CalMAN/Spyder2 Express or SpyderTV Pro?

[Mark Haywood]

I have a Sony HS60/Oppo OPDV971H beaming an image about 92in diagonal.

The CalMAN/Spyder2 Express "bundle" costs around £150.00, whilst SpyderTV Pro I can get for around £300.00. Could anybody offer some advice as to whether the SpyderTV Pro system is worth the extra dosh? I'd happily go the CalMAN route, but I'm a little concerned that it may be a little awkward to use, leading me to become frustrated with the whole calibrating business! Alternatively, if it's reasonably straight forward, I think I may just spend the extra £150.00 on something else.

[Mr.D]

I'd go the calman route , it shouldn't be any more difficult to use : although you will need excel or another compatable spreadsheet package. The calman guys are a bit more open about what sort of data the spreadsheet is using.

[Mark Haywood]

Thanks - I almost bought the SpyderTV Pro setup last night! I've had a look over on AVSforums and there's a guy there (Mystery?) who says that the Spyder software is more straight forward and simple to use. The only thing is that, having slept on it, I get the feeling he's a little too pro Spyder!

I think I'll take your advise and go the CalMAN route... although now I see that there's a free French program that's doing the rounds, and is about to be released in a compatible format to Spyder.

[Mr.D]

Originally Posted by Mark Haywood

Thanks - I almost bought the SpyderTV Pro setup last night! I've had a look over on AVSforums and there's a guy there.

You really need to be careful on the AVSforum , there are a lot of knowledgable people ..and a lot of bumptious hacks.

[Mark Haywood]

Originally Posted by Mr.D

You really need to be careful on the AVSforum , there are a lot of knowledgable people ..and a lot of bumptious hacks.

Well in that case I'm putting my trust in the fact that you are one of the former... and I'm not one of the latter.

I'm about to buy Spyder2 Express and CalMAN...

[Keith Hurst]

PMFJI....

Where does the Spyder colourimeter attach to when calibrating a projector?

I've always wondered this. In all shots I have seen the colourimeter seems to hang down in front of a TV or flat panel display.

This uncertainy is what constantly puts me off buying Spyder, thinking I would be buying the wrong piece of kit.

Any information appreciated.

Thanks
Keith

[Mark Haywood]

Originally Posted by WeeJockPooPongMcPlop

PMFJI....

Where does the Spyder colourimeter attach to when calibrating a projector?

I've always wondered this. In all shots I have seen the colourimeter seems to hang down in front of a TV or flat panel display.

This uncertainy is what constantly puts me off buying Spyder, thinking I would be buying the wrong piece of kit.

Any information appreciated.

Thanks
Keith

You can buy a tripod adapter to attach the Spyder to a tripod.

I've just bought Spyder2 Express and the tripod adapter and am just about to order CalMAN...

[Mr.D]

The sucker mount the spyder2 comes with can be used as a tripod adaptor , also the sensor itself has a screw hole that will fit a standard tripod mount but the sensor will then be flat on the mountng plate. If the tripod has a tilt adjustment ( most have) you just tilt the entire mounting plate up to the vertical.

When I do my projector I have the sensor facing the projector itself ( about 1-2ft back from the lens). This should get you more accurate readings in the lower part of the grayscale compared with referencing the screen but it means you won't be calibrating for any effect the screen itself is having and the sensor itself may well occlude any on screen settings you need to adjust.

The sensor may not have enough light to give you a meaningful reading at the lower end of the intensity range if you read directly off the screen.

Edit: actually that tripod mount is the sucker adaptor that my spyderTV kit came with. The Express kit may not have it.

[Keith Hurst]

Thanks guys much appreciated.

KH

[Mark Haywood]

Well, having received Spyder2 Express, minus the tripod adapter, today and receiving my CalMAN license I'm about to have a first run calibrating my Sony HS60...

[Mr.D]

I'd also recommend the getgrey test pattern discs if the convoluted menu systems on Avia and DVE annoy ( I don't actually recommend Avia for anything).

[Gary Lightfoot]

I think CalMAN allows you to take a screen reading (from a high % stim so you get an accurate reading) and you can then use that as an offset to adjust the direct readings from the pj. That allows you the extra lumens and accuracy from direct readings while adjusting the results using the screen reading (hope that makes sense).

Gary

[Mark Haywood]

Mr.D - Downloaded Getgray, cheers. It seems straight forward enough, however I may be using it incorrectly as I get different results when compared to DVE.

Gary - I had to read your suggestion three or four times, but I think I understand... Am I right in thinking that a "high % stim" means taking a grayscale reading off Getgray at, say, 80% and using the result to take into consideration the effect that my screen has on things, and then point the Spyder directly at the pj's light output to garner more accurate readings? If so I haven't done this yet!! I have the Spyder positioned about a foot away from, and pointing at an angle, the screen

I'm finding it very "interesting" trying to work out what the best way to do things, as well as attempting to understand just what the readings I get mean! So far I am reasonably happy with the image I have after setting the pj to Gamma 1, Cinema, High settings (I'm using a filter). But this is where I'm getting a little stuck - My RGB levels are virtually identical from 30% to 90% when red takes a little dive. Between 0% and 30% red is high, whilst green and blue are both low. My Delta E levels are all below 4, apart from the 10% reading which is at 7.

If I could post up a copy of the Excel readout I would, but I have no idea how to! Any and all advice/help/tuition would be most appreciated.

[Gary Lightfoot]

Hi Mark,

Yes, sorry, I should have been more specific. Bill who co-wrote the software (Bear5K over on avs) mentioned this so I'm sure that facility is there (he has posted here but i can't remember his name. ironBear maybe?). Excellent idea IMHO especially when you consider the price point of the software (not to mention the hardware..).

Not sure why you're seeing differences between the two disks - I've not got get Grey, but doesn;t DVE only have 5 grey bars and not 11? Are you getting different x,y values from the equivalent grey bar (i.e 40% grey bar on both disks gives a diffeent value?).

Does the image look red below 30%? If not, then it may just be the probe becoming innacurate at lower light levels. If it is, you could try with the probe closer to the projector to get more light and a better reading. If you still don't have any luck, you may have to tweak the red out by eye and then measure above 30% again to ensure the balnce is correct elsewhere.

If you want to get the red back up above 90% (red has run out - this is typical of UHP lamps which produce more green and blue than red), then generate a 100% white field and slowly increase red contrast until you can no longer register an increase, and then bring it down until you notice a change. Do that a couple of times and you should see the point where your maximum red is. Now reduce green and blue to match. When you do the adjustments at the lower grey scale points, never increase the red otherwise it will run out again above 90%.

What filter are you using? Is it a CCR (red correction filter) or an FL-Day? They will help boost your red and give you more contrast after calibration than calibration without it.

Gary

[Mark Haywood]

Hi Gary.

Yes, I've read Bill's instructions over on his forums re: "screen offset", but it's taken me a little while to actually understand what was meant... in fact, it was your post above that finally enabled me to get my head around what Bill was actually referring to!

I should have been a bit clearer re: Getgray/DVE - I was referring to the brightness setting here, not grayscale. Getgray has, if I'm remembering correctly, four (horizontally) moving vertical bars reading from left to right - -4% -1% 0% +1% +2%... I think I've got that right! Actually, see here. I have assumed that I should set master brightness so that 0% merges with the background "black", whilst I should be able to see the 1% and 2% bars with the -4% and -1% bars should "disappear". The thing is when I do this and then check with DVE's pattern - the first one in chapter 12 - I can see the outer bars?

Does the image look red below 30%?

That's the first thing I looked for! I would say no, it doesn't look red in darker scenes, so you may be right re inaccurate readings. I hadn't thought of that and it has spurred me on to re-read Bill's instructions and take your advice re: screen offset.

If you want to get the red back up above 90% (red has run out - this is typical of UHP lamps which produce more green and blue than red), then generate a 100% white field and slowly increase red contrast until you can no longer register an increase, and then bring it down until you notice a change. Do that a couple of times and you should see the point where your maximum red is. Now reduce green and blue to match. When you do the adjustments at the lower grey scale points, never increase the red otherwise it will run out again above 90%.

This is something I have read about elsewhere, in numerous threads, and never really understood. I think I'm getting the beginnings of an understanding here, if I read what you have written correctly!

Red (30%) 100.5% (40%) 99.6% (50%) 100.0% (60%) 99.6% (70%) 99.7% (80%) 99.9% (90%) 99.2% (100%) 95.8%

The figures above are the red grayscale tracking numbers - I wish I knew how to post the Excel graphs!

Anyway, I think I understand re: upping the red contrast until it goes no higher at 100%. I'll try that out next time, cheers.

The filter I'm using is a B+W 81EF.

Thanks for the help, Gary.