[Valkirk]

I went to see Casino Royale over the weekend and could not help but be appalled at the quality of the image! (The film was great though )

Watching an HD program on my TV at home provided such a better picture and all of sudden when you revert back to a 50ft low res image it really strikes you as poor!

If they are charging you such a large amount of money to watch the film they should have always been at the forefront of technology, I have seen discussions relating to the industry moving to digital and hopefully HD but this really needs to happen ASAP as I for one will really think twice about going to the cinema rather than waiting for the HD version of the film!!!!!

[`BK]

Film should blow away HD (after all, how do you think all these HD transfers are possible?) with a proper configuration, but that's the thing, if you go to your local megaplex or whatever, it won't be. That and the crowds, super expensive snacks, kids that shouldn't be there in the first place, sticky floors, and uncomfortable seats, makes cinema going not very enjoyable anymore.

I've seen the future though, it's DLP, and low it is good A few Cineworld's and VUE's have 2K Digital, and the Odeon's in Covent Garden and Manchester filmworks. Although if anyone has comprehensive listings of which films are digital (the websites don't seem to indicate, I just happened to stumble on Pan's Labyrinth when I went to go see it ) , that would be appreciated.

[Starburst]

There is nothing wrong with traditional cinema projection but if a poor quality print and projection hardware etc are used then you will not be getting the best out of the technology.
This also applies to domestic HD be it broadcast or pre-recorded since factors outside the base specification affect the final result, given mass adoption of digital cinema projection I expect we'll see a range in quality as well.

The kicker is that HD masters are taken from the same source as the prints for the cinemas and the original masters contain far more data than HD requires so in essence the resolution of analogue cinema is far higher than HD.
The SKY1 production of Hogfather is made in HD and was premiered in a digital cinema the other week and was well received for it's PQ but of course SKY can screw that up by broadcasting it at a "poor" bitrate.

[Valkirk]

I understand the whole film source being more than upto the job as you see films broadcast in HD of old films and the quality difference on most of them (Not all) is a great improvement.

It only struck me as you see people's faces close up and instead of being able to almost identify individual pores I was left thinking there wasn't much difference in picture quality between this and the old James Bond's you see on TV (Apart from the size of the pic of course ).

It was a VUE cinema I was watching at and they definately need to upgrade their kit to make more out of the source image!

I wouldn't have even noticed apart from this was the first cinema trip since had HD installed 4 months ago.....been spoiled now

Oh yes; best tip for anyone wanting to view a film at the cinema is to drag yourself out of bed early on a Sunday and go to the 10am showing!! Had the largest seater cinema with about 15 people in it! Whole row to ourselves

[Pecker]

Whilst 35mm can be superb, the truth is it often falls far short of this. Indeed, it almost always falls far short of this and, bar printing up a brand new print for each seperate showing (or every few showings, at least) film always will fall far short of this.

Indeed, film so rarely reaches its full potential, its pretty misleading to say how good it can be (no offence intended to those who sing film's praises - I've done that myself).

It's like the BBC doing a test HD transmission on FREEVIEW and using all the bandwidth available for BBC1, BBC PARLIAMENT (in recess), BBC3, BBC4, CbeeBies, and CBBC, and outputting 1080p. You then watch this test transmission and say how good HDTV can be. It has no relevance to the real world.

Well over 95% of cinema seats sold will be in local multiplexes and their like, showing shoddy prints with loads of damage. Arguing how good 35mm is from the handfull of showprints distributed by the BFI through the 'arthouse' circuit is just as bad as the above HDTV example.

I think my old SD projector (ThemeScene H56) could throw a pretty decent picture. It wouldn't survive a side-by-side comparison with the local cinema picture, but it wouldn't be too far off, and the SQ and lack of print damage would be a major plus over the multiplex experience (not to mention the lack of chavs on mobiles).

If my new HD73 isn't better than my local flea pit I'll be asking for my money back.

Steve W

[Giblets2]

What always strikes me most as being wrong with the cinema is the focus being badly adjusted. Maybe the cinemas should all chip into a fund for replacing the projectionist's glasses regularly and supplying him with a bottle of Caffiene pills! They could probably get away with charging an extra 50p with the resultant improvement.

[`BK]

Heh, funnily enough that's my biggest beef. The focus is never quite right whenever I go see a movie, that and probably colour saturation and then audio (which honestly can be terrible sometimes). Film damage seems to pot luck and can be largely tuned out even with an anal disposition.

I totally see what you're saying, Pecker, and I agree somewhat. Home viewing is so much more satisying in the end I am quite fond of DLP after seeing it in action though and hopefully it'll become more widespread in the future, it would make cinema going much more pleasant for me again.

[JagoPlasma]

i have to say some of the image quality i have seen in the past few movies i have seen have been pretty damn dissapointing. Casino Royale and Saw III were ok, but on my HD screen it would look tonnes better. and Pirates 2 was bloody aweful even the missus said it looks blurry compared to HD films on my TV

but i guess thats what you get when you put a 4k resolution image on a 100ft poorly calibrated screen and 1080p resolution on a 42" well looked after screen.

oh well i still like the cinema for the atmosphere and a night out even if the picture is dire

[Steve-L]

Originally Posted by JagoPlasma

i have to say some of the image quality i have seen in the past few movies i have seen have been pretty damn dissapointing. Casino Royale and Saw III were ok, but on my HD screen it would look tonnes better. and Pirates 2 was bloody aweful even the missus said it looks blurry compared to HD films on my TV

but i guess thats what you get when you put a 4k resolution image on a 100ft poorly calibrated screen and 1080p resolution on a 42" well looked after screen.

oh well i still like the cinema for the atmosphere and a night out even if the picture is dire

The atmposphere? You don't even get that any more... the 12A certificate that they gave Casino Royale resulted in a load of obnoxious little brats mucking around throughout the whole film, not to mention the annoying person behind us that was constantly eating sweets/crisps out of a very crinkly bag and the obligatory mobile phones that were not turned off.

I also agree about the PQ - I went to see it on day of release and it was poor and out of focus then. God know what it will be like now after being used for a few weeks... I'm pretty sure I'll ejnoy the whole thing a lot more when it's released on Sky BoxOfficeHD, HD-DVD or whatever...

[AVdavid]

I agree with the majority with the advent of Sky HD and HDDVD / Bluray Cinemas really have to get their act together if they want to stay in business, they do not compete at the moment

Dave

[woodmaster]

I'm a great fan of the cinema I go a lot with my dad, but I do agree with most on here the pq is a bit naff, I've got the Hitachi TX200 and I consider it to be the best AV purchase I've made its more satisfying to watch and my seat is loads more comfy and I get coffee when I want. Would also like to say Ive stopped buying DVD's I just wait for the films to come on box office HD I only brought the films I really wanted hence I only have about 100 DVD's and that's not many over a six year period

[Abbeygoo]

It can vary from cinema to cinema and you can either strike it lucky ... or not. I have been a regular visitor to the Manchester Filmworks and have loved every minute. Last weekend, I went to see Santa Clause 3 with my daughter at Ashton-under-Lyne's (brand new) multiplex and it was awful! The screen seemed out of focus, the image wasn't big enough and the sound .... pah!

For those of you nearby, you have got to go to the IMAX in Manchester - truly awesome experience and definitely worth a Xmas visit, particularly if they have the Polar Express in 3D again.

[Valkirk]

Originally Posted by Abbeygoo

For those of you nearby, you have got to go to the IMAX in Manchester - truly awesome experience and definitely worth a Xmas visit, particularly if they have the Polar Express in 3D again.

Totally agree with you on the IMAX front! Only been to one showing at the Science Museum which was a collection of bits (Including the great Simpsons part where they go into the 3D world ) and it was truly amazing...totally blew me away; if you stop watching the film and look around you can see people moving their heads to avoid things flying towards them . Now that is something different and definately worth paying for..can't remember what the pq was like though; was too stunned by things flying out the screen at me

[dodgyd]

For me, the death of cinema coincided with the affordability of mobile phones for kids. That and the fact that a well designed (but affordable) home cinema can compete for quality compared with the average cinema, I just can't justify the expense and inconvenience of visiting the local flea pit. Having said that, in the past I've complained because of lack of focus, bad sound or unruly kids and got a refund, but that's a bit like having a sub standard restaurant meal and getting your money back - it's still a deeply unsatisfactory experience.

Dave.

[blingo]

I watch most cinema movies in Leicester Square in the Odeon, ticket prices may be high at £12.50 but the sound and picture quality is the best i seen in a cinema, Think they bought a new High Def Projector just to show Star Wars Episode III how it was meant to be shown. When it came with the Dolby Digital and HD intro our faces were like

[cooperda]

Originally Posted by Valkirk

I went to see Casino Royale over the weekend and could not help but be appalled at the quality of the image! (The film was great though )

Watching an HD program on my TV at home provided such a better picture and all of sudden when you revert back to a 50ft low res image it really strikes you as poor!

If they are charging you such a large amount of money to watch the film they should have always been at the forefront of technology, I have seen discussions relating to the industry moving to digital and hopefully HD but this really needs to happen ASAP as I for one will really think twice about going to the cinema rather than waiting for the HD version of the film!!!!!

I saw this weekend also.

Thought the colours were muted and the image grainy - but guessed that was on purpose to give Bond his new gritty look.

Was very impressed with the sound though!

Cheers, Dave C.

[Valkirk]

Yep sound was superb! They sorted DD out at most cinemas a while back...how come it is taking so long to update the pq!

Blingo might have to try them out next time i'm in town.....damn expensive though!

[cooperda]

Originally Posted by Steve-L

The atmposphere? You don't even get that any more... the 12A certificate that they gave Casino Royale resulted in a load of obnoxious little brats mucking around throughout the whole film,

In the showing I went to a group of about 20 kids were thrown out after about 30mins of noise and messing about - some looked only about 9 or 10!

Cheers, Dave C.

[cooperda]

Originally Posted by Abbeygoo

For those of you nearby, you have got to go to the IMAX in Manchester - truly awesome experience and definitely worth a Xmas visit, particularly if they have the Polar Express in 3D again.

Tim Burton's Nightmare before Christmas has supposed to have just been given the 3D treatment using some new digital technique.

Cheers, Dave C.

[Pecker]

Originally Posted by Valkirk

Yep sound was superb! They sorted DD out at most cinemas a while back...how come it is taking so long to update the pq!

Blingo might have to try them out next time i'm in town.....damn expensive though!

I'm sure it's much improved. But the world's best PA amp & speakers trying to fill a cavernous auditorium, can't possibly match even a semi-decent A/V amp and some decent hi-fidelity speakers.

Steve W

[chaddy]

Originally Posted by Abbeygoo

It can vary from cinema to cinema and you can either strike it lucky ... or not. I have been a regular visitor to the Manchester Filmworks and have loved every minute. Last weekend, I went to see Santa Clause 3 with my daughter at Ashton-under-Lyne's (brand new) multiplex and it was awful! The screen seemed out of focus, the image wasn't big enough and the sound .... pah!

For those of you nearby, you have got to go to the IMAX in Manchester - truly awesome experience and definitely worth a Xmas visit, particularly if they have the Polar Express in 3D again.

taking the girlfriend to watch Nightmare before christmas 3D at the IMAX on saturday !

Lets not forget this is the AV forum - most of us are into home cinema for one good reason - we saw the demos in shops -

- 1st with Dolby surround - at last you could sit in the optimal position all the time and set the speaker levels CORRECTLY :-)
- Then DVDs came out thank god - Prologic but with VHS imaging was so frustrating
- Then we found you could have even better subs at home (for the space)
- Then projectors fell below 4k for an amazing picture (I remember the PTAE100 rocking the world at it's price)
- Then we got huge plasmas for those who found PJ's too expensive/too much hassle.

We all did this because we love movies and we wanted to envelop just ourselves in the best possible experience. The cinema really is the poor mans choice now and they will have to really diversify to keep us interested - hence all the investment in 3d, iMax etc but at the end of the day I think the cinemas' days are numbered unless they introduce an element that can't be reproduced at home (like a big picture couldn't not so long ago).

Last time I went to the cinema was ages ago and mobile phones, followed by us ALL getting a refund because some drunk lads shouted through the whole film put me off for ever. (that was Odeon's idea of diversifying at the time - run after-closing time movies without proper security- nice idea - not lol)

I will truly miss the experience of watching a mega wide (Panavision?) movie in pitch black in awe, and silence and being totally absorbed. But for me it's over. Kids don't have discipline any more - lol I sound like an old codger (I'm 37)

Long live Home Cinema and down with Joe Public!

[contraste]

Don't blame film, projectionists or projection equipment for the poor viewing experience in many commercial cinemas, blame the cinema owners.

It used to be that each screen had a projectionist who supervised the screening and his/her equipment. Then innovations in film handling equipment (i.e. non-rewind platters) which spurred the building of multiplexes, encouraged cinema owners to drastically reduce the number of projectionists they employed (compared to the number of screens). Now projectionists were required to 'oversee' multiple screenings and inevitably standards began to slip. Many older, more experienced projectionists left the job (or were forced out by lower wages and more onerous working conditions). Prints that were once rewound and checked by hand and eye after each screening were now simply re-laced ready for the next screening.

Projection equipment was installed in the new multiplexes and, after the initial set-up, it was rarely, if ever, touched again. Regular calibration and maintenance became a thing of the past.

Where once prints were rejected if they were not properly graded or were damaged, now distributors ran off hundreds of prints for simultaneous multiplex release multiplex and some ropey old prints did the rounds.

While all this was happening, cinema admission prices were rising and yet attendances were growing. The cinema owners came to the conclusion that they could show poor prints by poorly trained projectionists on ill-maintained equipment and still have an audience! Go figure.

[Valkirk]

Originally Posted by contraste

While all this was happening, cinema admission prices were rising and yet attendances were growing. The cinema owners came to the conclusion that they could show poor prints by poorly trained projectionists on ill-maintained equipment and still have an audience! Go figure.

And yet when numbers start dropping they blame piracy! How about showing us HD Movies in the full 50ft screen glory with specific screenings for adults with a zero tolerance policy

Oh well....at this rate they will soon be destined to the history books...just worried about the damage it will do to the film industry.

[pixelated]

I still think that yes, the image quality at the size it's being projected at my NOT be the best and if you compare it to a perfectly calibrated Plasma display at optimum resolution from a blu-ray disc, it's never going to look as "sharp". But for me it just looks more "filmic". It's huge too! I love home cinema, but except for the annoying little idiots who can spoil a film in the cinema, it's nigh-on unbeatable for me

Casino Royale incidentally was very good at the Odeon in Manchester (Print Works). However I'd never have dared see that flim on day one, for the reasons mentioned earlier about plebs surrounded the place.

Abbeygoo... I once took my girlfriend to see the Lion King at the IMAX .... bloody ridiculous isn't it?

[chaddy]

Originally Posted by Stuart Kirby

I still think that yes, the image quality at the size it's being projected at my NOT be the best and if you compare it to a perfectly calibrated Plasma display at optimum resolution from a blu-ray disc, it's never going to look as "sharp". But for me it just looks more "filmic". It's huge too! I love home cinema, but except for the annoying little idiots who can spoil a film in the cinema, it's nigh-on unbeatable for me
Casino Royale incidentally was very good at the Odeon in Manchester (Print Works). However I'd never have dared see that flim on day one, for the reasons mentioned earlier about plebs surrounded the place.

Abbeygoo... I once took my girlfriend to see the Lion King at the IMAX .... bloody ridiculous isn't it?

me and the girlfriend went on the 1st saturday of its release at he printworks. it was packed and what made it worse we went to the 3pm showing so I casual walked into the odeon and laughed at the cue size and said I don't know why people don't buy their ticket at the machines. Onlt to find they have got rid of them (when did that happen.)
so had to cue up for 15 mins then paid the extra £1.50 for the PREMIUM seats only for 2 people to be sat in our seats. so I asked them to move then the worst thing happened a group of at least 15 kids walked in and sat at the front.
They would not shut up, they started throwing popcorn ice cubes. one girl had a really big mouth and it seemed she wanted to be looked at and heard.
in the end what happens ?
a guy comes in and tells them to be quie.
as soon as he is out of the screen they start again.
still enjoyed the film but ould have enjoyed it more if it wasn't for them.

[blingo]

One time went to watch Hulk in local cinema and the damn 13-15 years wouldn't shut up talking through out the whole film, i was soon about to do 25 years in prison.

I then stopped going to local cinema in my area long time ago from school kids just going in there to mess around and rubbish picture/audio quality, Leicester Sq Odeon you just see more older mature people it is abit of a travel by tube but it is chav free. No chav is going to pay £12.50 to watch a movie guess thats another good reason for the high price.

[Giblets2]

I guess it'll come to the point where we either give up or take a taser on every cinema outing!

One thing maybe worth mentioning is that most cinemas now do a 'season ticket' offering which is about the right price for a Xmas or birthday present. Is the lack of repect for films partly due to the fact that these kids go 'free' to any number of films they want?

[Abbeygoo]

Originally Posted by chaddy

taking the girlfriend to watch Nightmare before christmas 3D at the IMAX on saturday !

fantastic. The IMAX is one of the best places on earth ....

[chaddy]

i know went to watch Superman there, but looking at reviews or things about the making, they keep saying things about IMAX but on the odeon website under the IMAX section its not there. (polar express is tho )
Its on screen 2 and in digital !!!!!!!!