whats gone on with Renault IMO as the car was manufactured that way, it can't have been down to just 2 or 3 people knowing about it.

IIRC the inlet restrictor would open up to allow greater air flow into the engine once the car reached 10mph, it reverted back to it's "legal" size once the car stopped so it passed through scrutinering.

If you want to get into hypothetical "world championship" results then look at 2007 also - weren't the Williams drivers ruled out then reinstated? probably just so the points tally didn't screw up Raikonnen's crown...

[Suave]

Originally Posted by BlackCountryBob

Ferrari don't have a case, yes this led to an unscheduled pit stop but every other pit crew down the road was able to do a good pit stop, the fact that Ferrari managed to cock it up may annoy the team but they made the mistake and not Renault; they are guilty of a lot but you cannot bringing lawsuits against them based upon a hypothesis about what could have happened.

Regardless, the race results and the season results cannot be changed now, they are set in stone; despite the abuse it will go down in history as Alonso winning the 2008 Singapore GP. If the results could be changed and Alonso was DSQ then Hamilton would have been 2nd and won the title by 3 points rather than 1.

PS; thanks for merging the threads mods.

Hi,

Thanks for the comments - I guess we will all see what develops but I suspect a lot of stuff will be done behind closed doors so to speak & we will never know the full extent of what was agreed & settled upon.

What I am having a hard time understanding is that normally, the FIA examines all these cars with a fine tooth comb both before & after the race and all data must be made available to them. Why did they not bring this issue up with Renault/Piquet Jnr at the time - firstly they are probably fully aware of all the dubious strategic tactics that teams can use and having such telling telemetry that they would have examined post-race should have had some serious alarm bells ringing should it not?

Suave!

[BlackCountryBob]

Originally Posted by Suave

What I am having a hard time understanding is that normally, the FIA examines all these cars with a fine tooth comb both before & after the race and all data must be made available to them. Why did they not bring this issue up with Renault/Piquet Jnr at the time - firstly they are probably fully aware of all the dubious strategic tactics that teams can use and having such telling telemetry that they would have examined post-race should have had some serious alarm bells ringing should it not?

Alarm bells should have ben ringing, the rumours around the paddock should have been enough for the FIA to have a look but as was mentioned in the last thread, the FIA is an old boy club who look after themselves before anything else.

Interesting; FIA knew of scandal last year, says Piquet | F1 News | 2009 | Crash.Net

[kBm]

What action, if any, could be taken against Piquet? Surely he still needs a super racing license (or whatever they're call), isn't safety a major factor?

[BlackCountryBob]

Originally Posted by kBm

What action, if any, could be taken against Piquet? Surely he still needs a super racing license (or whatever they're call), isn't safety a major factor?

In return for testifying he has absolute immunity from any action, but he still wont get a drive in F1 again.

[Brogan]

Originally Posted by BlackCountryBob

but he still wont get a drive in F1 again.

Let's face it, based on his results over the last 2 seasons he wasn't going to anyway

[scartlead]

Originally Posted by Paul_T

If you want to get into hypothetical "world championship" results then look at 2007 also - weren't the Williams drivers ruled out then reinstated? probably just so the points tally didn't screw up Raikonnen's crown...

Yeah, IIRC it was for ruuning their fuel cooler than was offically allowed, or something to that effect. Also with regards to ferrari making an issue out the 2008 championship, with massa...well they may not have won the Singapore race anyway. For sheer entertainment, massa's pitstop was laughable, I remember half the pit crew running down the pitlane. They all looked knackered.