glen johnson simply hasnt got it to be world class defender

la gran siete · 06-09-2009, 5:07 PM

Fine as an attacking fullback but their(Slovenia) goal would not have happened with a fully fit Gary Neville or Wes Brown defending the right side. Apart from that not much to grumble about last nights performance except David Upson is no more than honest yoeman

Naaktgeboren · 06-09-2009, 5:14 PM

My observations last night as a non England supporter

Upson was laughable, a fish out of water and is nowhere near international standard.

Robert Green...... Is this the best solution England have for the GK jersey?? Again, certainly not international standard.

Glen Johnson is lightweight and I felt the same when he was at Chelsea, could improve though, he is young so time will tell.

Wayne Rooney, looks a shadow of his former self, the once hyped super kid is looking average right now.

There are some plus points though, Ashley Cole is looking fantastic this season, did not put a foot wrong all game. Defoe can be a real handful but he would need to be tested against a top team.

I cannot see England doing much in the coming tournaments tbh.

kopchoir · 06-09-2009, 5:17 PM

Gary neville is past it and as for wes brown i rate highly, a full back these day needs to bring a lot of qualities to the table defend and attack in equal measure something brown cant do there are no outside rights anymore, I have watched him play for my club this year and he compliments our right hand side well with kuyt who is a work horse and will defend for him so he has cover there.

Its not the first time Johnson has been found wanting at right back defensively but he is still young and hopefully playing in a good team and in the top european comps it will help him improve but i think asking gary nev to come back is plain silly to old to slow

kopchoir · 06-09-2009, 5:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CloggyNL

I cannot see England doing much in the coming tournaments tbh.

Simply not good enough havent been for a while now and i dont know why, pervious managers have had the players to win things IMO just tactically inept

Naaktgeboren · 06-09-2009, 5:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kopchoir

Simply not good enough havent been for a while now and i dont know why, pervious managers have had the players to win things IMO just tactically inept

Well..... it's said in Europe, England have had teams good enough BUT never the right manager at the right time. It was a travesty giving the likes of Graham Taylor a team as good as he had.

Unfortunately now, England have a great coach but, it is certainly not one of the best ever England sides.

**mabo** · 06-09-2009, 5:51 PM

Personally, i thought Johnson did well, apart form the goal, which was a loss of concentration, but he's hardly the first England player to be guilty of that towards the end of a game. The list of England defenders who've had a shocking moment (far worse than simply not getting tight enough in the dying seconds) in recent history is unfortunately pretty long.

Carrick was the real let down for me - he seems to have lost his ability to pick out a perfect pass and so doesn't really add anything to the team.

Milner looks a touch of class on the left though and could keep Joe Cole out of the team when he's fit.

Personally, i wouldn't go as far as saying England won't do much in the coming tournaments - Capello has a great track record of getting the best out of players and moulding teams but it must be remembered that he is only working with the England side in fits and starts. The performances might still be a touch hit and miss but it's the win/loss tally that counts and atm that looks pretty good. Worse teams have gone on to have big impacts at tournaments - remember how many wrote off France before the last world cup?

**Steven** · 06-09-2009, 6:01 PM

I thought Lescott was very shaky in his cameo. Lost a defender for the goal and also one or to other moments of a lack of concentration. Quite poor

kopchoir · 06-09-2009, 6:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LFC_SL

OFF topic

Whos the chick in your avatar by the way

**Steven** · 06-09-2009, 6:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kopchoir

OFF topic

I was defending the guy by apportioning the blame

kopchoir · 06-09-2009, 6:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LFC_SL

I was defending the guy by apportioning the blame

I meant off topic as i was asking you about your avatar who am i to pull someone up for off topic posts

kopchoir · 06-09-2009, 7:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abbeygoo

I like the thread started by the Argentinian to deflect the home loss to Brazil and the impending NON qualification for the world cup

GET A LIFE YOU GASH!!

Stayed up to watch that game as well

Abbeygoo · 06-09-2009, 7:53 PM

The thread is ridiculous ...... Gary Neville? David Upson?

*** ... who is this joker???

thfccambs · 06-09-2009, 8:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abbeygoo

The thread is ridiculous ...... Gary Neville? David Upson?

*** ... who is this joker???

Personally think he has a point.

Agree on the David bit though, Matthew

Maybe he actually meant Phil Neville?

thelegendofyrag · 06-09-2009, 8:29 PM

Johnson was also poor up against Babel vs Holland, he'd be ripped to shreads by the likes of Messi.

Average performance as a whole imo to go with the broadcaster...

DJT75 · 06-09-2009, 8:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thelegendofyrag

Johnson was also poor up against Babel vs Holland, he'd be ripped to shreads by the likes of Messi.

Average performance as a whole imo to go with the broadcaster...

As would any defender..

ed_mcl · 06-09-2009, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thelegendofyrag

Johnson was also poor up against Babel vs Holland, he'd be ripped to shreads by the likes of Messi.

Average performance as a whole imo to go with the broadcaster...

Yeah, I noticed that too.

I lost count of the amount of times Johnson was getting skinned by Babel.

He looks good going forward, but is a liability defensively. Hopefully he'll improve because if us armchair fans can see his weakness the opposition's coach will too and no doubt exploit it.

I can see Bilic doing just that on Wednesday.

dazza74 · 07-09-2009, 8:29 AM

Don't really get all the negativity towards England, not many nations are qualifying 7 and 0 currently for the World Cup. Not saying we should be all getting carried away that we'll walk of with the trophy don't get me wrong. Be interested to know "CloggyNL" who you support?

We drew with Holland in a friendly, got beat by Spain granted but I don't think we had Rooney available that night and since that game we've seen the emergence for me of Lennon and Defoe. Also a lot of big names are struggling to qualify France, Portugal, Italy are still working to get themselves over the line. I think it's important to look at what's going on around you before writing us off.

EDIT :

Argentina (one man team Messi?) struggling and under dubious management

Naaktgeboren · 07-09-2009, 8:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dazza74

Be interested to know "CloggyNL" who you support?

The clue is in the name

RMCF · 07-09-2009, 8:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJT75

As would any defender..

Not Brazilian ones apparently.

dazza74 · 07-09-2009, 8:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CloggyNL

The clue is in the name

Total football it is then

I think your overdue a world cup as it goes, I still can't work out how you didn't pick one up in 74 or 78. I'm thinking of having a cheeky tenner on you guys for 2010

dazza74 · 07-09-2009, 8:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RMCF

Not Brazilian ones apparently.

I sat and watched a lot of that game at the weekend and thought he terrorised them Messi just didn't have the support cast.

Naaktgeboren · 07-09-2009, 8:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dazza74

Total football it is then

I think your overdue a world cup as it goes, I still can't work out how you didn't pick one up in 74 or 78. I'm thinking of having a cheeky tenner on you guys for 2010

Hmm not sure, the squad is in a transitional state right now. With Van Bronckhorst and Ooijer both the wrong side of 30, I am still to be convinced of the possible replacements. Hetinga just has to succeed at Everton, we really cannot afford to have him sitting on the bench etc.

The attacking options are still pretty good and we have some fantastic players and many options.

Unfortunately, we have the unenviable reputation of hitting the self destruct button come the big tournaments with in house fighting etc although that seems to be a problem of old.

Still, the group stages looked good, should be interesting to see how far they can go

sdb123 · 07-09-2009, 9:09 AM

I disagree with the title of the thread, in truth there are not many 'world-class' defenders about.

Glen Johnson as an international defender...well that will take some time. Doubtless he has improved since leaving Chelsea, he has always been decent going forward however you'd assume he would be a better defender as he started out as a CB when he played for West Ham.

Our best chance at RB was Micah Richards but he had a bad season last year and doesn't seem to be the same player as a couple of seasons back.

dazza74 · 07-09-2009, 9:18 AM

Always been a fan of Martin Samuel, a good read on the England team

Martin Samuel on England's World Cup chances: We'll find out soon if this is all an illusion | Mail Online

No expert on formations but it strikes me if Glen Johnson is maybe to attack minded do you need to consider say Beckham again on the right to provide a bit more protection? trouble with that is then you lose the benefit of pace on the right in a Lennon, SWP or Walcott.

**Steven** · 07-09-2009, 2:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdb123

I disagree with the title of the thread, in truth there are not many 'world-class' defenders about.

There are plenty. England have one on the left flank

QuietRiot1983 · 07-09-2009, 3:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LFC_SL

There are plenty. England have one on the left flank

Surely 'world class' means you'd get in a world XI? Therefore there's only 4, 5 at a push, 'world class' defenders.

dazza74 · 07-09-2009, 3:20 PM

Very ambiguous this "World Class" tag. I think it would be great personally to put together an exhibition match featuring the top 22 players currently in the world.

dazza74 · 07-09-2009, 3:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LFC_SL

There are plenty. England have one on the left flank

You could argue we've one at Centre back in some respects if you consider Terry receiving the UEFA champions league best defender award for last season

Naaktgeboren · 07-09-2009, 3:42 PM

I consider England to have 2 world class players. Terry and Gerrard. I think Ashley Cole is currently one of the best left backs in the world, this seasons form is fantastic, if he could maintain his current form throughout this season, I would also put him in this bracket.

**Steven** · 07-09-2009, 6:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thelegendofyrag

Johnson was also poor up against Babel vs Holland, he'd be ripped to shreads by the likes of Messi.

Average performance as a whole imo to go with the broadcaster...

So would Terry with his zero mobility. He does not look so good without his immense Chelsea team-mates around him. Just as well Barry mopped up once or twice