Pioneer 433/530/630 Aspect ratio handling

PhilipL

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Hi

Thought it might be useful to clarify how the Pioneer hard drive recorders handle aspect ratio switching, it isn't too clear in the manual and it is assumed on a DVD-R Video disc that no wide screen signal is recorded, this isn't always true, and you can have wide screen switching on DVD-Rs if you know how:

When recording to the hard drive
Wide screen signal is recorded appropriately and will switch on playback as the original source did, i.e. 16:9 adverts then 4:3 for the program.

When recording real-time to a DVD-RW VR mode disc
Wide screen signal is recorded appropriately.

When recording real-time directly to a DVD Video (DVD-R or DVD-RW in video mode)
Wide screen signal is defaulted to 4:3 regardless of the source; you will need to manually switch your TV to 16:9 for wide screen recordings. Widescreen sources will be tall and thin on 4:3 TVs.

When dubbing from the hard-drive to DVD Video
When high-speed dubbing the wide screen switching is completely preserved, so on playback from the DVD the wide screen signal is present for 16:9 sources. Note that if the source changes between 16:9 and 4:3 these will be split into separate titles on the DVD to keep to the DVD Video specification.

When dubbing real-time, for example when re-compressing to fit on a single disc, then the source will be recorded as 4:3 regardless. There is a way around this however:

1) Use a DVD-RW in VR mode, and recompress to that VR mode disc. This preserves the widescreen-switching signal.
2) Next, high-speed dub the DVD-RW VR mode disc to the hard-drive giving you a new title that is compressed to the right size for fitting on a DVD.
3) Take a DVD-R disc, and then high-speed dub this new title to it, which will preserve the wide screen switching.

So in summary, to get wide-screen switching on a DVD-R Video disc, record to the hard-drive first then high-speed dub to the DVD. Follow the steps above if you need to recompress the video on the hard-drive in order to fit onto a single disc.

Hope this helps.

Regards

Phil
 
That's wonderful news, but what if you have a source that doesn't supply 16:9 switch signal and/or is not connected via RGB SCART but via say S-video...I was looking for some menu selection item in the 530H that would allow for marking incoming and/or existing recordings as 16:9 but haven't found any...any ideas???...we are recording from a DPS Velocity video edit card which doesn't send out a 16:9 switch signal...
 
Hi

That's wonderful news, but what if you have a source that doesn't supply 16:9 switch signal and/or is not connected via RGB SCART but via say S-video...I was looking for some menu selection item in the 530H that would allow for marking incoming and/or existing recordings as 16:9 but haven't found any...any ideas???...we are recording from a DPS Velocity video edit card which doesn't send out a 16:9 switch signal...

Without the switching signal being sent to the DVD recorder it will just default to 4:3 as it doesn't know other wise as you are finding.

If you have access to a DVD writer/Nero burning program on your computer you can author the DVD in the Pioneer normally (use a DVD-RW in Video mode) then copy all the files of it to your computer. You can then use something like IFOEdit (available from www.doom.org) to set the widescreen flag to 16:9, then use Nero to burn it back to a DVD-R and then reuse the DVD-RW later.

There is no option on the DVD recorder to force the 16:9 flag, so the above method is one workaround.

I think an S-Video signal (i.e. not a SCART lead just an S-Video lead) will carry the widescreen flag in one the lines of the picture so should still trigger the DVD Recorder if that signal is present.

Regards

Phil
 
I have the earlier version of the 433 ie the 420 and it behaves in the same way.
Out of interest - if you record onto the hard drive in XP mode and then burn onto DVD-R using the "optimised " setting ie real rime burning with conversion - then you will still get preservation of the WS switching signal.
 
Hi

Out of interest - if you record onto the hard drive in XP mode and then burn onto DVD-R using the "optimised " setting ie real rime burning with conversion - then you will still get preservation of the WS switching signal.

Yes you are right, I sort of made an assumption you didn't.

Regards

Phil
 
PhilipL said:
So in summary, to get wide-screen switching on a DVD-R Video disc, record to the hard-drive first then high-speed dub to the DVD. Follow the steps above if you need to recompress the video on the hard-drive in order to fit onto a single disc.

Nice one, Phil.

There's an interesting gotcha that caught me out until I realised what was going on. If you record a programme that is a mix of 16:9 and 4:3 then the recorder will, as you say, split it into separate titles when you burn to a video-mode disc. However, if there is only a tiny amount in one aspect ratio, although it warns you about splitting the title, it doesn't actually do so. I've got some Simpsons episodes that display this effect, because my editing of the ads has left a few 16:9 frames in the middle of a 4:3 programme.

Realising this, I have become lazy, and don't edit out absolutely every trace of 16:9 content any more, because I only need to worry if the title actually gets split.

However, a problem occurs if a set of episodes won't fit on a disc. I usually deal with this by burning just one episode to a VR-mode DVD-RW at a slightly lower quality, as this saves time and preserves the best possible quality for the remaining episodes. I then do as you describe, copying the episode back to the hard disk ready to high-speed burn it along with the others. Sometimes I find that when I try to burn this down-converted episode to video-mode disc, the recorder tells me that it can't copy it in high-speed mode (and therefore the whole disc will be in real-time). Worse, it often ends up a ridiculously inflated size on disc (a 1.6GB file will end up as 4.2GB, for example). It took me a while to realise that this was only happening on titles that contain a mix of 16:9 and 4:3 material (like most of the stuff I record off Sky). A re-edit of the original source material to remove every trace of 16:9 frames solves the problem.

David.
 
PhilipL said:
When dubbing real-time, for example when re-compressing to fit on a single disc, then the source will be recorded as 4:3 regardless. There is a way around this however:

1) Use a DVD-RW in VR mode, and recompress to that VR mode disc. This preserves the widescreen-switching signal.
2) Next, high-speed dub the DVD-RW VR mode disc to the hard-drive giving you a new title that is compressed to the right size for fitting on a DVD.
3) Take a DVD-R disc, and then high-speed dub this new title to it, which will preserve the wide screen switching.
Thanks very much for this very useful information. :thumbsup:
Just so I understand correctly, real-time re-compressing to a VR-mode disc does preserve the formatting, but copying to a Video-mode disc in that way doesn't?
 
Hi David

Yes good information regarding the mix of 16:9 and 4:3.

A re-edit of the original source material to remove every trace of 16:9 frames solves the problem.

Yes a few frames of either left in could cause a problem as a few frames probably isn't enough to split out so causes the recorder to stop a high-speed copy or get a bit confused.

Regards

Phil
 
Hi

Thanks very much for this very useful information.
Just so I understand correctly, real-time re-compressing to a VR-mode disc does preserve the formatting, but copying to a Video-mode disc in that way doesn't?

It has been pointed out to me that any recording from the hard-drive always maintains the aspect ratio switching when copying to a DVD (Video mode or VR mode, real-time or high-speed), if the aspect ratio changes part way through it is split into another title on DVD-R discs (to maintain compatibility), you are warned about this when doing a copy from the copy menu.

The only time problems arise are if you record directly to DVD-R which will then only by 4:3 no matter what (no point recording direct to a DVD-R though if you have a hard-disc anyway) or edit the recording on the hard-drive but leave in a few frames of a different aspect ratio by mistake.

Regards

Phil
 
Please click one of the Quick Reply icons in the posts above to activate Quick Reply.
 
PhilipL said:
So in summary, to get wide-screen switching on a DVD-R Video disc, record to the hard-drive first then high-speed dub to the DVD.

All of which, of course, assumes you have a switching link to your TV which will pass it on. If you're connecting via, say, component (which doesn't have switching) then you'll still need to manually switch the TV anyway.

Just thought I'd mention it. :)

Regards

Mark
 
I have a silly question- I have the 440 and not sure if I am doing something wrong, or it has some weird but expected behaviour.

I am recording to the HDD, and if I do so the widescreen signal is captured fine, filling a widescreen TV as expected. If I copy that same programme to a DVD, i have a widescreen signal still, but it is smaller than my TV. It has the same aspect ratio of 16:9, just 2/3 the size of the screen. Am I doing something wrong, or have I just got a naff recorder?

Shaz
 

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