Asus SupremeFXII or Asus Xonar DX?

[PlasmaManiac]

Hi All

Im currently using my PC for general surfing and to also to play movies on my 42" Plasma screen in my living room via Twin DVI from a 7800GTX and SPDIF (for Sound) from my Asus Maximus Formula/SupremeFXII On-Board sound card.

The SPDIF out from the motherboard goes to my Sony STR-DE495 Dolby Digital/DTS Amplifier. I also have analogue out from the sound card going to an old pair of Creative speakers which still serve a purpose for general PC sound.

Im quite happy with the sound going to my amp and Creative speakers, but have been looking at the Asus Xonar DX to possibly improve sound if at all possible. However, Im not sure if this Xonar will improve things in the SPDIF department?

I would really appreciate any help or advice given here.

Regards

Nad

[meansizzler]

SPDIF does not support Dolby True HD/DTS Master so if you want to get the best sound out of your movies then your going to have switch to analogue outs, the motherboard audio has poor DAC's, so a card like the Xonar will give much better sound due to higher quality DAC's on the analogue out.. if your sticking with SPDIF then you won't get any difference...

If your playing games then you don't want to use SPDIF, unless your using stereo only, if your using the built in DD Live/DTS Connect then it's lossy as it converts games audio to lossy dolby/dts, also your going to get EAX2 max support, you want to use the analogue outs of the Creative X-Fi as it will give much better sounding multichannel game audio due to the EAX 5 support, the Xonar does not support EAX 5 so that rules it out, currently most gamers are going for the X-FI Prelude, but if your on a budget an an X-Fi Xtreme Music will do as it also support EAX 5.0

[Erazerhead]

For digital out you do not need add-on card. Mobo output will be as good. DDL encoding is lossy and will result in delays - been there done that with SoundStorm, possibly delays might have been taken under control but in the end DDL is a lossy algorithm. For analog out you are better off with X-Fi as stated above for its actual full EAX support in hardware. I think Xtreme Music is gone off the shelves now, so might be hard to find. Xtreme Gamer is thought to be as good and has a connector for standard front audio I/O with most PC cases.

[james.miller]

full hardware eax really shouldnt be a concern. just get the card with the best analogue outputs for the money that you can afford and dont worry about eax. as far as im concerned that card is the xonar D2. Erazerhead is quite right about delays with DDL and it's still an issue. DTS:interactive is the same, though the quality is better. however its always preferable to go analogue if your soundcard and speakers/amp are up to it. tbh i have the xonar and i dont use DDL or DTS:I at all.

[lilohtpc]

Originally Posted by PlasmaManiac

Hi All

Im currently using my PC for general surfing and to also to play movies on my 42" Plasma screen in my living room via Twin DVI from a 7800GTX and SPDIF (for Sound) from my Asus Maximus Formula/SupremeFXII On-Board sound card.

Nad

Back to your question, if between SupremeFXII and Xonar DX, definitely go with Xonar DX. SupremeFXII is no more than onboard audio on a riser card.

As to Creative, check this site out, I'll say stay away from this brand:
http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/0..._k-who-fi.html
http://creative.edited.us/

[PlasmaManiac]

Thanks for the replies guys, got myself the XONAR DX2 and as you stated the SPDIF output was the same.

However, the analogue output was unbelieveable. Did'nt think crap 10 year speakers could sound so good.

I now have the AV Amp connected via analogue and the difference in sound quality was apparent straight away.

Thanks again.

[james.miller]

no problem!

[Donnacha]

Originally Posted by PlasmaManiac

Thanks for the replies guys, got myself the XONAR DX2 and as you stated the SPDIF output was the same.

However, the analogue output was unbelieveable. Did'nt think crap 10 year speakers could sound so good.

I now have the AV Amp connected via analogue and the difference in sound quality was apparent straight away.

Thanks again.

interesting - I'm keen to get a new card particularly for HD sound. So the analogs are better than SPDIF? How would you describe the difference out of curiousity?

Thanks!

[Nom]

Originally Posted by meansizzler

If your playing games then you don't want to use SPDIF, unless your using stereo only, if your using the built in DD Live/DTS Connect then it's lossy as it converts games audio to lossy dolby/dts...

Um, gaming over "lossy" DD/DTS works just great. There's no reason that you "don't want to use it" at all ! If you actually have a listen to the DD/DTS encoded version, against the uncompressed originals, they sound pretty much identical.

Originally Posted by meansizzler

also your going to get EAX2 max support, you want to use the analogue outs of the Creative X-Fi as it will give much better sounding multichannel game audio due to the EAX 5 support, the Xonar does not support EAX 5

You're wrong - the Xonar does support EAX 5 ! It's not "official" support - but it works just fine. More information at http://techreport.com/articles.x/14500

The Xonar DX is a fine choice - it sounds great, supports EAX 5, and doesn't use Creative drivers.

[Nom]

Originally Posted by Donnacha

interesting - I'm keen to get a new card particularly for HD sound. So the analogs are better than SPDIF? How would you describe the difference out of curiousity?

SPDIF only has space for two channels of sound - stereo.
DolbyDigital and DTS both use lossy compression to "fit" their 5.1 channels into this 2 channel space - that's the limit of SPDIF. It simply doesn't have the bandwidth to carry HD sound.

It's not that the analogue outputs are "better" - they are infact your only option

Having said that, I wouldn't worry about "HD" sound. A well encoded DD/DTS track, carried via SPDIF, already sounds awesome on a decent setup - remember that CD-quality audio is already extremely high definition (infact, it's not that far from the limits of human hearing) - you don't have much to gain !

[Donnacha]

Originally Posted by Nom

SPDIF only has space for two channels of sound - stereo.
DolbyDigital and DTS both use lossy compression to "fit" their 5.1 channels into this 2 channel space - that's the limit of SPDIF. It simply doesn't have the bandwidth to carry HD sound.

It's not that the analogue outputs are "better" - they are infact your only option

Having said that, I wouldn't worry about "HD" sound. A well encoded DD/DTS track, carried via SPDIF, already sounds awesome on a decent setup - remember that CD-quality audio is already extremely high definition (infact, it's not that far from the limits of human hearing) - you don't have much to gain !

Nom, thanks for the response. I already use SPDIF from my HTPC and the 5.1 analogs from my Toshiba HD DVD player, so I can hear the difference between HD and non-HD sound. I agree that "normal" 5.1 can sound great, but I've experienced the full uncompressed sound of TRUE HD and love it!

I was really after the comparison in relation to the Xonar, and whether DD/DTS via analog was any "better" than SPDIF (probably not, but maybe on the Xonar!). I want to avail of the full HD sound formats using the HTPC so am looking at upgrading my soundcard. I have an Audigy LS at the moment and the analog outs don't sound too good, not bad. Just wondering if the Xonar will be a worthwhile upgrade?

Cheers

[meansizzler]

Originally Posted by Nom

Um, gaming over "lossy" DD/DTS works just great. There's no reason that you "don't want to use it" at all ! If you actually have a listen to the DD/DTS encoded version, against the uncompressed originals, they sound pretty much identical.

You're wrong - the Xonar does support EAX 5 ! It's not "official" support - but it works just fine. More information at http://techreport.com/articles.x/14500

The Xonar DX is a fine choice - it sounds great, supports EAX 5, and doesn't use Creative drivers.

Using DD Live is like listening to mp3 instead of.wav as it's lossy, I don't use optical as some amps make a loud band/click noise when switching between a stereo and DD signal my amp does and i find it annoying, also the delay thing of the Live Encoding and again the lossy feature yes on the xbox 360 you can't tell the difference between a WMA 5.1 soundtrack via DD LIVE and same same on the PC via Analogue out but you don't have multichannel analogue out on that console where as on the PC you do so I stick with that... I guess it's personal preference, but I have my reasons, DD Live is Lossy, suffers from Delays as for that EAX 5 you talk about it is partially software based not hardware, similar to the Creative Alchemy. Actually on Vista I have never had a problem with a creative Driver...., I have had loads of problems with Asus mobo's and S3 standby, asus have poor support there is no about about that, there are releasing a good range of cards but i'm a gamer and there just not ideal for me.., If I only listened ot Music/DVD's then I would get one....

One of the reasons I go for the Creative Band is the CMMS Stereo Surround mode, , which clones a stereo signal across all speakers even the center, and it does it well every time, don't know any other card that does that, ones that do don't output it to the center speaker...

[meansizzler]

Originally Posted by Donnacha

I want to avail of the full HD sound formats using the HTPC so am looking at upgrading my soundcard. I have an Audigy LS at the moment and the analog outs don't sound too good, not bad. Just wondering if the Xonar will be a worthwhile upgrade?

Cheers

Go for the Xonar if you want good analogue outs and don't want to play games, should provide a superior sound to that of the LS, especially for the HD Formats, just stick with the analogue outs though... and make super to try out the MLP/True HD track on Superman Returns HD-DVD

[james.miller]

Originally Posted by Nom

Um, gaming over "lossy" DD/DTS works just great. There's no reason that you "don't want to use it" at all ! If you actually have a listen to the DD/DTS encoded version, against the uncompressed originals, they sound pretty much identical.

analogue is better and produces less lag. if you want a gaming card, lag is quite a pain yes?

You're wrong - the Xonar does support EAX 5 ! It's not "official" support - but it works just fine. More information at http://techreport.com/articles.x/14500

you're wrong. it supports eax5.0, but it doesn't work yet. i have not found a single app or game that can make use of the xonar's eax5.0 compatibility. can you?

The Xonar DX is a fine choice - it sounds great, supports EAX 5, and doesn't use Creative drivers.

supports but doesnt work.

Go for the Xonar if you want good analogue outs and don't want to play games, should provide a superior sound to that of the LS, especially for the HD Formats, just stick with the analogue outs though... and make super to try out the MLP/True HD track on Superman Returns HD-DVD

why do people say that? i game just fine on my xonar! coming form an x-fi gamer yes, i can say there is very little difference in it as far as EAX goes (some people dont even like eax!) and with its analogue outputs, its just the better card. looking at my specs below, you'd say i was a gamer too, right?

[Nom]

Originally Posted by james.miller

analogue is better and produces less lag. if you want a gaming card, lag is quite a pain yes?

I'm using realtime Dolby Digital Encoding on an old HDA X-Mystique card, and there's no perceptable lag. Games work just fine

Originally Posted by james.miller

you're wrong. it supports eax5.0, but it doesn't work yet. i have not found a single app or game that can make use of the xonar's eax5.0 compatibility. can you?

Read the TechReport review that I just linked to ! Specifically this page http://techreport.com/articles.x/14500/6
Both BioShock and Battlefield 2 run in EAX 5 mode and sound just as good as the X-Fi. Hell, Battlefield 2 even runs in it's special "X-Fi" mode

Originally Posted by meansizzler

Using DD Live is like listening to mp3 instead of.wav as it's lossy

Why are you so against lossy compression ?
I watch all my DVDs encoded with lossy MPEG2, my music is all stored on lossy MP3, my games are all played encoded with lossy DolbyDigital, and everything's just great ! I have no problem at all with lossy compression, providing it sounds almost as good as the original