[Toffeeman]

Hi, I'm looking for a first hi-fi separates music system. Having read "What Hi-fi?" I've narrowed down my choices of products. I've been told that speakers is where I should spend most of my budget, and I'll go along with that.

My budget is around £500-800. I need an amp, speakers and CD player. The speakers I'm after are the B&W 685's or possibly the Kef IQ5se's. But where can I buy these for a reasonable price? I can't find any on play, amazon and pricerunner. I usually buy games, cds and I'm fine but this is a whole new world I'm oblivious to. Can anybody recommend some suppliers please?

The other question I have is, which CD player and amp can be recommended to use with the speakers I mentioned? Some people seem to think there's a difference, so I would appreciate any advice.
Amp budget £100-200.
CD player budget £100-200.

I should mention, this system is just for playing CD's.
Thanks in advance

[Cynar]

For this kind of money I'd go for Cambridge Audio or NAD for the amp and CD.
Have a look at Richer Sounds - they sell both. I'd personally go for whichever of the CA Azur range your budget will allow.
The B&W 685s should be about £380. Loads of good hifi shops sell B&W.
Superfi and Sevenoaks spring to mind.
Having said all that, I thoroughly recommend you go along and have a proper listen before you part with your hard earned cash.

[Toffeeman]

Ok, cheers. But what's NAD?
I had a quick google, nad.com but nothing when googled in UK.

[Andy98765]

The best thing you can do is stick a few favourite CD's in your pocket and pop down to good Hi-Fi shops and sit down and have a listen.

P.S. I know someone who has the Kef Q5's, I was not impressed. Use mags like What Hi-Fi to get a steer but use your ears to to make that final decision.
Live near Bristol? then the Hi-Fi show is on next month. http://www.bristolshow.co.uk/

Is this your budget? http://www.acoustic-energy.co.uk/E-S...ILS&RecordID=9 excellent price.

[sbowler]

Originally Posted by Andy98765

The best thing you can do is stick a few favourite CD's in your pocket and pop down to good Hi-Fi shops and sit down and have a listen..

Yup I agree there, My first system was a Nad amplifier quality gear. Listened at Image HIFI in Leeds. Budget 10% for cables and interconnects.

[inicholson]

The first thing you should do is stop reading What Hi-Fi unless you're going to take what they say (and while you're at it what anyone else says, including me) with a healthy dose of salt.

Find a few local hi-fi dealers. Tell them what your budget is. If they laugh because they don't sell anything that cheap laugh back because they haven't got any friends/a life/a girlfriend.

Ask them to let you listen to some stuff.

In all probability the salesman will be a nice guy who enjoys his job and just wants you to find a hi-fi you like. So let him help you.

Make sure you repeat this in several dealers.

Now go back to What Hi-Fi and see if you liked the stuff they liked. If you do see paragraph 1 above (except the bit in italics). If not ignore their advice completely.

Now you know what kind of stuff you like you have a basis for listening to other peoples' advice (keep the salt handy).

I would NEVER buy anything costing more than £10 based solely on someones else's opinion (that's a big enough budget for me to accept my doctor's prescriptions based on the fact that his knowledge of medicine is better than mine) no matter how much I admire them or which esteemed publication their opinion is published in.

P.S. You shouldn't spend most of your budget on the speakers (see paragraph 1)

[Toffeeman]

Thanks Andy, but I don't live near Bristol it meeeles away.
I guess the problem I have is finding places in Liverpool which have the B&Ws and the Kefs to compare. I've not heard of the speakers you've linked to, but I'll remember them. Where do you buy your bits from?

[Toffeeman]

Originally Posted by inicholson

The first thing you should do is stop reading What Hi-Fi unless you're going to take what they say (and while you're at it what anyone else says, including me) with a healthy dose of salt.

P.S. You shouldn't spend most of your budget on the speakers (see paragraph 1)

Thanks, interesting. I will try and listen to a few this weekend in Richer. I'm not sure whether What Hi-Fi recommends most of the budget on speakers, but my mate does. He's a quality freak with HD-DVD, Blu-ray, projectors, etc. He thinks speakers are essential, and spends big on his systems, so I'd be daft not to listen.

I will try and listen to a few to compare though, like you said. It's justing knowing where to go to compare them.

[Russell.Williams]

Originally Posted by Toffeeman

I'm not sure whether What Hi-Fi recommends most of the budget on speakers, but my mate does. He's a quality freak with HD-DVD, Blu-ray, projectors, etc. He thinks speakers are essential, and spends big on his systems, so I'd be daft not to listen.

With the best will in the world, a lot of people will recommend what they have, or what they've read, neither of which will get you closer to what you need or want.

I'd also challenge his assertion that you should spend most of your budget on speakers. That would be closer to true if you were requiring 5 or 7 of them but you're not.

It's one of the few hi-fi truths that remains unaltered in my humble opinion, that by far and away the most important part of the chain is the source. If you don't get the information off the CD, you will not get it back by throwing any amount of money at the amp and even more so, the speakers.

Large speakers are visually seductive, because lets be honest, they look cool. But a big pair of speakers requires gripping by a decent amp capable of controlling all of those drive units flapping around. If the amp can't, you'll end up with waffling, tune free bass, that will fill a room, but not with music.

If it were my £800, I'd be looking to do closer to more even £250 for each component with the extra going on the CD player, or some decent basic cables, like those available through the forum powerbuys.

The likes of NAD, Denon, Rotel, Marantz have all got some good CD/amp combos available for £500 and then knock yourself out on speakers (don't forget decent stands) and cabling.

That's just my thoughts

Russell

[Toffeeman]

Thanks Russ, I'll admit I know nothing about the techy details of the process of playing a CD via the player/amp/speakers, so I'll take your comments on board. I'll give a listen to a few setups this week in Richer with good bad amps / speakers etc to get an idea of what I like/prefer.

I think part of me possibly doesn't like the idea of spending £250 on a CD player as it seems obscene ;-)
Likewise an amp if it only does stereo. I was looking at spending a bit on speakers as they can be used for films in the future while a 5.1+ amp can also be used for flicks.

I suppose this time next week I'll be wiser and have an idea of what I like anyway.

[captainpacific]

I'm with Russ on this one - a good balance usually comes up trumps for any given budget, and the source is very important.

Yes, do go and listen to a few set ups. All our ears and preferences are different. It is your ears that count, so I won't suggest any particular models, especially where speakers are concerned.

One idea though - I have noticed some stunning second-hand deals on speakers lately (e.g. £1,000 pair in great nick for £200, eBay). You could save your money for the electronics and grab a bargain (and great quality) with seconds speakers!

[RossFlet]

Expectations of the sound you'll get is something you need to get your head around and to a large extent depends on what music you listen to. The demands on a system playing a single vocal line with acoustic guitar are a lot different from the same system playing Wagner in full flight with an ninety piece orchestra and multiple vocalists. Clarity is the thing here, not just raw power. Focus on the three components - CDP, amp and speakers. At the end of the market you are looking at, there aren't going to be vast differences between players at around the 200 pounds mark. Someone has recommended the Cambridge Azur 640 CD and amp and I would second that. These have been well reviewed even where I live:

http://www.audioenz.co.nz/2004/cambridge_azur.shtml

I realise this is more than you might want to spend on these items but if you spend less you're going to be disappointed. See what the same reviewer said about the cheaper model from Cambridge.

http://www.audioenz.co.nz/2005/cambridge_azur540.shtml

This doesn't leave much for the speakers but as someone has said, the source is paramount. A crap sound will still sound crap through 5000 pound speakers. So maybe 800 pounds won't be quite enough BUT

My advice to young guys buying for the first time is:

Be patient. Saving just a bit cash more might be the difference between a good system and an outstanding one.

Try to build up a rapport with the dealer. That way he's going to be agreeable to home trialling. Don't buy anything until you've tried it in your room. Particularly speakers.

Trust you ears. Make sure you take CDs with which you are familiar when you visit dealers and its not a bad idea to make some notes as memory joggers of what you heard as most people have poor retention of the sound a system makes


Ross

I'd recomment the second hand or ex dem route personally. I got my CD player and speakers ex dem and saved a lot of cash as a result. There are links in the forums somewhere for the best places / sites for second hand but good places to start are the classifieds on this forum and also www.audiophilecandy.com is quite good too but you can't bargain like you can on here.

[Russell.Williams]

The second hand route is certainly an extremely good way of streching a budget a huge way.

I just saw these on these very forum for instance, with quality Atacama stands available for under £200 the lot. Ignore the jazzy silver cable though.

That'd free up some money for really pushing the source and amp.

Russell

[Strobe]

I was in a similar situation (amp/cd/speakers for £700 budget). This is what I went for in the end :-
NAD C325BEE Amp & NAD C525BEE CDP £360
MA RS1 Speakers £262
Chord Cable 10m @ £3.60/m £36
Chord Interconnect £34
Atamaca Speakers Stands £63
Speakers were 25% off with Sevenoaks and they also gave me 10% of the bits as well.

[phil t]

Originally Posted by Toffeeman

I guess the problem I have is finding places in Liverpool which have the B&Ws and the Kefs to compare.

What HiFi list two dealers (in Mersyside) that carry both lines you’re interested in, one is in Southport. Is Southport too far to travel?

Originally Posted by Toffeeman

I think part of me possibly doesn't like the idea of spending £250 on a CD player as it seems obscene ;-)

I guess it’s all relative, but I don’t see how spending £400 on speakers isn’t obscene, yet £250 on an amp is? To be honest, I think I’d spread my budget more evenly. If you buy revealing speakers but (relative to the speakers) buy poor source/amp, all your speakers will reveal is how poor your other components are.

[inicholson]

I'm amazed. I thought I'd get shot down for telling you not to blow the budget on speakers. Instead everybody says spend most on the source (couldn't agree more).

You mentioned your reluctance to spend too much on a 2 channel amp and CD player because you could use the speakers for surround. That's opening up a whole new can of worms. Should you have two separate systems or one system that you use for AV and music?

Why not try listening to an AV system while you're there? It won't play music as well as a dedicated 2 channel hi-fi (they never do). But at the end of the day it all depends on how much you'll use it for music and how much for AV.

Whether you eventually end up with 2 separate systems, an AV system you play music or some sort of compromise (an AV system which uses the stereo for the front channels) is an entirely personal matter which depends on how much you will use it for music/AV and how much you're willing to compromise. I guess the ideal is separate systems in separate rooms but most of us can't do that!

[Toffeeman]

Cheers Phil, I called up the Southport dealer and they said they don't stock the B&Ws at the moment, but have the latest KEF IQ5se's. It's not too far, but I'll check out Richer first.

Thanks for your help everyone, family commitments have stopped me from checking out what Richersounds have to offer, but I'm determined to go this week and see for myself.

[Ightenhill]

One major problem your going to come up against in places like Richer Sounds is the Dem areas tend to be absolutely abysmal and they are often unlikely to let you take equipment home to dem it.. So bear in mind one important thing it wont sound the same in your room as it does when you dem it.

Other things to consider are your ears are what makes the final decision, not the editors advertising budget of a magazine. If your not tapping your foot along to the music somethings wrong. Leave enough in the kitty for cabling and support even at this level.

[inicholson]

Originally Posted by Ightenhill

One major problem your going to come up against in places like Richer Sounds.. ...they are often unlikely to let you take equipment home to dem it..

Just take a credit card, buy any stuff you like and return some/all of it before you get the next bill. Richer Sounds in Glasgow have always been happy with me doing that - although I have always bought one of the 3 items I borrowed in that way!