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Old 12-01-2009, 5:06 AM   #1 (permalink)
Jfs
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How do I choose speakers: specifications

I am looking to buy speakers along with an amplifier.
I am looking for something on a budget.
I would like to know what I should be looking at it the way of specifications.

I would appreciate any reference to online sites or magazines that would be helpful. Will probably buy something used. Any recommendations would be appreciated.

Thanks.
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Old 12-01-2009, 5:40 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: How do I choose speakers: specifications

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Originally Posted by Jfs View Post
I would like to know what I should be looking at it the way of specifications.
You might find this usefull
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Old 12-01-2009, 6:57 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: How do I choose speakers: specifications

I commented extensively in the thread that Phil T referenced. Definitely worth a read for understanding basic specs.

I will add a few points to expand on that in the context of your basic question.

The basic rule of thumb guideline -

Take your budget, split it into two halves, set aside one half for the amp and another half for the speakers.

This isn't absolutely fixed. It just gets you started. In most cased, when all is said and done, most people spend a little less on the amp and a little more on the speakers. But a 50/50 split gets you into the class of amps and speakers you want. Then you can make adjustments according to your priorities and tastes.

Amp Power -
When comparing amps, make sure your are comparing apples to apples. There are many ways of rating power. One method to inflate power is to test it with 4 ohms speakers. That will make the power seem roughly twice as high as it really is. Also, amps are sometime rated at Dynamic Power, which is another inflated method.

The truest method is RMS power. It doesn't matter what RMS is or how it is derived. Just know when you see it, that that amp will absolutely kick out that amount of RMS power.

It doesn't so much matter which power ratings you use, as long as you are using the same method for all the amps you compare. Usually this requires going to the website of a few of the manufacturers you are interested in and getting detailed specifications. In some cases, you actually need to look at the Owner's Manual which are usually available on-line in PDF format. In the Manual, the detailed specs are usually on the last page.

In some cases, I compare identical amps in both the USA and in Europe, just to make sure I'm getting full and accurate information on power ratings.

Amp Features -
If you are looking at an AV amp or Surround Sound Amp, you want to make sure it has the features you need. If you need 3 HDMI (digital audio/video) inputs, then make sure your amp has them.

For example, you might have a digital TV cable box, and it may have one kind of digital output. Your video game might have a completely different kind of digital output. And you DVD/BluRay might have a third type.

If you have an assortment of input devices, then you need to make sure your amp can accommodate them all.

Next, you want to make sure the amp, as much as possible within your budget, has all the latest video encoding/decoding methods.

Typically, your budget will dictate how much amp power you can get, and how adequate that power is to the job at hand. Usually, the rated power is more than adequate. The question, though somewhat debatable, is whether the amp can actually deliver that power when you need it. But that is an argument we don't need to have now, and also, as I implied, it is dictated by your budget.

Speakers -
This gets dicey. In general there are three basic types of speakers.

'Egg/Pod' speakers, which are called this because they are very small speakers that frequently look egg-like or like odd space pods. I generally don't like them, but also acknowledge that there is a time and place for them. If you are in a small bedroom, or small dorm room, then having large speaker may be out of the question.

In some cases people choose them because they want something unobtrusive, or because they have kids, and can mount the 'Eggs' on the wall out of the way. You wouldn't want your little kid to pull a big heavy floorstanding speaker over on themselves.

'Egg/Pod' speaker run the full price range from under £200 to well over £1500 for a 5.1 speaker system. They do what they do well, and can sound good for their size. Again, for their size, they do what they do well.

Next, Bookshelf speakers, though fairly they do come in quite a range of sizes. This is probably the best bet and most popular type of speaker, and many would argue it is the best value for your money. The prices range from under £100 for a pair, to well over £3000 a pair.

Floorstanding speakers are larger multi-driver speakers in cabinets that stand on the floor, hence 'floorstander'; though some also call them towers. These can run from the equivalent of a bookshelf in a larger cabinet to very large multi-driver cabinet. The price range can be from about £150/pr and up to infinity.

When looking at specs for a pair of stereo speakers or for front speakers in a surround system, I look for low frequency response of 60hz or lower. Below 50hz is better, and below 40hz is great. High frequency response specs are usually adequate and you don't have to worry about them.

HZ or hz or hertz means cycles per second, and is the unit used to measure frequency. So when you see 50hz, just think 50 cycles per second. kzh = kilohertz or a thousand cycles per second.

Now fairly, if the front speakers are for a surround system that will have a Subwoofer, they don't need to respond any lower than about 80hz. Though I personally like to have some reserve. The reason for this is that the subwoofer covers everything below 80hz.

Subwoofers (subs)-
Very large specialized speakers that cover the very low bass frequency range. In a 5.1 system, the .1 represents the sub. So, 5.0 means no sub, 5.1 means one sub (the most common), and 5.2 means two subs.

In most cases, the absolute highest frequency a sub can handle is a mere 200hz. Though it is typically set in the 80hz range according to the THX specification.

Some of the best subs go very low, down, in some cases, to 15hz. Though to be fair, you can probably only hear slightly below 30hz. But, you can feel things below 30hz and this is important to enhancing the movie listening experience. When the aliens land, you want to be able to feel the rumble of their warp drive engines.

More common consumer subs settle for response down in the area of 30hz and for most consumers that's enough.

'Egg/Pod' subs can be relatively cheap to match the cost of the matching satellite speakers. But good subs start at closer to £200 and go up to an easy £2000 each.

Now the bad news, depending on your budget, it is difficult to come up with a good AV amp and 5.1 speaker system for less than £500. And most would suggest that you spend at least £1000. But don't despair if that exceeds your budget. You can still get an acceptable all-in-one system for less, and many people are very satisfied with them.

That should get you started.

Steve/bluewizard
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Old 16-01-2009, 1:55 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: How do I choose speakers: specifications

Thanks for the article Phil T. I found it interesting.

I listened to a set of larger bookshelf speakers. I found the sound a bit harsh. I was told that with smaller speakers the base wasn't deep enough and this caused the treble to be harsher or more biting. I listened to them in a larger room. I also thought this might have something to do with it.
Does having a lower base result in better higher frequencies?

Thanks.

Last edited by Jfs; 16-01-2009 at 1:58 AM.
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Old 16-01-2009, 2:20 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: How do I choose speakers: specifications

It's useful when asking for advice to name the speakers that you have listened to and what amps and sources they were partnered with. Each product has its own characteristics and some do well being partnered with certain brands whilst doing badly with others. In general, bookshelf speakers don't have as deep bass range as floorstanders. There are plenty of bookshelf speakers that sound great so it isn't a rule that they all sound "harsh" because they don't have "enough" bass.

Room acoustics do also play a big part in how the complete package sounds, which is why it's important to try and get the dealer to allow you a home audition rather than in their (possibly acoustically optimised) listening room.

What is your budget and what sort of room (size, furnishings, floors etc)are you looking to put the system in?
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Old 16-01-2009, 4:00 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: How do I choose speakers: specifications

If you are referring to Home Cinema Speakers you can read that too.
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Old 16-01-2009, 7:56 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: How do I choose speakers: specifications

Listening to them is the only way.
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Old 16-01-2009, 2:44 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: How do I choose speakers: specifications

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jfs View Post

I listened to a set of larger bookshelf speakers. I found the sound a bit harsh. I was told that with smaller speakers the base wasn't deep enough and this caused the treble to be harsher or more biting. I listened to them in a larger room. I also thought this might have something to do with it.
Does having a lower base result in better higher frequencies?

Thanks.
All I can tell you is that’s not my experience. In the last few months I’ve listened to several “bookshelf” speakers and none of them had a harsh top end.

Tell who ever told you that to listen to a pair of Sonus Faber Concertino Domus, they are one of the most “anti-harsh” speakers I’ve ever heard.


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Old 17-01-2009, 7:04 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: How do I choose speakers: specifications

Quote:
VoodooDoctor
What is your budget and what sort of room (size, furnishings, floors etc)are
you looking to put the system in?
Probably looking at spending around $400/£217 for a pair of stereo speakers, so looking at something used.
Room about 15' x 15'. I sit about 7' away from speakers. I rent so I don't want to go too big (don't know what the next situation will be for size.) Floor is carpet. I have an office desk that I use for computer. a couch and reclyner, coffee table, and cabinet for the microwave. It's a basement suite and the living room connects into the dining room and the kitchen.


In Isco 3 link to Home Cinema Speakers it says:
Quote:
A good home cinema room should be able to play at theatrical levels effortlessly. That would mean 105db at the listener's position from every speaker and 115db from the LFE channel.
Wouldn't that be loud? How much volume do I need for music?

Last edited by Jfs; 18-01-2009 at 1:54 PM.
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Old 17-01-2009, 11:30 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: How do I choose speakers: specifications

To some extent, when you are down to actual buying, your budget dictates every thing.

Though this is worth noting - $400/£217. First can we assume that is US dollars, and why are you quoting dollars? Are you in the USA?

If you are, the game changes considerable. No, not the specs, but the available speakers. It doesn't do any good to recommend Kef, if all you can find is Polk Audio.

If you are in the UK or Europe, then we can probably start pointing at some real speakers. If you are in the USA, try JR.com .

As to loudness and specifically 105db and 115db, I think that is a bit of a stretch.

Hearing damage due to SHORT TERM exposure begins at about 120db.

Damage due to long term exposure begins at about 85db.

A jet engine at 100 meters ranges from 110db to 140db.

110db would be disco and rock concert levels.

A jackhammer at 1 meter is about 100db.

Once you cross into the range of 130db, you are literally experiencing pain.

Though do keep in mind that in a small room, you can reach or exceed 100db with very little applied power. It only takes 1 watt to bring a speaker close to 90db, which is very loud. So, to exceed 100db would take an estimated 10 to 15 watts.

Just a few random thoughts.

Steve/bluewizard
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Old 18-01-2009, 3:11 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: How do I choose speakers: specifications

I live in Canada.

How do I match the speakers to the amp?
Is it enough to consider the total db output of the amp and speakers as long
as the amp fits into the recommended range of the speaker's requirements for power?
Does more amp power control the speakers better?

Anything else to consider?

Thanks for all the input. I appreciate the help.
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Old 18-01-2009, 6:47 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: How do I choose speakers: specifications

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jfs View Post
I live in Canada.

How do I match the speakers to the amp?
Is it enough to consider the total db output of the amp and speakers as long
as the amp fits into the recommended range of the speaker's requirements for power?
Does more amp power control the speakers better?

Anything else to consider?

Thanks for all the input. I appreciate the help.
Matching speakers to your amp? You don't. You buy the amp you want and you buy the speakers you want. All amps are compatible with all speakers.

That's not to say there aren't characteristics, but precisely matching amp and speakers is a very subtle and exacting science, and there are few people who can do it with any accuracy.

Next, forget about db output. Any amp you buy with any speaker combination you are likely to buy is going to go LOUD, louder than you need it to be. Also remember that a lot of bad db's is never as good as fewer good db's.

As for power requirements, as long as your amp and speakers are close to the same rated power, you shouldn't have to worry. Though do note, whether you have an overpowered or underpowered amp, you can damage your speakers. A little common sense goes a long way to preventing this.

As to overall amp power, as long as you have enough...well...you have enough. 50 to 100 watts is more than enough for most consumers.

Now, if you have money to burn, you could move up into expensive super power amps, but very few of us have money to burn. But expensive super power amps also mean very expensive speakers.

Steve/bluewizard

Last edited by BlueWizard; 18-01-2009 at 7:00 PM.
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