Buy best standmounts to comply with ITU speaker placement for multi channel music!!!

[SWALK]

Has anyone considered having 5 identical full range speakers to comply with ITU speaker placement standards for multi channel music playback.

My experiences with 5.1 AV speakers has led me to prefer all matching front, center and rear surround speakers beneficial for SACD DVD Audio playback.

Am I the only one?

[SWALK]

XTZ 93 WMT would have to buy before I try with these so how do they compare. Are they suitable for SACD, DVD-Audio as the upper frequency cuts at 20Khz.

Would I be better of considering the MA BR2's? instead but these are not available discounted. So Whardale Diamond 9.1's may be just right.

[SWALK]

Why is ultrasonic frequency extension beneficial for SACD, DVD-Audio?
Why do speakers now extend into ultrasonic inaudible upper frequencies?

[KelvinS1965]

I thought I'd better respond seeing as you a new member and seem to be not getting any replies. Speakers are really such a personal thing you'd have to demo them to see if the MA BR2s are worth the extra to you over the Wharfedale Diamonds. I would have thought there should be plenty of shops that carry both of these makes. The XTC range is a little different in that I believe you can only buy these direct, but I presume you can still return them if not suitable?

Having matching fronts definatley makes a difference with movies, but the surrounds seem less critical (especially with Audyssey EQ to help 'match' each speaker's response). With music it would be more noticable as it's easier to notice a small surround speaker sounding 'boxy' with music, than a random sound effect that you have no reference for. I used to have my SACD player connected using the external 7.1 inputs on my amp, but I deliberatley connected the surrounds to my rear surround speakers (which are monopole) and this gives near enough the correct angle for the speakers. It sounded much better this way, even though my rears are small M&K and the fronts are PMC, so it's as much about the settings of the levels and positioning of the speakers.

Trouble is that I found 5.1 music a bit of a novelty and the sounds coming from behind were often out of place, so I haven't bought any SACD discs for some time.

[SWALK]

Monitor Audio BR2's are my favourites. Are XTZ 93 WMT better value.

[SWALK]

Having matching fronts and rears to maintain tonal balance for music is the point here. Straying from the extra drivers normally found in front center and surround effects speakers intended to enhance movie playback.

[BlueWizard]

I believe the Wharfedale speaker that is the closest match to the BR2 in terms of price would be the Diamond 9.2, not the 9.1.

The main difference is the size and composition of the woofer and tweeter.

The BR2 has a 5.5" (roughly 140mm) metalized woofer and a metal dome tweeter.

The 9.1 has roughly a 5.25" (130mm) Kevlar woofer and a soft dome (likely silk) tweeter.

The 9.2 and 9.4, both have a 6.5" (165mm) Kevlar woofers and soft dome tweeters. The 9.2 is bookshelf, the 9.4 is a floorstanding speakers, other than that, they are the same, both are the same price.

Some people find metal or metalized speakers a little too bright and harsh, other equally find them exceptionally crisp and clear. It is really a matter of subjective opinion, and what you are used to listening to.

So, can I assume you are trying to create a 5.1 music playback system using all 5 identical speakers? I ask because you keep mentioning other non-matching speakers, so I'm unclear.

The rear two don't necessarily have to size match the front and center. You could move down one model in which ever brand you finally choose, and use those for the rear. Say, BR2 as front three and BR1 or BRFX as rear. Alternately, Diamond 9.2/9.4 as front three and 9.1 or 9.0 as rear. I don't see a problem with that.

In your case, 9.4 tower speakers for the left and right, 9.2 bookshelf center, and any of 9.2, 9.1, or 9.0 for rear speakers. Plus the Sub of your choice.

Assuming you will alway use a Subwoofer, you could use three MA centers across the front. Sounds illogical, but the MTM (Midbass, Tweeter, Midbass) works exceptionally well for video playback and for music.

The MA BRCLR has two 5.5" woofer and a 1" dome tweeter in a sealed cabinet. The sealed cabinet accounts for the reduction in bass response, but, as I said, if you alway use it with a Sub, then it is a minor point. But I digress.

I think either of the systems you are looking at, or the variations I have suggested, will produce a very good sound system.

The XTZ are highly rated; amazingly highly rated. But it depends on your budget. The basic 93WMT are only £155 per pair and you can buy them individually to use as a center. Solves the problem of a spare 6th speaker laying around.

The next step up in XTZ would be the 99.25 and 99.26 which are £520/pair (depending on finish), which, budget wise, is a big step upward. Also, these are available as a single speaker for a center.

It seems that one XTZ system puts you well under budget, and the other, well over budget. Tough decision.

If you read the review in this forum on the 93WMT, please read to the end of the thread. The XTZ do take some time to get broken in. Eventually the reviewer rates them higher than his SVS, and the 99.25 have been rated higher than M&K. That's a pretty high ratings in either case.

Now, as you suggest, while you can skimp on rear speakers, you certainly don't have to. If all matching speakers appeals to you, and you can afford it, then go for it.

"Why do speakers now extend into subsonic inaudible upper frequencies?"

It is not all about what you hear, sometimes it is about what you feel, and the perceived richness of the music. This is more true of video playback than audio playback. Many times in video playback a quick low frequency phase shift will produce a shockwave that sweeps across the room. You feel that shockwave, but very likely do not hear it as sound.

Now certainly there is sound accompanying the shockwave -bang, crash, rumble, etc.... That is a special effect that enhances the movie listening experience. But in all honesty, I can get the same sensation listening with my stereo. I just can't get the same immersion surround effect with stereo.

In running frequency response tests on my speakers, I found that at normal volumes, I can only hear slightly under 30hz. So, I don't see a lot of value in response down to 10hz. And certainly don't see the value in music playback. Any music playback that is using sub 30hz tones is likely doing it as a gimmick and I'm not real big on 'gimmick' music.

Just a few random thoughts.

Steve/bluewizard

[SWALK]

Five full range speakers, all the same, no compromises! Front three on identical stands with TV mounted above on wall. The rear surrounds can only be mounted above head hight on wall brackets, so not ideal.

Diamond 9.1 or XTZ 93 WMT

[SWALK]

I reckon the front port designs make for easier placement. So the XTZ as tweakable as it maybe might never be right for wall mounting.

[BlueWizard]

A slight correction, you asked why speakers extend into inaudible UPPER frequency and I answer for inaudible lower frequencies; sorry.

I'm not sure there is value in the hyper-high frequencies. I think in order to create smoother flatter tweeters in the audible range, it is beneficial to extend them up into the inaudible range. So, in a sense, I think hyper-high response is a secondary characteristics that looks good on paper, but doesn't mean much in terms of sound.

Have we actually established a budget here? The budget is somewhat implied in the speakers you have chosen, and seems to be in roughly the £500 to £600 range without a sub. Is that about right? Can you go higher? Can you go bigger than bookshelf?

Here is what I am thinking, four Aelite 2's and an Aelite Center. The center is virtually identical to the Aelite 2's but is meant to be placed horizontal.

Aelite 2's are about £250 a pair, and large bookshelfs in a MTM configuration (Midbass, Tweeter, Midbass). They have response down to 36hz which is fantastic for a bookshelf. The matching center is also about £265 for a single speaker, but it too is the same speakers in the same MTM configuration.

ACOUSTIC ENERGY AELITE 2 SPEAKERS (PAIR) (BLACK) - Superfi UK

ACOUSTIC ENERGY AELITE CENTRE SPEAKER - Superfi UK

There is always a small compromise in a horizontal center. Ideally you want the front three to be identical vertically positioned speakers as the same height. But for practical reason, the horizontal center has become, more or less, the default.

Since you haven't mentioned a Sub, because of their low frequency response, these might be a good choice for a system with only 5 speakers.

Really, the choices are near infinite, it is just a matter of setting your budget and priorities.

Just a few more thoughts.

Steve/bluewizard

[SWALK]

Yes sealed or front ported cabinets would allow for inevitable wall placement of centre/rears.
I've seen Quad 11L2 for £199 though these are not ideal for me (rear ported) an absolute bargain none the less. I suspect these would turn out to be a disaster for me with ports bunged as they are known to be too brittle.
Though the BR2's are just right I would prefer something similar but heavily discounted and irresistable.

I use a Rel Q100 sub at the moment with a mismatch of Mission 780(Aerogel),77C,77DS Yamaha DSP-AX861SE, DVD-S2700.

[phil t]

Originally Posted by SWALK

I've seen Quad 11L2 for £199 though these are not ideal for me an absolute bargain none the less.

And if you really hated the sound they made, how much of a bargin would they be?

[BlueWizard]

If you want something similar to the MA BR2, then consider the Wharfedale Diamond 9.2 at just under £200 per pair. They use 165mm (6.5") kevlar woofers and soft dome tweeters, and are front ported. Where as the MA use metalized woofers and metal dome tweeters.

The exact same speaker is available in a floorstanding version in the Diamond 9.4. The only difference is an extra 5hz bass extension from the larger cabinet. Sensitivity remains the same as does the price. I think these are closely enough match that their would be no problem with floorstanders in the front and bookshelf in the rear. Still, that is your choice or not.

You could use a 9.2 as the center, as you seem to prefer, or you could go for the 9.CS, or if you can find it, the larger 3-way center, the 9.CM.

Keep in mind that the entire Diamond line is built around the same series of drivers. So for a center, the 9.CS uses two 5" bass drivers identical to the Diamond 9.1. The 9.CM uses two 6.5 inch bass drivers, the same as the 9.2. I haven't check recently, but I think the 9.CM is roughly £200, same as a pair of 9.2. The 9.CM also adds the dome midrange from the 9.6.

Now I only recommend this as a workable alternative to the MA BR2. They are roughly the same price, similar specs, and similar design.

WHARFEDALE DIAMOND 9.2 SPEAKERS (PAIR) - Superfi UK

WHARFEDALE DIAMOND 9.4 SPEAKERS (PAIR) - Superfi UK

Steve/bluewizard

[SWALK]

Thank you BlueWizard. I will now look forward to audition the Wharfedales and Monitor Audio's. I use a REL Q100 and the main left speaker is already 50cm from side wall allowing a distance of up to 2m between the front speakers. So floorstanders would not work to their best. I've heard that the Diamond 9.2 are dull, hard to drive and no contest for the BR2's. The 9.1's are £99 and maybe the bargain I'm looking for. Ultimately its whichever one has the most revealing top end to match the warmth of the Yamaha Amp.

[SWALK]

I wonder how both thes options will compare to my existing mission 780 aerogel.