[DrWise]

Guys Who you think is the better player?

[kopchoir]

Originally Posted by wiser1

Guys Who you think is the better player?

why gerrard vs iniesta you think if gerrard played tonight and played well the votes would be biased

Iniesta is a top draw player but i have said it time and time again
stevie g is the best midfielder in the world votes cast will be overshadowed by tongights performance by iniesta.

Iniesta vs Carrick vs Anderson vs Hargreaves vs Giggs vs Scholes vs Fletcher then there is no comparison

[hopeless]

No brainer for me - Iniesta

English players are overrated, especially the likes of Gerrard and Lampard

All Iniesta & Co need do now is win the World Cup

[owen021173]

stevie g- overrated!! give me a break, man!!

[Steven]

I suspect if you asked managers they would tell you that they want both If we are playing fantasy manager then I'm not going to draw arbitrary distinctions. You can have it all

It is a curiosity of some English fans. "Look - his passport has a picture of the Queen's emblem on it too! He cannot possible be considered next to these foreigners with their pretty boy good looks and olive skin"

It is clear that a player does not make a team, but for those around certain English stars at club level, they shine. It is a testament to the abilities of Steven Gerrard that if you asked a manager to have a pick versus Iniesta, Messi or whoever they would think long and hard

And again with Frank Lampard. He gets his detractors for precisely one reason only - he performs. Simple. I personally have no time for people who would falsely claim to be football fans when Lampard was meanwhile on a mission, particularly when Scolari was about to be sacked, and therefore the best they can do is a pie joke. I think there is a bit of a difference between "Premiership fitness" and "football fan fitness" in any case

Iniesta and Xavi owned that midfield tonight, but lets be honest, Barca did not have to hit top gear. They got away with Puyol as a right back

[Hi-Def]

Gerrard wasnt playing tonight so stick with the barca vs manc comparisons

When liverpool played them in 2007 we won 2-1 at the Nou camp they may well be a better team lets see if we draw each other next season so we can see again.

Iniesta is a brilliant player and Xavi is brilliant aswell but they bossed a crappy midfield if there was the likes or Alonso, masch and gerrard in there i doubt they would have the same freedom

[RMCF]

As a neutral, I'd love to have BOTH of them in midfield.

Both great, if different, types of players.

[hopeless]

I'll probably get some flak for stating my opinion but that's all it is.

If Gerrard, Lampard etc are world class why is it when you put them in an England shirt they fail to live up to their hype

To me, they are all overrated, over valued and lacking versatility

To put things into context, how many English players have played over seas in the last 20 years?

And what are the odds next year England under-achieve at the World Cup, and are knocked out by an 'inferior' team?

Not exactly stellar performances from world class players if you ask me

I mean, where was Iniesta at Euro 2008? - holding up the European Cup
Where was Gerrard?- at home lifting up a tea cup

[bearman3784]

Iniesta is obviously quality, but id still have Stevie G in a premiership team over Iniesta (although his diving makes me )

[DJT75]

Originally Posted by yours truly

I'll probably get some flak for stating my opinion but that's all it is.

Yes, I can only assume you know nothing about football.

Originally Posted by yours truly

If Gerrard, Lampard etc are world class why is it when you put them in an England shirt they fail to live up to their hype

How many times has Gerrard played in his correct position for England out of about 70 appearances? About 5 times.

Originally Posted by yours truly

To me, they are all overrated, over valued and lacking versatility

Gerrard overated? How? Overvalued - never been transfered so how would we know? & Not Versatile? Play Gerrard in any of the 10 outfield positions & he'll shine, they is not a more versatile player on the player & there probably never has been. The only position I've never seen Gerrard play in Centreback & I'm pretty damn sure he'd be better than the average CB.

Originally Posted by yours truly

To put things into context, how many English players have played over seas in the last 20 years?

To put things into context correctly, why would any English player want to play abroad when the majority of top players are over here in the strongest league with the most money?

Originally Posted by yours truly

And what are the odds next year England under-achieve at the World Cup, and are knocked out by an 'inferior' team?

Inferior on the day or inferior because their grandfathers didn't win a world cup? Why would England be superior against any other team, we have a handful of world class players, but we're not Spain.

Originally Posted by yours truly

I mean, where was Iniesta at Euro 2008? - holding up the European Cup
Where was Gerrard?- at home lifting up a tea cup

Yeah, he won it all on his own didn't he



There is no comparison between Iniesta & Gerrard, they play different roles, although traditionally more attacking Iniesta now sits nicely in midfield pulling the strings. Gerrard has been moved forward from that role.

[jabintendo]

It is clear that they are both amazing midfielders, but are very different.
I myself prefer inesta but that is because he is a more cuter player with he ball. (i prefer this style)
Gerrard is a fantastic fielder with passion and goals in him. If inesta scored more goals than gerrard, then i think most people would agree he would be better than gerrard, but he does play more deeper than gerrrard.

[thelegendofyrag]

Passing bossing a game then Iniesta

Scoring goals and attacking play - Gerrard.

Two slightly different players imo.

[danuk]

Originally Posted by DJT75

Yes, I can only assume you know nothing about football.

How many times has Gerrard played in his correct position for England out of about 70 appearances? About 5 times.

Gerrard overated? How? Overvalued - never been transfered so how would we know? & Not Versatile? Play Gerrard in any of the 10 outfield positions & he'll shine, they is not a more versatile player on the player & there probably never has been. The only position I've never seen Gerrard play in Centreback & I'm pretty damn sure he'd be better than the average CB.

To put things into context correctly, why would any English player want to play abroad when the majority of top players are over here in the strongest league with the most money?

Inferior on the day or inferior because their grandfathers didn't win a world cup? Why would England be superior against any other team, we have a handful of world class players, but we're not Spain.


Yeah, he won it all on his own didn't he



There is no comparison between Iniesta & Gerrard, they play different roles, although traditionally more attacking Iniesta now sits nicely in midfield pulling the strings. Gerrard has been moved forward from that role.

Nice

[Coffin]

Firstly, two different types of midfield players. It's difficult to choose something over another when each have different purposes.

Also Iniesta has just turned 25, Gerrard is 29 on Saturday. So if I had to choose a player today it would be Iniesta. In terms of trophies, Gerrard would be envious of the Spanish player as Iniesta holds 3 League titles and has won 2 European Cups, having played the 2nd half against Arsenal in '06 at the age of 22 (!)

BUT, after saying all that and as an Arsenal supporter; seeing Gerrard week in week out giving his all is magnificent stuff and his overall influence on the rest of the team is practically tangible. For a long time now he's been a favorite player of mine.

[DJT75]

I assume the OP is using Iniesta for the reason United were hammered last night, not anything to do with their own poor show.

Maybe a more appropriate poll would be.

Would Liverpool have had a far better showing against Barcelona last night?

Answer, most definitely.

& Chelsea, & Arsenal

[neilios]

Originally Posted by DJT75

Yes, I can only assume you know nothing about football.

How many times has Gerrard played in his correct position for England out of about 70 appearances? About 5 times.

Gerrard overated? How? Overvalued - never been transfered so how would we know? & Not Versatile? Play Gerrard in any of the 10 outfield positions & he'll shine, they is not a more versatile player on the player & there probably never has been. The only position I've never seen Gerrard play in Centreback & I'm pretty damn sure he'd be better than the average CB.

To put things into context correctly, why would any English player want to play abroad when the majority of top players are over here in the strongest league with the most money?

Inferior on the day or inferior because their grandfathers didn't win a world cup? Why would England be superior against any other team, we have a handful of world class players, but we're not Spain.


Yeah, he won it all on his own didn't he



There is no comparison between Iniesta & Gerrard, they play different roles, although traditionally more attacking Iniesta now sits nicely in midfield pulling the strings. Gerrard has been moved forward from that role.

Strongest league lol,yeah ,keep them blinkers on ,we never do anything in the world stage because to be frank our best players are like cart horses compared to the top euro and brazil ,argentinian players .Lampard ,looked like an amateur against barca the other week ,and last night carrick lol.

Gerrard stands out in a, to be frank without the overseas players a **** league ,he's not even in the same league as Iniesta or player of is ilk ,we'll see again next yr in the world cup .

We ought to rename the premier league ,to cart horse division one sponsored by shires.

[Jay]

Originally Posted by DJT75

How many times has Gerrard played in his correct position for England out of about 70 appearances? About 5 times.

Not Versatile? Play Gerrard in any of the 10 outfield positions & he'll shine, they is not a more versatile player on the player & there probably never has been.

Am I the only one that's spotted the contradiction.

Your reply to someone that stated that Gerrard never performs for his country was that it was because he's only played in his correct position about 5 times.

You then go on to say he's one of the most versatile players.

If Mr Gerrard is Mr Versatility then why are you making an excuse being that he hasn't performed because he is rarely plays in his "correct" position for England

[Jay]

I have to agree with the opinion of English players being over rated but then again we are in England so it's to be expected.

I'd like to know how many English players have done well abroad?

The list'll be quite short

English players get hyped up, get bought by a Major club abroad and then flop....

If someone say's Beckham I'll throw my keyboard through my screen, all he can do is Pass....when he's in open space.

Oh and he scores a lucky free kick now and then

[neilios]

Av forums exclusive ,gerrards new boots revealed for the first time .

[hopeless]

Originally Posted by Indecisive Jay

Am I the only one that's spotted the contradiction.

Your reply to someone that stated that Gerrard never performs for his country was that it was because he's only played in his correct position about 5 times.

You then go on to say he's one of the most versatile players.

If Mr Gerrard is Mr Versatility then why are you making an excuse being that he hasn't performed because he is rarely plays in his "correct" position for England

Yeah I spotted it too, but his response was posted early - so I'll let him off

But i was in a bad mood yesterday so I'll let myself off too :D

[joonyar]

Gerrard is a good player but Iniesta, Xavi & Messi are outstanding.
I dont think the EPL is the best league in the world, I think they pay the most inflated wages in the world. Why else would average players be driving around in Lambourghinis etc?
If it is the best in the world why arent most of the worlds best players playing in it, Iniesta, Messi, Kaka, Pato (the only world class player playing in the EPL IMHO is Ronaldo & he was rotten in the final)
To say Stevie G can play anywhere makes me wonder if the poster has seen Gerrard play for England.
As for me Iniesta should win best player in the world, give me a shout when Gerrard stops diving all the time
& manages to evade 4 players surrounding him with the ball.

[DJT75]

I love all these comments from people that have probably seen Iniesta play for 90 minutes in their entire lives - but they're now experts on Spanish football, hilarious.

For the Gerrard versatile bashers above, picking an England team is not just about picking 11 players (although it has been for years prior to Capello's arrival), you need tactics & a system. Not only has Gerrard not been played in a position to best benefit him & the team, he's been stuffed in there with absolutely no instruction of any intelligence. So if you want Gerrard to be player manager, fine, but it's his managers that have failed to use him to the best benefit, not himself. Anyone that doesn't think he's World Class should stop watching football now, there's not a manager in the world that wouldn't have him in their starting 11 - what else can he do?

Gerrard & Iniesta are both world class players, they are at the top of world football, just like Messi is, just like Kaka is, just like Xavi is - it's not rocket science.


To the "the EPL isn't the strongest league in the world" theorist. Please do tell me which one is then because I struggling to see how else has dominated the last 8 in the Champions League for the last 5 years. So what if Kaka plays abroad, Messi plays abroad - maybe they prefer the weather or culture (I would). The Premier League has had & still has a mountain of top players. It's not just the domestic players that make up a league it's the overseas players too - where are Kaka, Messi, E'to, Henry from? Not the countries they play in, so the whole quote from "neilios" is utter garbage, he's confusing the England team with the EPL.

So Barcelona beat a very underperforming United side 2-0, whoopie-do, on another day they might not & I'm pretty sure had it been the current form Chelsea or Liverpool sides playing they may have even been beaten. Yes they're good but they're not unbeatable & their own domestic league at the moment is on a low so they're having it very easy.

[Kawsar17]

Gerrard for me, the most complete player in the world for me and it's hard to say that being a man utd fan.

I've admired iniesta for a long time, the barca academy really does well at finding these young gifted players.

[ed_mcl]

Originally Posted by DJT75

I love all these comments from people that have probably seen Iniesta play for 90 minutes in their entire lives - but they're now experts on Spanish football, hilarious.

For the Gerrard versatile bashers above, picking an England team is not just about picking 11 players (although it has been for years prior to Capello's arrival), you need tactics & a system. Not only has Gerrard not been played in a position to best benefit him & the team, he's been stuffed in there with absolutely no instruction of any intelligence. So if you want Gerrard to be player manager, fine, but it's his managers that have failed to use him to the best benefit, not himself. Anyone that doesn't think he's World Class should stop watching football now, there's not a manager in the world that wouldn't have him in their starting 11 - what else can he do?

Gerrard & Iniesta are both world class players, they are at the top of world football, just like Messi is, just like Kaka is, just like Xavi is - it's not rocket science.


To the "the EPL isn't the strongest league in the world" theorist. Please do tell me which one is then because I struggling to see how else has dominated the last 8 in the Champions League for the last 5 years. So what if Kaka plays abroad, Messi plays abroad - maybe they prefer the weather or culture (I would). The Premier League has had & still has a mountain of top players. It's not just the domestic players that make up a league it's the overseas players too - where are Kaka, Messi, E'to, Henry from? Not the countries they play in, so the whole quote from "neilios" is utter garbage, he's confusing the England team with the EPL.

So Barcelona beat a very underperforming United side 2-0, whoopie-do, on another day they might not & I'm pretty sure had it been the current form Chelsea or Liverpool sides playing they may have even been beaten. Yes they're good but they're not unbeatable & their own domestic league at the moment is on a low so they're having it very easy.

Erm... so because 4 teams from a league of 20 have dominated the Champion's League over the last few years that makes the Premier League stronger than all the others???

Ah, but then you seem to think Fulham would have won La Liga and Copa del Rey this season too.

[DJT75]

Originally Posted by ed_mcl

Erm... so because 4 teams from a league of 20 have dominated the Champion's League over the last few years that makes the Premier League stronger than all the others???

Just look at how the top few dominate each & every league in world football, people seem to think England & Scotland are the only 2 leagues with a big 2, 3 or 4, but it happens everywhere. The rest of the teams in the Spanish league are as far away from Barcelona as everyone else is the top 4 in England. Thus proving the leagues aren't any stronger & the Spanish league is currently a one horse race.

Please do attempt to prove that other leagues are stronger, I'm interested to find out how exactly?

[ed_mcl]

Originally Posted by DJT75

Just look at how the top few dominate each & every league in world football, people seem to think England & Scotland are the only 2 leagues with a big 2, 3 or 4, but it happens everywhere. The rest of the teams in the Spanish league are as far away from Barcelona as everyone else is the top 4 in England. Thus proving the leagues aren't any stronger & the Spanish league is currently a one horse race.

Please do attempt to prove that other leagues are stronger, I'm interested to find out how exactly?

I'm not attempting to prove that any league is stronger than the other, I just think your criteria for suggesting that the Premier League is stronger than every other league, due to the fact the top four perform admirably in the Champion's League is absolutely ridiculous and holds no water whatsoever. It seems you're completely disregarding the other 16 teams that for the most part are absolute crap.

You need to realise that the quality of a particular league doesn't rest upon a few teams doing well.

[mabo]

Originally Posted by joonyar

As for me Iniesta should win best player in the world, give me a shout when Gerrard stops diving all the time
& manages to evade 4 players surrounding him with the ball.

The counter argument would be; give me a shout when Iniesta makes a last gasp tackle or learns to head the ball.

Seriously, i think Iniesta is absolutely incredible but to argue that Gerrrard dives and ignore Iniesta's ability to hit the floor when touched seems a little odd.

Two different players in two different teams and leagues. Gerrard would not be able to emulate Iniesta's close control and cute passing, Iniesta wouldn't be able to cope with the physical demands of the EPL or emulate Gerrard's forceful attacking runs.

Imo of course.

[Jay]

Originally Posted by DJT75

I love all these comments from people that have probably seen Iniesta play for 90 minutes in their entire lives - but they're now experts on Spanish football, hilarious.

For the Gerrard versatile bashers above, picking an England team is not just about picking 11 players (although it has been for years prior to Capello's arrival), you need tactics & a system. Not only has Gerrard not been played in a position to best benefit him & the team, he's been stuffed in there with absolutely no instruction of any intelligence. So if you want Gerrard to be player manager, fine, but it's his managers that have failed to use him to the best benefit, not himself. Anyone that doesn't think he's World Class should stop watching football now, there's not a manager in the world that wouldn't have him in their starting 11 - what else can he do?

Gerrard & Iniesta are both world class players, they are at the top of world football, just like Messi is, just like Kaka is, just like Xavi is - it's not rocket science.


To the "the EPL isn't the strongest league in the world" theorist. Please do tell me which one is then because I struggling to see how else has dominated the last 8 in the Champions League for the last 5 years. So what if Kaka plays abroad, Messi plays abroad - maybe they prefer the weather or culture (I would). The Premier League has had & still has a mountain of top players. It's not just the domestic players that make up a league it's the overseas players too - where are Kaka, Messi, E'to, Henry from? Not the countries they play in, so the whole quote from "neilios" is utter garbage, he's confusing the England team with the EPL.

So Barcelona beat a very underperforming United side 2-0, whoopie-do, on another day they might not & I'm pretty sure had it been the current form Chelsea or Liverpool sides playing they may have even been beaten. Yes they're good but they're not unbeatable & their own domestic league at the moment is on a low so they're having it very easy.

I only picked up on the Mr Versatile because you said Gerrard can shine in any position and is the most versatile player but then you say he's not doing as well because he's played out of position.

With regards to the Premier league being one of the best leagues, even years ago (when it wasn't as foreign) it was still regarded as one of the top leagues by some, and even then I would have disagreed.

English football has a certain way about it, it is really boring to watch compared to a lot of foreign football.

Don't tell me you find England playing football more enjoyable than watching Argentina or Brazil, or even Portugal or Spain.

The brazilian leagues for example don't have real big teams but the football they play is more enjoyable, big teams don't necessarily equal good football.

Your point about say the Spanish leagues where the other teams aren't anywhere near Barca etc, I still find Spanish and Italian football far more entertaining to watch.

Going back to Gerrard he's not a bad player at all, he's just over rated, in the same way Pioneer tvs are, yes they are very good, at the top of their game, but just over rated

[ed_mcl]

Originally Posted by mabo

The counter argument would be; give me a shout when Iniesta makes a last gasp tackle or learns to head the ball.

Seriously, i think Iniesta is absolutely incredible but to argue that Gerrrard dives and ignore Iniesta's ability to hit the floor when touched seems a little odd.

Two different players in two different teams and leagues. Gerrard would not be able to emulate Iniesta's close control and cute passing, Iniesta wouldn't be able to cope with the physical demands of the EPL or emulate Gerrard's forceful attacking runs.

Imo of course.

Comparing Iniesta getting floored by two defenders to Gerrard simply diving when no one has touched him at all is a little rich don't you think?

Gerrard's the biggest, diving, hypocritical cheat in the game.

I've never seen Iniesta dive around like Gerrard does, or read comments from him attributing the dive culture on foreigners when more guilty of it himself, or tell fellow team mates that he and the club they play for doesn't tolerate diving yet does it himself.

[Jay]

Infact the more I think about it, if I had to have a dream eleven not one English player would make it in my selection.