Budget current gen or expensive last gen sound cards?

[Tautitan]

Hi

I'm going to be getting a more upmarket set of headphones soon and in a few recommendations I've come across they say to make sure you have a decent quality sound card to go with them. Currently I'm using a Realtek ALC880 onboard chip. I am planning on buying the Beyerdynamic DT770 as they have gotten some great reviews and seem to suit my needs well. As they are 250 Ohm headphones will they be adequately driven by a sound card or should I use an external amplifier?

If I'm looking at getting a soundcard, does anyone have any recommendations? Good sound quality is paramount but I'd quite like optical out too. Budget of about £60 maximum. I can get an X-Fi Xtreme Music for around £45 but for the same price I can get an Audigy 2 Platinum. Would I be better off doing this as I would quite like the optical out so I can hook the PC upto a dvd player/amplifier for movies. How does the Audigy 2 sound quality compare with the X-Fi?

Thanks

Matt

[Erazerhead]

They won't be very loud not even with the audigy drive bay headphone amp => headphone amp is a better option for 250 Ohm headphones (they are really meant for use with the mixing desk) BUT I am sure there is 80 Ohm version of the very same model out there, too.

I use X-Fi with the drive bay, well worth the money, definitely better then Audigy 1 that I had before that. If you get X-Fi Gamer it is as good as Music card but comes with optical out and intel audio HD compatible front panel pins. Front panel connection is perhaps not great quality but it is handy to have. Later you can get separate dac and/or headphone amp.
Sure you can use output on the card itself, too, it'll be OK with 80 Ohm load, but not unnecessarily so with 250 Ohm.

[Tautitan]

Thanks for the reply, much appreciated, the x-fi gamer sounds like a good option for me. I did find the 80ohm version of the 770s but they seemed noticably more expensive than the 250ohm version and are a bit over my budget of £100. If the 250ohm version isn't really appropriate for my needs (it did seem a wee bit on the high side for a computer sound card to handle when I first saw it) then I will probably look for something different, could you recommend any circumaural 'phones that still have top notch sound quality for under £100? Once again thanks for the reply.

[Erazerhead]

Phones are very personal choice and a lot depends on what you listen to.
Comfort of use is very important I mean magnificent sound does not matter if you get headache from the pressure from the headphone band or the ear pads designed by those clever engineers not taking into account your XL British ear

So - I am not going to give you any definite answers, look up head-fi.org for recommendation from guys who have no life but headphones.

Myself I use DT990Pro (open design as opposed to closed design used by DT770) but I also use AKG K-55 (very light on bass though) and EP630 in-ear phones (decent quality for a very good price). Look up: Sennheiser, AKG, possibly Grado (some say it is the holy graal of headphones)

Actually: HD280 Pros might fit the bill for you, but make sure you try them before you buy - I did not like how they fit. They sounded good tho.

Good Luck

[Tautitan]

Thanks, you have been very helpful. I know what you mean about headphone fit, I have a cheap set of TDK 'phones at the moment but I really feel like my ears are on fire after wearing them for a few hours as they tend to crush them a bit. I have heard good things about the AKG 271s and as they are only 55ohm hopefully they would be better. As I just assumed that, being onboard audio, it was crap anyway, I have looked into it and it actually has S/PDIF out on it. Could I connect that to a headphone amp and get better sound than straight out of the analogue output of the x-fi and would an amp be better able to drive the 770s?

Thanks for the recommendations I'm such a noob when it comes to things like this as I never know what will and won't make a difference to the sound quality. As far as headphones go, bass is good, which is why I was originally drawn to the 770s, a lot of high end tends to get on my nerves after a bit, particularly if its repetitive. Music taste tends to vary wildly from week to week, this week it's sky.fm's piano jazz station but next week it could be classic rock, barely ever pop music though.

[Erazerhead]

AKG 271s used to be praised a lot among people mixing audio but will be dearer then £100 I think, unless you got a deal on them.

If you like strong bass closed cans will give you more of it, but this is deemed disadvantage by purists

Originally Posted by Tautitan

Could I connect that to a headphone amp and get better sound than straight out of the analogue output of the x-fi and would an amp be better able to drive the 770s?

In theory there is a difference in quality between 2 digital sources such as onboard audio and sound card. On one hand it is "just" the bitstream, but if you start going into technicalities there is more to it, primarily inherent digital noise referred as jitter and its level will vary from source to source.
As a general rule I prefer things that are built for purpose and not those that are supposed to be jack of all trades (and master of none). Motherboard audio is an after-thought, an extra meant to sell a mobo, not the solution designed from scratch by audio designers and engineers.

If you had DAC and the headphone amp already there would be no harm in hooking those to your onboard SPDIF, that's for sure, and seeing if you like it.

But as you are only planning to put your money into headphones and source now and you are on budget (at present) I'd say: get decent yet inexpensive sound card + good headphones. X-Fi gamer is a very good value option (If you wanted to stretch your budget there are more options from e.g. M-Audio or E-Mu).

[Tautitan]

Ahh I had heard of jitter but that's getting a bit too technical for me for now. I do like listening on headphones but they do lack that feel that you get from listening to a set of floorstanders at volume, something which I'm keen to replicate if only in some very small part. I have gone ahead and ordered the X-fi as per your recommendation and I'll have a look into other headphones on the other site you mentioned. The AKGs seem to be around £85 on amazon, cheaper if you buy them used but I don't think I'll be doing that because I have had bad experiences buying used audio gear from friends that conveniently develops a fault about two weeks afterwards lol.

One more question: the X-fi crystallizer has had a few mixed reviews, any idea whether it is better on or off?

[badbob]

If you get X-Fi Gamer it is as good as Music card but comes

No it's not. It's a stripped down version of the Music, with lower end DAC's and disabled features. As for the OP, if you want sound quality you don't buy Creative cards, there are better options (Envy or M-Audio) I have a Creative Extreme Music.

I had headphone connection problems too, so I just got a stereo integrated amp with a headphone socket on the front (Arcam Alpha 9) Speakers can be switched off whilst using phones. Better option than the X-Fi front panel/module as it'll last dozens of soundcard changes.

As for X-Fi soundmodes, set to entertainment mode, disable eax, cms3d, eq and crystilezer. Ideally though I'd return the Creative and get another card. Creative are good gaming cards (EAX) but have so-so sound quality.

[Erazerhead]

Originally Posted by Tautitan

One more question: the X-fi crystallizer has had a few mixed reviews, any idea whether it is better on or off?

Crystallizer is a sort of expander/enhancer/exciter. Makes sound crispier and artificially expands dynamics. This is not necessarily bad, but remember having it at 100% or always on will falsify music. Actually having any audio slider or knob at 100% is almost guaranteed to cause headaches and might distort sounds. But using lamps to warmify playback is as fake in my opinion, even if this goes against current popular beliefs or trends...

Ultimately you'll decide based on your own taste, hearing, type of music etc.

If you ask me if I use it - I have it off most of the time BUT I toggle it on and off quite often as it sometimes reveals interesting details from the ambiance. Especially with concert recordings, it is a bit as if you inserted a compressor with a low tresh hold except that it does the opposite. I also have it on for jazz sometimes as I noticed drums and percussion gain presence with Crystallizer on. And jazz is often mixed with vocal and piano or sax too much in front for my taste, but I love percussion sounds you see. Overall, I think Crystallizer is a handy thing to have.

Originally Posted by badbob

No it's not. It's a stripped down version of the Music, with lower end DAC's and disabled features.

Not really . Xtreme Audio is a stripped down version, not xtreme Gamer. Xtreme Gamer is a real X-Fi. Check its specs, reviews etc.

As for other things - Creative cards are not pro cards, but for someone needing one for playback only they are excellent value for money, and they actually last years. I still have Audigy card bought in 2001 (keep it for its firewire connector to connect mackie FW desk. As for settings - I think it is better to use them as you like. Disable-all-in-blind only leaves you with sound coloured by headphones, which of course might be ok, but for critical listening purpose I EQ headphones, same as I EQ mics when recording or doing live sound.

Interstingly microphone and headphone sellers would like you to believe it is better to have separate microphone for each instrument and separate pair of headphones for every song you have. Well, I use EQ instead, but that OT I guess.

[Tautitan]

Thanks for the reply badbob but *zoom,* thats the sound of all that info going straight over my head lol, also on audioreview the price is listed at $1000 for the Arcam; ouch thats way outside my price range. If the X-fi doesn't sound up to scratch when it gets here (remember all I've heard from a computer is the onboard audio through cheap headphones and my budget is £60 for the sound card and £100 for the 'phones) I can always return it or sell it later on when my funds increase. Erazerhead: when it gets here I'll have a play about with the crystallizer settings and see how it turns out. I did look at the xtreme audio but it just looked like a rebadged audigy se 7.1, that about right? Also, I've found a few sites selling the 770s 80ohm version for £76.99, just waiting to hear back about stock now.

[Erazerhead]

that's right, xtreme audio is rebadged audigy SE with some X-Fi software or so everybody says. xtreme gamer looks similar but uses actual X-Fi chip but unlike xtreme music (gotta love these guys for these inventive names) xtreme gamer has the optical SPDIF (and not coaxial SPDIF) and HD Audio compatible front panel connector.

[Tautitan]

Yeah Creative have all these names yet Vista gets moaned at for having too many product versions lol. OK then thanks for sorting that out. Good news, found the 770s 80ohm version for £76.99 so it looks like I'll be getting them.

[james.miller]

Originally Posted by Erazerhead

Not really . Xtreme Audio is a stripped down version, not xtreme Gamer. Xtreme Gamer is a real X-Fi. Check its specs, reviews etc.

well, it is stripped down in terms of features, but the dac's are one and the same across the entire xfi range, save the elite-pro