[gex18]

I have made a few threads recently regarding which 5.0 or 5.1 speaker system to buy, now something I overlooked (rather foolishly) was just how small the space to house the speakers is! The diagreams below show how the rear speakers will have to be placed and 2 different ways the front speakers will possibly be placed. Are these placements ok? Or will the soundstage be ruined? Id prefer the front speakers to be all under the TV however the L and R speakers will literally be touching the centre speaker.

Maybe id be best with just a decent 2.0 system for the time being?

Anyway diagrams below (please excuse the shockingly poor paint skills) :
Rear speaker placement :

Front Speaker placement 1 :

Front right speaker placement 2:

Front left speaker placement 2 :
[IMG]

[/IMG]

I hope you can help.

Many thanks

Anthony

[ARNOLD AKIEN]

Originally Posted by gex18

I have made a few threads recently regarding which 5.0 or 5.1 speaker system to buy, now something I overlooked (rather foolishly) was just how small the space to house the speakers is! The diagreams below show how the rear speakers will have to be placed and 2 different ways the front speakers will possibly be placed. Are these placements ok? Or will the soundstage be ruined? Id prefer the front speakers to be all under the TV however the L and R speakers will literally be touching the centre speaker.

Maybe id be best with just a decent 2.0 system for the time being?

I hope you can help.

Many thanks

Anthony

Not to worry about the improvised Artwork which does give reasonable impression of your problem . I'm generally opposed to small Egg Type speaker 5.1 systems but you may well be forced to use something along those lines in this situation.

However, depending on how much money you can afford there are other options that are flat enough to go to either side of your TV screen and below it. For instance there are these ...

" Acoustic Energy Aelite OnWall speakers " ....

Acoustic Energy Aelite OnWall speakers 1/2 Price RRP249 on eBay, also, Speakers Hi Fi, Home Audio Hi Fi, Consumer Electronics (end time 13-Jan-09 12:18:38 GMT)


at £99.95 each plus postage.

Rear speakers are a bit tricky in so small a space but you could consider mounting DIPOLE SPEAKERS on the walls to the sides of the listening position ....

Just as an example .....

" WHARFEDALE DIAMOND 9.DFS DIPOLE SPEAKERS (PAIR) "


WHARFEDALE DIAMOND 9.DFS DIPOLE SPEAKERS (PAIR) - available from Superfi UK Visit http://www.superfi.co.uk/index.cfm/page/moreinfo.cfm/product_id/2204 for details

If money is really tight then you could consider the ....

" TANNOY SFX 5.1 SPEAKER SYSTEM " ....

TANNOY SFX 5.1 SPEAKER SYSTEM - available from Superfi UK Visit http://www.superfi.co.uk/index.cfm/page/moreinfo.cfm/product_id/3804 for details

I have seen that kit mentioned on the forum as being available at an even lower price but I've just checked on that dealers site and its out of stock.

Whatever you chose in the way of shallow or diminutive speakers you will still need to put a doorstop behind that door to prevent it slamming back into your right hand speaker.

Would you like to go further up market? You can get custom speakers that will be let into the wall ....

Custom Audio Speakers Systems – For People Who Love Sound - Bowers & Wilkins | B&W Speakers

The old rule about ' if you need to ask the price then you can't afford them ' applies for those I think.

Or, if you do want to settle for 2.1, then there's this ....

" WHARFEDALE PPS1 PICTURE FRAME 2.1 SPEAKER SYSTEM ".....

WHARFEDALE PPS1 PICTURE FRAME 2.1 SPEAKER SYSTEM - available from Superfi UK Visit http://www.superfi.co.uk/index.cfm/page/moreinfo.cfm/product_id/4686 for details

I think that I've seen that even cheaper on the Richer Sounds site .. ah, yes, a bit under £50 but very limited availability ...

Richer Sounds - The UK's Hi-Fi, Home Cinema & Flat Panel Tv Specialists!

The general design rule would be to hang whatever you chose on the wall but prevent the door from opening too far and banging into a shallow profile speaker.

I suppose you could rehang the door to hinge in the other direction but that would present other problems. Or you could always cut a speaker sized hole in the door ?

Oh, and whilst I wouldn't like to be shut into a room that size with a sub woofer speaker you might like to consider a small sub from the BK range ....

Minotaur


Not a Monolith I think ... unless you go in for a really strange form of masochism.

Hope this helps.

Arnold.

[gex18]

Thanks for the detailed reply

This setup wont remain in the bedroom forever, only got a year or so, but as you mentioned an egg style speaker system may be best suited. I have been looking at the KEF KHT 2005.3 package - I have seen it online for £499 (but am awaiting confirmation of stock).

My budget is £850 (including interconnects / stands).

In that size bedroom what would you guys choose? A stylized 5.1 package of KEF KHT2005.3s? Just how poor will these bewith music? Or a pair of B&W 695s / XTZ 93 WMTs as a 2.0 setup? My initial reason upgrade from my current all in one system was to benefit from the new HD formats available.

The receiver will either be a Denon 1909, Yamaha 763 or Onkyo 606.

Many thanks

Anthony

[gex18]

Im in the difficult position of either a) choosing the style speaker option with 'pods' so the speakers arent cramped together and suffering with poor quality sound or b) choosing a 'proper' system with the front 3 speakers being cramped together and not in the ideal positions.

What would you guys do?

After having emailed a a few places I have got the following prices for speaker packages :

KEF KHT 2005.3 (gloss black) and Denon 1909 - £875

or

Wharfedale Diamond 9 HCP (but with the front speakers upgraded to Diamond 9.1s) and Denon 1909 reciever for £750 (all in black).

So which would you choose? In a very small bedroom (9.5ish feet long by 7 feet wide). The TV is already in (42" PZ85 panasonic) just need to get the audio up to scratch now

Just to throw a spanner in the works - otherwise would a pair of B&W 685s or XTZ 93 WMTs be preferable in this small space (again coupled with the Denon 1909 receiver)?

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts

Many thanks

Anthony

[ARNOLD AKIEN]

Originally Posted by gex18

Im in the difficult position of either a) choosing the style speaker option with 'pods' so the speakers arent cramped together and suffering with poor quality sound or b) choosing a 'proper' system with the front 3 speakers being cramped together and not in the ideal positions.

What would you guys do?

After having emailed a a few places I have got the following prices for speaker packages :

KEF KHT 2005.3 (gloss black) and Denon 1909 - £875

or

Wharfedale Diamond 9 HCP (but with the front speakers upgraded to Diamond 9.1s) and Denon 1909 reciever for £750 (all in black).

So which would you choose? In a very small bedroom (9.5ish feet long by 7 feet wide). The TV is already in (42" PZ85 panasonic) just need to get the audio up to scratch now

Just to throw a spanner in the works - otherwise would a pair of B&W 685s or XTZ 93 WMTs be preferable in this small space (again coupled with the Denon 1909 receiver)?

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts

Many thanks

Anthony

Anthony,

Just a quick reply since I don't want to monopolize advice to you on this.

Clearly you like Denon which make is indeed, in my experience - I have a 2808 - more musical than it's rivals. My experience though lies with a preference for Jazz and Female vocals and that taste is complimented by Denons Laid Back Civilized sort of sound and is further reflected by my choice of B and W speakers and an Arcam CD deck which is connected to the denon with cord cobra analogue interconnects with music being played in the Pure setting so that the Music that is produced by my B and W 704 front left and right is in Stereo ... and very Good it is Too .. to my ears.

It's the total balance of equipment that gives you the end result and you REALLY should audition your prospective system with your own music and DVD s before you buy.

As for your situation. If you can't bear to wait a year or so until you Know what your playing /viewing situation will be then everything that you do should be geared toward flexibility and if you spent, say, £500 on an egg system that would sort of work for Home Cinema in your present space .. what then in a year or two?

I suggest that you forget about surround sound for the moment or if you just cant wait that you should go for the cheapish TANNOY SFX 5.1 SPEAKER SYSTEM that I've already mentioned ... or maybe pay more for the Wharfedale 5.1 system.

In my opinion your best bet for immediate use would be the Denon plus the B and W speaker pair ... which you could use as rear speakers in a 5.1 system after you have moved to your new home. I have 685 s as my rear speakers and they are a fraction over the top in my room but they do suit me. You might consider going a little down the B and W line and buy the 686 .....

View the 686 at Bowers & Wilkins - The World's leading Home Theatre Brand


Plus maybe a Bk sub if you must go for 2.1 with deeper Bass and then borrow a couple of small speakers - almost anything will do - as rears just to experiment with surround sound.

The Wharfedales would work well with the Denon but are going to cost you more than a two speaker plus Sub and so why not wait and preserve your options of an upgraded system that will work well in the room that you will use an a year or two rather than one that will sort of work in your present space?

You don't mention your source but do mention music. DVD/Blue Ray players at the budget level aren't as good at playing music as CD Players which are custom designed for that purpose.


Arnold.

[gex18]

Many thanks for taking the time to reply to me, its much appreciated

I understand what your saying, every part of the system from the receiver down to the speaker cable affect the way it sounds eventually, I will take this into consideration.

As much as I LOVE the look of the B&W speakers, I feel its a fruitless exercise going for a 2.0 or 2.1 setup, as my initial reason for upgrading was to take advantage of the new Dolby and DTS HD audio formats.

The systems use would break down to 40% film, 40% gaming and 20% music, with my musical tastes being varied from the laid back acoustics of nick drake and jose gonzalez, to lemonjelly and classical music. The music would be initially played through the PS3 for now (not ideal i know) with the idea of upgrading to a NAD CD player in a few months.

I have had the following prices for various packages :

Denon 1909 receiver + KEF KHT 2005.3 - £875

Onkyo 606, MA BR2 x 2, MA BR1 x 2, MA BRCLR centre speaker - £779 (only 5.0 setup though)

Onkyo 606, MS Alumni Package - £778

Denon 1909, Wharfedale 9.1 x 2, 9.0 x 2, 9cc centre x 1 and SW150 - £750

I have previously owned the KEF KHT 2005.1 package, and upgraded the front L + R to KEF IQ5s for hifi use, so id consider it 'failry flexible' as the eggs can be utilized as extra surrounds for a 7.1 system, which maybe worth considering again (or IQ7s).

I dont have a fixed date when I will be moving this into a house of my own, all im sure of as it will be 2010 (the earlier the better though).

I wont be buying this system for a couple of weeks yet (i still cant dispense of the idea of a pair of B&W 686s on stands though)

So still clueless as to which route to go down

Many thanks once again

Anthony

P.s. _ regarding the idea of an eventual B&W 5.1 setup, how well would say the older B&W 601 or 602 speakers integrate with the 685s (would use them for rear surrounds)?

[ARNOLD AKIEN]

Originally Posted by gex18

Many thanks for taking the time to reply to me, its much appreciated

I understand what your saying, every part of the system from the receiver down to the speaker cable affect the way it sounds eventually, I will take this into consideration.

As much as I LOVE the look of the B&W speakers, I feel its a fruitless exercise going for a 2.0 or 2.1 setup, as my initial reason for upgrading was to take advantage of the new Dolby and DTS HD audio formats.

The systems use would break down to 40% film, 40% gaming and 20% music, with my musical tastes being varied from the laid back acoustics of nick drake and jose gonzalez, to lemonjelly and classical music. The music would be initially played through the PS3 for now (not ideal i know) with the idea of upgrading to a NAD CD player in a few months.

I have had the following prices for various packages :

Denon 1909 receiver + KEF KHT 2005.3 - £875

Onkyo 606, MA BR2 x 2, MA BR1 x 2, MA BRCLR centre speaker - £779 (only 5.0 setup though)

Onkyo 606, MS Alumni Package - £778

Denon 1909, Wharfedale 9.1 x 2, 9.0 x 2, 9cc centre x 1 and SW150 - £750

I have previously owned the KEF KHT 2005.1 package, and upgraded the front L + R to KEF IQ5s for hifi use, so id consider it 'failry flexible' as the eggs can be utilized as extra surrounds for a 7.1 system, which maybe worth considering again (or IQ7s).

I dont have a fixed date when I will be moving this into a house of my own, all im sure of as it will be 2010 (the earlier the better though).

I wont be buying this system for a couple of weeks yet (i still cant dispense of the idea of a pair of B&W 686s on stands though)

So still clueless as to which route to go down

Many thanks once again

Anthony

P.s. _ regarding the idea of an eventual B&W 5.1 setup, how well would say the older B&W 601 or 602 speakers integrate with the 685s (would use them for rear surrounds)?

Given the current Housing Situation who knows when you might be able to move house ? I have resolved NEVER again to tease people over how much, or how little, my first 2 bedroom Semi cost me way back when in the very Late 1970s - the figure £9,500 would never pass my lips

In my limited experience B and W speakers do integrate pretty well across similar ranges and so my 704 s work well with a 600 series center and 600 series rears and I did originally intend to use 600 system floor-standers as Front left and right but was Tempted by the dark side of the 700 series...

View the 684 at Bowers & Wilkins - The World's leading Home Theatre Brand

Slightly older B and Ws should work pretty well with the current range. When in doubt ASK B and W ...

" B&W Group Ltd - UK Sales
Dale Road
Worthing, West Sussex
BN11 2BH

Tel: +44 (01903) 221 500

Fax: +44 (01903) 221 501
Email: uksales@bwgroup.com
Web: Hi-Fi, Home Theater & iPod® Speakers – Bowers & Wilkins | B&W Speakers "


" (i still cant dispense of the idea of a pair of B&W 686s on stands though "

The 'footprint ' of B and Ws on stands wouldn't be too far off the ' Footprint ' of a pair of 600 series floor standers and you would have to add the price of decent quality stands to the budget ... you would save a bit in terms of cost but would also lose in bass if using front L and R speakers as a stereo pair for music and your taste in music would, I think , suit Denon/ B and W or Arcam B and W or any variation of the same.

I chose the 704s as being better able to handle music and Bass in Music in Stereo without the Sub in the circuit ... straight from my Arcam CD player using the Denon 2808 for amplification only and on wards to the 704 s. Movies come from a Samsung 1400 at the moment .. singing Nobody Knows The Firmware Updating Trouble I Seen No-Body Knows the Sorrow and so on ...... but that will be replaced with a Pioneer 71 real soon now. At least your PS3 wont give you those sort of problems but then as you already appreciate it wont give you a particularly good performance with music and so with your new Denon Receiver you might hunt for a modestly priced CD player in the sales .. my Arcam cost me a little over £200 but you can do pretty well with marantz on pricing at end of range levels as well as with nad and I just used a pair of old cord analogue interconnects that I had in my spares box.

Frankly I do doubt whether you'd get very much from the new Movie Sound Codecs in your present room ... they are not a sort of sonic Magic Wand. It is Of Course Entirely up to you but you might be better off doing what you can in that Room Really Well whilst planning to do Much Better when you Can.My best advice is that, given present technological attainments, only so much can be done with your existing space and so you'd be wise to Plan on Doing Better Later and trying to strive for upgradability from whatever you might buy now.

You already have a good deal of experience in upgrading and it does strike me that you might be in a bit too much of a hurry to buy New STUFF as a complete solution and At Once if not sooner and in that case the Denon/ Wharfedale kit would probably be your best bet for Music and Movies but I just don't know how critical the Games Balance might be since I'm still irritated by the failure of my old Doom Legacy type games to work with Vista on my newer computers: Stuff the New version of DOOM, if I want a story I read a book or watch a movie, with Games I just want to SHOOT Things!.

You need a New Room Straight Away and at Once as well as New Equipment ... but then you already know that don't you ?

Happy Equipment Hunting!


Arnold.

[gex18]

Thanks one again for your detailed and informative reply, its given me food for thought

The only reason I want to get it all at once is this is the only time for a few years I will be in the position of buying such luxuries (after all once the mortgage man, electric man and gas man all take their cut not a lots left).

But with the size of my room I really wonder just how much good even a standard dolby digital 5.1 setup is? I mean if the soundfield is as constriced as it is then surely its of no real benefit to me, or am i just going a bit mad?.

Im starting to think along the lines of buying either a decent pair of floorstanders (but anything in my budget is going to be compromised), or a beefy set of standmounts in stereo setup (the only prob is when watching a film, in the back of my mind ill be thinking 'this would be better with a 5.1 setup)

So with my meagre budget of £900 (or £300 according to the OH) Im thinking either :

Denon 1909 + KEF IQ5SE floorstanding speakers + possibly the IQ6 centre (with the possibility of adding a sub and IQ1 or 3s in the future)

Denon 1909 + B&W 686s or maybe even Diamond 9.2s, MA BR2s (save some cash and upgrade in the future)

My question to you is, with the £900, which upgrade path would you take? 5.1, stereo? Better amp?

Im very unsure atm.

Many thanks

Anthony

[ARNOLD AKIEN]

Originally Posted by gex18

Thanks one again for your detailed and informative reply, its given me food for thought

The only reason I want to get it all at once is this is the only time for a few years I will be in the position of buying such luxuries (after all once the mortgage man, electric man and gas man all take their cut not a lots left).

But with the size of my room I really wonder just how much good even a standard dolby digital 5.1 setup is? I mean if the soundfield is as constriced as it is then surely its of no real benefit to me, or am i just going a bit mad?.

Im starting to think along the lines of buying either a decent pair of floorstanders (but anything in my budget is going to be compromised), or a beefy set of standmounts in stereo setup (the only prob is when watching a film, in the back of my mind ill be thinking 'this would be better with a 5.1 setup)

So with my meagre budget of £900 (or £300 according to the OH) Im thinking either :

Denon 1909 + KEF IQ5SE floorstanding speakers + possibly the IQ6 centre (with the possibility of adding a sub and IQ1 or 3s in the future)

Denon 1909 + B&W 686s or maybe even Diamond 9.2s, MA BR2s (save some cash and upgrade in the future)

My question to you is, with the £900, which upgrade path would you take? 5.1, stereo? Better amp?

Im very unsure atm.

Many thanks

Anthony

I'd go for the Denon Receiver and a decent pair of B and W floor-standers ... and a Heavy Bolt for That Door so it doesn't slam into your R hand Floor-stander which you can then move when it isn't in use since a Floorstander can be moved more easily than a Speaker plus stand. The trouble is that does push your budget since it can be hard to get discounts on B and W and I was quoted £699 for a pair of 684 s and the Denon is a touch under £300 at Richer Sounds.

You already know the Kef sound and so pairing the Denon with the Kefs shouldn't be an unknown quantity whilst Wharfedales .. and so it goes

I could even throw in the fact that at one stage I did consider the ...

ACOUSTIC ENERGY AELITE 3 SPEAKERS ....

ACOUSTIC ENERGY AELITE 3 SPEAKERS (PAIR) - available from Superfi UK Visit http://www.superfi.co.uk/index.cfm/page/moreinfo.cfm/product_id/1822 for details

BUT rather cheaper at Price £538.24 priced as pairs HERE ...


https://www.forumhifivisual.co.uk/Sp...te_3_1795.html

This is what their complete 5.1 kit would look like when you upgrade ...

https://www.forumhifivisual.co.uk/Sp...kage_1798.html

You can Mass load those Front speakers so as to tailor the bass .. but I would not have gone for the kiln dried sand option but rather used ... Atabites ...

Atacama show us Atabites and talk to us about deserts! (What Hifi Stuff Show 2006)

I did consider this but then went way upmarket with the 704s on the basis that 2008 was a rotten year and, anyway, as the make-up advert says 'because I deserve it '.

Anyway the Deon plus the ACOUSTIC ENERGY AELITE 3 SPEAKERS would be within your budget and could easily be expanded at a later date into a 5.1 system whilst the Denon plus B and W s would be a bit outside your budget unless you can get a package deal .. it's worth trying but it's not easy getting a deal on B and W speakers though that was then and now dealers may be rather more eager to negotiate.

If you have the Denon AV Receiver then you can always borrow bookcase speakers to try out as rears which will give you some impression of surround sound in your present room . Go for decent stereo for music with the possibility of experimentation and upgrade to 5.1 with the decently musical Denon AV receiver.

Arnold.

[gex18]

Thanks gor yet another reply

Its really down to what I want out of the system.

So its either Denon 1909 + KEF 2005.3 system (with fronts being upgraded to IQ5SEs later in the year and bi wired)

or

Denon 1909 plus B+W 686s

or Denon 1909 plus Wharfedale Diamond 9.2 standmouonts or 9.4 floorstanders (can add 9.0s or 9.1s as surrounds later on)

I dont know why I keep adding shortlists, I guess im trying to convince myself rather then ask which one

Will have to make a decision soon though.

Many thanks

Anthony

[bohane]

have you ever considered taking the door of and hanging it the other way? so it either opens on to the landing/hallway (make sure you dont knock your nan down the stairs though) or so that it opens the opposite way, so it wouldn't open onto the front speaker if you went for floorstaders. or a sliding door on rails? or even a concertina type folding door would do the job


andy

[gex18]

Originally Posted by bohane

have you ever considered taking the door of and hanging it the other way? so it either opens on to the landing/hallway (make sure you dont knock your nan down the stairs though) or so that it opens the opposite way, so it wouldn't open onto the front speaker if you went for floorstaders. or a sliding door on rails? or even a concertina type folding door would do the job


andy

Lol, a true av fan there, never compromise on the AV equipment, only on the house layout

Im thinking of purchasing a 'decent' (i use the term loosely as to mose on here this is a basic package) monitor audio 5.0 speaker package initially, I ave managed to work a price of £450 for 1 pair of BR2s, 1 pair of BR1s and 1 BRLCR centre speaker, together with a Denon 1909 receiver. I will then add an REL or BK subwoofer at a later date methinks.

I just hope the BR2s will be good for music as well as movies? As im planning on bi-wiring (or is that bi-amping) them.

Thanks for all the advice.

Regards

Anthony

[ChrisAV]

Originally Posted by gex18

I just hope the BR2s will be good for music as well as movies? As im planning on bi-wiring (or is that bi-amping) them.

Thanks for all the advice.

Regards

Anthony

Bi-wring is just running additional lengths of cable to the second set of terminals (and removing the bridging plate) (see manual connections)

Bi-amping also uses a second set of cables but also uses a second set of connectors on the rear of the amp (on my Yamaha it's the surround back cannectors) and telling the amp to use the in Bi-amp mode - don't know if te denon will do this, check the manual.

Chris

[bohane]

hey just another idea.....how about moving your bed up to the other end of the room lol just kidding, but to be honest that is that is what i would probably do but on a more serious note, from what i hear the br2s are very good speakers for music and the denon is quite musical for an av amp so you shold be pretty pleased with your selection.

andy

[gex18]

Originally Posted by bohane

hey just another idea.....how about moving your bed up to the other end of the room lol just kidding, but to be honest that is that is what i would probably do but on a more serious note, from what i hear the br2s are very good speakers for music and the denon is quite musical for an av amp so you shold be pretty pleased with your selection.

andy

I hope so, I have done so much research on various speakers, stands, receivers and the like, im more confused now then when i started

Im 'reconsidering' the Wharfedale setup of 9.1s up front, 9.CC centre and 9.0s as surrounds - these work out £120 cheaper then te discounted £450 price for te MA bronze setup, are the MA BR speakers a stepup from the Wharfedales? I also maybe considering a Pioneer VSX1018 (bargain at £399), just how 'musical' is this receiver (can find no owners / info on this forum).
I have made a some firm decisions though:

* The front speakers will be standmounted on Atacama Nexus Stands.

* Regarding a subwooer - im going to get a second hand REL storm or similar off the classifieds in a few months

I'll be glad when I have the money to just go out and buy a bloomin' setup

Many thanks

Anthony

[gex18]

Just out of interest - as the front speakers will be sitting approx 55cm apart (due to room size constraints they will be under the tv at either edge), is a centre speaker really neccesary? If not then I think Quad 11L2 fronts with Quad L-ites performing surround dutied would be fine - how would a 4.1 setup handle the HD formats though?

Many thanks

Anthony