The Ashes

Ian J · 22-06-2009, 12:10 PM

England Test squad for pre-Ashes camp 1. Andrew Strauss (capt), 2. James Anderson, 3. Ian Bell, 4. Ravi Bopara, 5. Tim Bresnan, 6. Stuart Broad, 7. Paul Collingwood, 8. Alastair Cook, 9. Andrew Flintoff, 10. Graham Onions, 11. Monty Panesar, 12. Kevin Pietersen, 13. Matt Prior, 14. Adil Rashid, 15. Ryan Sidebottom, 16. Graeme Swann

England XI to face Warwickshire Andrew Strauss (capt), James Anderson, Stuart Broad, Ravi Bopara, Paul Collingwood, Alastair Cook, Andrew Flintoff, Monty Panesar, Kevin Pietersen, Matt Prior (wk), Graeme Swann

England Lions squad to face Australia Ian Bell (capt), Tim Bresnan, Joe Denly, Steven Davies (wk), Steve Harmison, Sajid Mahmood, Stephen Moore, Eoin Morgan, Graham Onions, Adil Rashid, Vikram Solanki

The above squads have just been announced which I find rather interesting.

Much as I would like a fully fit Flintoff in the side I am hoping that he's not an automatic choice and will need to prove himself just like any other cricketer would.

I assume that the England XI playing the warm up match against Warks is almost the complete England team although I'm not sure why Panesar is playing as he's hopelessly out of form.

It doesn't look as if Harmy will be playing as he's not in the training squad but is down to play for the England Lions. Edgbaston is such a flat track that all County Championship games played there have ended in draws since September 2007 until Durham beat Warks there last week thanks to a superb spell of hostile bowling by Harmison and Onions.

I'm not sure that it's a clever idea to let the Aussies have a look at Onions in a warm up game if they are going to play him in the real thing and if they are not going to play someone who is currently top of the bowling averages and in prime form then I wonder quite what the bloke has to do to get picked.

I notice that Justin Langer is busy promoting Adil Raschid saying that he must be in the side. I'm sure that they would love that as they would belt him all over the park

Lezman · 22-06-2009, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian J

The above squads have just been announced which I find rather interesting.

Much as I would like a fully fit Flintoff in the side I am hoping that he's not an automatic choice and will need to prove himself just like any other cricketer would.

Not really any surprises in that training squad though is there? Not that anyone expected there to be a surprise anyway.

Thing is with Flintoff, Flowers has already said if he's fit then he is a 'shoe-in'. So it doesn't really seem to matter how well he plays.

**Steven** · 22-06-2009, 12:38 PM

Didn't people say Monty stagnated a good while ago?

Snatch · 22-06-2009, 12:50 PM

Thank God Vaghan hasn't been selected!

Ian J · 22-06-2009, 2:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheekyboy_123

Thank God Vaghan hasn't been selected!

It's a shame that Vaughan hasn't rediscovered his touch as when he's batting well he's a top class cricketer.

The problem that Flintoff brings is that he will be batting at number 7 one place behind Prior and I don't think that we have seen anything from Flintoff recently that justifies him batting that high.

Andy Flower says that Flintoff has been scoring runs since his return from injury but I'm not sure that 3 and 0 against Durham followed by 12 and 54 against a fairly weak Hants attack qualifies as "scoring runs"

If Harmy plays well in the warm up match I think he should be included in the test side as he is the one player that the Aussies are scared of as they are well aware that on the docile pitch at Edgbaston he damaged three Warwickshire players last week

**Leej** · 26-06-2009, 8:36 AM

I've said Flintoff should jack test cricket due to all his injury woes and the trouble it causes him going down half way through a series. After watching him play last night, I may have been a bit previous as a fully firing Flintoff will benefit the team. Fingers crossed on the injuries front.

I see the players have been giving predictions on the Ashes result. One last night had a result of 5-0 to England. Nice but a bit hopeful?

What are the forum members predictions? I'll go for a tight 2-2.

Ian J · 26-06-2009, 12:49 PM

The "Flintoff problem" is that he brings balance to the team as with him in the side we can play three fast bowlers plus a spinner which is what we had in the glorious 2005 series.

The problem is that the allrounder needs to be able to score runs when we are playing a quality side like Australia as we can't go in with five batsmen, a wickie plus a long tail and although he scored 93 in a 20/20 last night against a poor quality attack it was only 20/20 and not "real cricket"

I know that we all think that we are selectors and know best but when I sat down to draw up "my team" with either Flintoff as a bowler batting down the order or not playing at all I came unstuck as there is no obvious replacement.

I wouldn't even try and predict the outcome at this stage as I think it depends on who they pick to play. If they pick two spinners for the Cardiff test I can see us losing as Panesar can't even take wickets in the second division of the County Championship whilst Rashid is a rookie that will get swatted to all parts of the ground so whichever they pick could end up causing us problems.

Edgbaston is a flat and slow track similar to those that we couldn't bowl the Windies out on over there. County Championship games at Edgbaston tend to end in a draw with the exception of last week's game with Durham in which Harmison and Onions managed what others had failed before them and took 20 wickets between the to beat Warwickshire.

It looks like their reward is to be excluded from the England side in favour of those that have already failed on flat tracks this year. I know that he has only played two test matches and against poor opposition but Onions has taken 10 wickets at 20 so far as well as being the leading wicket taker in the County Championship with his 40 wickets

Aaron D84 · 01-07-2009, 7:42 PM

Not a good performance by England in the warmup today it seems. Good to see Cook getting a ton and Strauss and Bopara getting starts but that's pretty much it.

Only plus side is the fact Australia didn't do to well, it's a bit omnious seeing Hussey getting 143 not out as he's such a fantastic batsmen, but it's too be expected he would come back into form over here as he knows the conditions well from his time at Durham.

Good to see Inions getting a few wickets but would rather him have got some time in the team up at Warwickshire and even better to see that Harmison has continued his Durham form into the Lions game but he probs won't get a chance come next week.

Aaron D84 · 01-07-2009, 7:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian J

Edgbaston is a flat and slow track similar to those that we couldn't bowl the Windies out on over there. County Championship games at Edgbaston tend to end in a draw with the exception of last week's game with Durham in which Harmison and Onions managed what others had failed before them and took 20 wickets between the to beat Warwickshire.

I'd like too see both Onions and Harmison playing.

Strauss, Cook, Bopara, Pieterson, Collingwood, Prior, Broad, Swann, Onions, Harmison, Anderson

That's how i'd go in however it seems the "superstar mentality" that affects cricket means Flintoff will play despite him having not been in the runs for a long time for England.

It would be a massive risk to have a longer tail but i think that Broad is more than capable of getting runs down the order and Swann has determination and can stay at the crease if needs be.

I'd love to see an attack of Harmison, Broad, Anderson and Onions as well and for a flat track it doesn't always mean you need two spinners and we would have a bit of variation to take the pace off the ball with Colly and even Bopara and Pieterson bowling a bit of off break.

Ian J · 01-07-2009, 7:51 PM

Four out of the five Durham lads on show today did well with Harmison and Onions bowling well and their ex colleagues Katich and Hussey racking up decent scores. Only Marcus North of the North East contingent failed today.

I have no doubt that the Aussies will be mightily relieved that they won't have to face them when the real battle commences next Wednesday

Spligsey · 02-07-2009, 8:41 AM

Trouble with Harmison is, he'll bowl like a demon for his county, pull on the England shirt & be all over the place.
He's done it before & i think the selectors believe he is a bit weak mentally.
They sort of ran out of patience with him a while back.
Can't wait for next Wednesday.
If there's one team in the world that you never write off, it is the Australians.
When you think of the players that have now retired: Gilchrist, Langer, Hayden, Warne, McGrath, Martin & MacGill, it should give England a lift!

Aaron D84 · 02-07-2009, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spligsey

Trouble with Harmison is, he'll bowl like a demon for his county, pull on the England shirt & be all over the place.
He's done it before & i think the selectors believe he is a bit weak mentally.

Well i think it's well documented that Harmy gets home sick. He's not quite got the demons Trescothick has but he bowls much better when he's had plenty of time to run in at County level and when it's a home series.

Sure you could say if he cant play on the winter tours he shouldn't be playing full stop but it's the Ashes and it's not like he would be replacing Broad or Anderson who have nailed down their places, there is still a spot up for grabs and it should be your form bowers who are in the team.

Harmy bowled well last summer when he came back into the side having got overs under his belt at county level. He's got pace and bounce which unsettles batsmen he shouldn't be left out IMO.

Toon-man · 02-07-2009, 6:47 PM

That guy Aussie guy was bowling pretty quick today the one most of the media have said he`s past his best, what his name?

Oh that`s it Brett Lee....Both him and Mich Johnson will have a huge say in the tests coming up..

Ian J · 03-07-2009, 8:03 AM

As someone lucky enough to have got tickets for the opening day of the first test at Cardiff next week there is nothing more that I would like to see than a fired up Brett Lee bowling at full pelt to our boys as he is one of my favorite sportsmen.

I can still remember the Ashes series in 2005 when Harmison fired a warning to the Australians by clanging Justin Langer on the helmet and standing there with hands on hip whilst Langer wandered around dazed. Contrast that to when Brett Lee felled one of our lads and sprinted straight down the pitch to make sure that was alright. A true sportsman

**Leej** · 03-07-2009, 8:55 AM

I too am pleased the Lee looks to be in. Felt a bit sorry for Bell yesterday, after England having had a good start you could almost predict he was going to get a good first delivery and get out.

Wouldn't want to be in the selectors shoes when trying to pick the bowling line up, we seem to have many capable bowlers. The batting line up doesn't appear to be too hard to pick, possibly through lack of competition?

Ian J · 03-07-2009, 9:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leej

The batting line up doesn't appear to be too hard to pick, possibly through lack of competition?

Stephen Moore must wonder what he has to do to get in the England team having made 120 against almost a full Australian attack whilst one of the England regulars Paul Collingwood managed just 16 runs before becoming medium pacer Keith Barker's first ever first class victim.

**Leej** · 03-07-2009, 9:10 AM

Quote:

Keith Barker's first ever first class victim.

You've gotta love the England team, they give firsts, best bowling and highest individual scores to the opposition on a regular basis.

Aaron D84 · 03-07-2009, 4:32 PM

Harmison in the wickets again today and looks to have the better of Hughes.

Good to see most of the ENgland batsmen in the runs at Warwickshire as well Strauss has got a few in both innings, Century's for Cook and Bopara and Broad and Collingwood in the runs today. Only Pieterson hasn't managed any.

Ian J · 03-07-2009, 5:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron D84

Good to see most of the ENgland batsmen in the runs at Warwickshire as well.

The quality of the Warwickshire attack was pretty poor though featuring ex Blackburn Rovers footballer Keith Barker in his third first class game and 17 year old Ateeq Javid in his second first class game.

It would have been better if they could have faced some tougher opposition such as the current county champions Durham who seem to have such bowling strength in depth that they managed to beat Worcestershire today without either Harmison or Onions

scrapbook · 03-07-2009, 8:34 PM

Do we think GBH will get a call up after his display or will it depend upon how we do in the first test?

Ian J · 04-07-2009, 7:12 AM

Who knows. All of the talk seems to be about playing two spinners. Harmyy has shown that their new boy is susceptible to a fast bouncer having got him out very cheaply in both innings so they will probably play Monty instead and allow Hughes to score his maiden Ashes century

scrapbook · 04-07-2009, 11:46 AM

Too early for Rashid I guess?

Toon-man · 04-07-2009, 4:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian J

Who knows. All of the talk seems to be about playing two spinners. Harmyy has shown that their new boy is susceptible to a fast bouncer having got him out very cheaply in both innings so they will probably play Monty instead and allow Hughes to score his maiden Ashes century

Why not play both along with Anderson, Broad, & Freddie that should be enough to get twenty wickets.

I noticed Liam Plunket got 11 wickets the other day maybis ready for a recall??

Ian J · 04-07-2009, 5:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toon-man

I noticed Liam Plunket got 11 wickets the other day maybis ready for a recall??

Liam Plunkett was a great bowler who was called up too early. His wonderful natural action was coached out of him by the England coaches until he was no longer anywhere near as effective as he was so was sent back to county cricket

Jimmy Anderson was another highly effective bowler who was over coached by England until he completely lost it and ended up discarded. He decided to forget everything that the England coaching staff had taught him and went back to his original action and is now the spearhead of England's attack.

Ian J · 05-07-2009, 9:39 AM

The squad has just been announced with the first ten being as everyone would have expected and Onions and Panesar fighting over the number 111 slot.

scrapbook · 05-07-2009, 5:14 PM

I supposed you can see why Onions got the nod over GBH with current form and the nature of the pitch in cardiff taken into account.

Not sure about Monty though, his form has been very ropey this year to date.

Aaron D84 · 05-07-2009, 5:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scrapbook

I supposed you can see why Onions got the nod over GBH with current form and the nature of the pitch in cardiff taken into account.

Not sure about Monty though, his form has been very ropey this year to date.

The thing is with the Monty situation Rashid got blasted all over the park in the Lions game against Australia so there was no way he was going to get in the squad ahead of Monty.

Aaron D84 · 05-07-2009, 5:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian J

Liam Plunkett was a great bowler who was called up too early.

When i was at College in my second year Liam started on the same course as me in the year below. I was in shock when he got called up for England, I knew he was a decent player but his call up came out of nowhere.

Sure he was Durham's leading wicket taker but he was still young. That's one of the problems with the selectors and youth at times they pick people up then discard them as they have struggled with being thrust into test cricket too early.

Like you say they did it with Anderson and Liam and Sadjid are just starting to get their career back on track.

Ian J · 06-07-2009, 6:09 AM

I don't think that the problem is one of age as Wayne Parnell is only 19 and the Pakistani death bowler is (supposedly) 17 but with both Anderson and Plunkett they took excellent bowlers and tried to remodel their actions until they could no longer do what it was they were picked for.

At least with Stuart Broad they left his action alone

Aaron D84 · 06-07-2009, 1:16 PM

Lee ruled out of first two Tests | Cricket News | The Ashes - England v Australia 2009 | Cricinfo.com

Brett Lee may miss the first two tests. Massive boost for England but a shame for the Ashes in general as you want to see the best players on display.

If he's missing they'll need Stuart Clark to really step his game up and hope Mitchel Johnson's form improves.