[JonStatt]

Originally Posted by KelvinS1965

As usual thanks for your sterling efforts at creating a level playing field to compare with your HD750. Unlike some others you didn't just plug it in and say 'wow it looks so much better'. As you've got a properly darkened room I'd recommend trying a gamma at 2.3. Since I recalibrated my HD350 using the external VidoeEQ I can change my 'base' gamma by using the HD350's custom gamma at default for 2.1, 2.2 and 2.3. The corrections in the VEQ mean that 2.1 and 2.2 measure as flat as the 2.3 'base' I used for the calibration. Invariably I find that 2.3 looks to have more depth especially since I opened up the iris to ensure I'm getting 12-14fL. I reckon this is also partly why I wasn't overly wowed with the demo X7 that was running in THX mode @ 200 hours so may already have been suffering from 'gamma droop' possibly making it even less than 2.2.

I found that my i1LT measured gamma just as well as the rented i1Pro, but off screen it would work down to 10IRE when the i1Pro was less accurate. By doing the offset to face the projector (as you did in Chromapure) I was able to make adjustments to the gamma at 5IRE which seems to help with shadow detail (again something the demo X7 was lacking in).

It seems that not everyone has woken up to the fact that with a projector it is as much up to room setup and calibration. Luckily I don't have to watch an uncalibrated projector in a white room though.

Projector changes - Wife not happy 5/10
Room changes - Wife not happy 10/10

Its a balancing act Kelvin....perfect cinema room or a divorce..not everyone can have everything! Okay thats a bit of an exaggeration but I meant it in humour.

But like Manni, the great news is the gamut looks very close to start with. A bit of greyscale adjustment was needed as the bulb aged, and the gamma is currently tracking between 2.1 and 2.2 which I can improve on of course. But as I dont have a perfect room I will stick to 2.2. These X7s are turning out well out of the box though.

[KelvinS1965]

I do agree Jon, otherwise my living room would be blacker than a devore office party in a coal mine in a power cut (and that's black ). I do however wonder if part of the wow effect that some HD950/RS25 upgraders are seeing (apart from having a brighter new lamp) is because out of the box is better on these new models. That's why I appreciate the efforts of those who've gone to the trouble to calibrate these new models (and ideally those that had previous models calibrated too) as these are more measured comparisons rather than just 'wow, it's better (brighter?) and looks fab in natural mode with the sharpness cranked up a bit'.

I'm astounded to say I've come across many HD750/950 owners that have never calibrated their projectors or even switched the CMS on (and they aren't all using THX mode either from what I gather). To me it seems contrary to buy a projector capable of excellant performance and then not using this ability to the maximum: A bit like having a really good bottle of wine and drinking it from a paper cup with a packet of crisps instead of a nice meal. I like to wring every last drop of performance out of my gear, so find it hard to understand those that don't...

[JonStatt]

Originally Posted by KelvinS1965

I do agree Jon, otherwise my living room would be blacker than a devore office party in a coal mine in a power cut (and that's black ). I do however wonder if part of the wow effect that some HD950/RS25 upgraders are seeing (apart from having a brighter new lamp) is because out of the box is better on these new models. That's why I appreciate the efforts of those who've gone to the trouble to calibrate these new models (and ideally those that had previous models calibrated too) as these are more measured comparisons rather than just 'wow, it's better (brighter?) and looks fab in natural mode with the sharpness cranked up a bit'.

I'm astounded to say I've come across many HD750/950 owners that have never calibrated their projectors or even switched the CMS on (and they aren't all using THX mode either from what I gather). To me it seems contrary to buy a projector capable of excellant performance and then not using this ability to the maximum: A bit like having a really good bottle of wine and drinking it from a paper cup with a packet of crisps instead of a nice meal. I like to wring every last drop of performance out of my gear, so find it hard to understand those that don't...

Okay..so you want to hear something even more shocking? I know this from a dealer. There are those who bought the HD990 simply because it was the most expensive so must be the best. Most of them don't know what a CMS is!

However, I think its important to understand that each projector out of the box should still be better than the lower model out of the box. That seems to be good enough for some people.

We have a challenge with the X7. It has lots of extra presets that are supposed to be meaningful. Film mode, that simulates Kodak or Fuji film with a Xenon bulb. This mode applies a little sharpening. Or Cinema mode, simulating a cinema projector with Xenon bulb with no sharpening at all. A lot of effort has gone into these modes this year, and should we overlook them with a purists eye? I actually think they deserve some merit because when I try them I swear it really does feel more like a cinema. Switch on CMD mode 2 (black frame insertion with less flicker than mode 1)....with Film mode, and it feels like I stepped back into the 80s watching something like Back to the future. It's quite nostalgic!

Natural preset when changed to "Standard" colour profile is very much like the THX mode. It is sharpened. Personally I find Sky HD a bit too soft on HD channels compared to blu-ray. With blu-ray I religiously do not add sharpening. But then I find Sky HD looking soft in comparison. So while the default is a bit high, a little sharpening and detail enhancement is not untoward I feel.

But I want to maximise some of these new features. It is easy to correct the greyscale and apply it to the Natural preset rather than a user 1 if you want to. You can also insert custom colour profiles into presets like Natural as well....even the 3D preset. The big issue is how to maximise accuracy of the Xenon presets as they use their own colour temperatures which are undocumented. I suspect they are an offset applied to 6500k or D65.

I dont know how many colour temperatures are actually calibrated at the factory...or if its just one at 6500k and all the rest are derived offsets.

[Manni01]

Originally Posted by KelvinS1965

As usual thanks for your sterling efforts at creating a level playing field to compare with your HD750. Unlike some others you didn't just plug it in and say 'wow it looks so much better'. As you've got a properly darkened room I'd recommend trying a gamma at 2.3. Since I recalibrated my HD350 using the external VidoeEQ I can change my 'base' gamma by using the HD350's custom gamma at default for 2.1, 2.2 and 2.3. The corrections in the VEQ mean that 2.1 and 2.2 measure as flat as the 2.3 'base' I used for the calibration. Invariably I find that 2.3 looks to have more depth especially since I opened up the iris to ensure I'm getting 12-14fL. I reckon this is also partly why I wasn't overly wowed with the demo X7 that was running in THX mode @ 200 hours so may already have been suffering from 'gamma droop' possibly making it even less than 2.2.

I found that my i1LT measured gamma just as well as the rented i1Pro, but off screen it would work down to 10IRE when the i1Pro was less accurate. By doing the offset to face the projector (as you did in Chromapure) I was able to make adjustments to the gamma at 5IRE which seems to help with shadow detail (again something the demo X7 was lacking in).

It seems that not everyone has woken up to the fact that with a projector it is as much up to room setup and calibration. Luckily I don't have to watch an uncalibrated projector in a white room though.

Totally agree regarding gamma, I usually run a 2.3 gamma in the Bat Bin, but because of the black crush you get out ot the box I wanted to first take it to the standard and see what it looked like.

By the way, the dark/light adjustment on the X7 is a great way to sort out the black crush if you don't have a meter. But that won't solve the steep gamma droop which had already started to appear in the high end, and which probably didn't help the X7 you saw at a demo. No problem to solve it with the gamma controls though, and they are so much nicer than the ones on the 750 it's a real pleasure to use them.

The gamma presets which are supposed to give you 2.3 and 2.4 etc aren't very good, so I'm afraid it's either the dark adjust if you're in a hurry and just want to get rid of the black crush, or a full gamma calibration which produces an infinitely better result for a very modest time investment.

I can totally believe you weren't wowed by the OOTB THX mode. It's OK to start with, but very quickly (I'd say after 25-50 hours) it becomes a bit flat and washed out as the greyscale and gamma change with the lamp aging. The difference between THX after a while and a good (not perfect) calibration on the X7 is the same as on the 750. From good to great. I know there is still room for improvement if we find a better profile as a starting point to improve the way saturations track, or if the CMS is improved in a further version.

In any case the picture is stunning, and those interested in 2D coming from a 750 or older will find the calibrated X7 a substantial improvement over the older generation. Unfortunately I have never seen a 950/990 (didn't want to be tempted!) so I can't compare with these.

Re the i1pro, I really don't trust it below IRE15, even trained to itself and facing the PJ. Even with smoothed measurements (3 measures/mean) it keeps moving around. Even its accuracy on blue is bordeline if facing the screen. The trained LT is much more reliable at these IREs, so I'm probably going to get a license for it for Chromapure soon.

[Manni01]

One last thing, it looks like the dual iris on the X7 is working well to prevent the ANSI contrast loss as you close down the lens aperture. It was quite obvious by eye on the 750, and much less so on the X7. So unless you need to open the iris to get more brightness, you can close it down as much as you want to benefit from the increased on/off. I'll try to confirm this next time I get the luxmeter out if I gather the strength to look at more patterns, but I'd be surprised if there isn't a measurable improvement there. That is, hoping that the best ANSI is still as good, if not better (it was around 280 as far as I remember on my 750 with the iris fully open). When the iris is fully open on the X7, it doesn't look like a massive improvement, but at least it doesn't go down (as much if at all) as you close the iris, so there is no need to find a compromise there between the two as there was on the 750, where you kind of needed to open the iris on brighter pictures - yes, quite a paradox - to make sure they didn't look flat.

[JonStatt]

Originally Posted by Manni01

One last thing, it looks like the dual iris on the X7 is working well to prevent the ANSI contrast loss as you close down the lens aperture. It was quite obvious by eye on the 750, and much less so on the X7. So unless you need to open the iris to get more brightness, you can close it down as much as you want to benefit from the increased on/off. I'll try to confirm this next time I get the luxmeter out if I gather the strength to look at more patterns, but I'd be surprised if there isn't a measurable improvement there. That is, hoping that the best ANSI is still as good, if not better (it was around 280 as far as I remember on my 750 with the iris fully open). When the iris is fully open on the X7, it doesn't look like a massive improvement, but at least it doesn't go down (as much if at all) as you close the iris, so there is no need to find a compromise there between the two as there was on the 750, where you kind of needed to open the iris on brighter pictures - yes, quite a paradox - to make sure they didn't look flat.

The weird thing and I would really like JVC to respond on...is why does it alternate between the front and rear iris adjustments. We know the front aperture WILL affect ANSI. We belive the rear one will not. So it should stop down the rear one all the way first, THEN, if you still want more drop in output, start altering the front one. The way it alternates means that ANSI will still be affected albeit not as much. A strange strange decision from my current limited understanding of this new bit of hardware.

[Manni01]

Originally Posted by JonStatt

The weird thing and I would really like JVC to respond on...is why does it alternate between the front and rear iris adjustments. We know the front aperture WILL affect ANSI. We belive the rear one will not. So it should stop down the rear one all the way first, THEN, if you still want more drop in output, start altering the front one. The way it alternates means that ANSI will still be affected albeit not as much. A strange strange decision from my current limited understanding of this new bit of hardware.

You may get some chromatic aberrations or adverse effects on the light path doing it the way you describe? I'm not an expert either in optics (or in anything really), but there may be a technical reason for this approach, otherwise why not use only one iris (the one in the back) that you would close down even further?

[Phil Hinton]

Guys, remember to put the meters away and go and watch some films before you run up even more hours fiddling!!

[Manni01]

Originally Posted by Phil Hinton

Guys, remember to put the meters away and go and watch some films before you run up even more hours fiddling!!

Ask JVC to provide a user manual and a fully working CMS, and believe me I would have spent less time doing reverse engineering and watching patterns.

I've still seen about 15 movies over a week or so, which isn't too bad. Calibration was done at night time mostly, after work and family duties (yes, watching 2/3 of these movies was for work, I'm two months late and have about 50 more movies to watch!).

When are you writing a review of the X7 Phil? I'd be interested to see how you get on with the new CMS. I thought you had cleared two weeks?

[Phil Hinton]

Originally Posted by Manni01

Ask JVC to provide a user manual and a fully working CMS, and believe me I would have spent less time doing reverse engineering and watching patterns.

I've still seen about 15 movies over a week or so, which isn't too bad. Calibration was done at night time mostly, after work and family duties (yes, watching 2/3 of these movies was for work, I'm two months late and have about 50 more movies to watch!).

When are you writing a review of the X7 Phil? I'd be interested to see how you get on with the new CMS. I thought you had cleared two weeks?

Review X7 is in transit but has yet to appear at the doorstep. If it is not here by tomorrow then the review will be after I get back from CES.

[JonStatt]

Originally Posted by Phil Hinton

Guys, remember to put the meters away and go and watch some films before you run up even more hours fiddling!!

You know Phil...you actually make a really good point! Everytime I upgrade I seem to burn 100 hours staring at test screens, convergence and calibration. It can become obsessive.

[lovingdvd]

Originally Posted by Manni01

...By the way, the dark/light adjustment on the X7 is a great way to sort out the black crush if you don't have a meter. But that won't solve the steep gamma droop which had already started to appear in the high end, and which probably didn't help the X7 you saw at a demo. No problem to solve it with the gamma controls though, and they are so much nicer than the ones on the 750 it's a real pleasure to use them...

Manni - are you already seeing the gamma drift issue on the new unit?

I agree the new controls for dark/light gamma adjustments are a very nice touch. Personally I would not use them because I calibrate to a custom gamma curve, but for those without the time or desire to calibrate it manually the new controls are a nice alternative.

At any rate, if your unit is already drifting its disappointing to hear they haven't solved it. Also makes me wonder if the new controls were added as a way to combat the drift (better than just ignoring the issue I suppose).

[Manni01]

Originally Posted by lovingdvd

Manni - are you already seeing the gamma drift issue on the new unit?

I agree the new controls for dark/light gamma adjustments are a very nice touch. Personally I would not use them because I calibrate to a custom gamma curve, but for those without the time or desire to calibrate it manually the new controls are a nice alternative.

At any rate, if your unit is already drifting its disappointing to hear they haven't solved it. Also makes me wonder if the new controls were added as a way to combat the drift (better than just ignoring the issue I suppose).

The only thing I'm seeing is that the gamma curves were almost flat at 2.1 when I measured it out of he box (hence the very good initial results with THX and the standard profile), but after 75 hours gamma doesn't measure as well, and is too low in the higher end. It may be specific to my lamp/unit though, so please wait until you get more reports before drawing a conclusion. I don't think Jon has seen such an evolution with his unit, so he may comment.

[EDIT: this was probably due to contrast set slightly too high at 2, no gamma drift with contrast set to 1].

[JonStatt]

Originally Posted by Manni01

The only thing I'm seeing is that the gamma curves were almost flat at 2.1 wen I measured it out of he box (hence the very good initial results with THX and the standard profile), but after 75 hours gamma doesn't measure as well, and is too low in the higher end. It may be specific to my lamp/unit though, so please wait until you get more reports before drawing a conclusion. I don't think Jon has seen such an evolution with his unit, so he may comment.

I haven't seen as much, but remember I didn't measure when it was new. I am seeing 2.2 in the lower ends and about 2.1 in the upper IREs implying some droop has happened.

Also note that I have gone from 95 hours now to 118 and the max lumens has not changed implying I am now on the stable part of the lamp life. I really hope that to be the case anyway.

Just for reference, to measure max lumens you need to set the colour temperature to 8500k on a user preset and then switch CMS off. I think its a bug, but the colour temperature set affects things even wheN CMS is switched off. You then need to go to the shortest possible throw. I can't do that but my projector is already near the shortest end...maybe 5-10% away from it. This reads at 1100 lumens (convert EV to lux, then multiply by square meterage of screen). I consistently read this same number for more than 20 hours now. If I had started at 1300 lumens then I have dropped 15%. But as I am 5-10% away from shortest throw, in reality the drop is probably more like 10% which would be very typical for 100 hours.

I measure around 430 lumens in 3D (before glasses). At shortest throw this would probably be around 450. After glasses of course this does mean lower than 200 lumens with glasses losing about 65% of the light.

The strange thing is, these numbers very closely match cine4home's measurements but where I differ hugely, is that he got X3s to D65 with an average of 890 lumens. Whereas I am a bit under 600 at D65.

[Manni01]

Originally Posted by JonStatt

I haven't seen as much, but remember I didn't measure when it was new. I am seeing 2.2 in the lower ends and about 2.1 in the upper IREs implying some droop has happened.

Also note that I have gone from 95 hours now to 118 and the max lumens has not changed implying I am now on the stable part of the lamp life. I really hope that to be the case anyway.

Just for reference, to measure max lumens you need to set the colour temperature to 8500k on a user preset and then switch CMS off. I think its a bug, but the colour temperature set affects things even wheN CMS is switched off. You then need to go to the shortest possible throw. I can't do that but my projector is already near the shortest end...maybe 5-10% away from it. This reads at 1100 lumens (convert EV to lux, then multiply by square meterage of screen). I consistently read this same number for more than 20 hours now. If I had started at 1300 lumens then I have dropped 15%. But as I am 5-10% away from shortest throw, in reality the drop is probably more like 10% which would be very typical for 100 hours.

I measure around 430 lumens in 3D (before glasses). At shortest throw this would probably be around 450. After glasses of course this does mean lower than 200 lumens with glasses losing about 65% of the light.

The strange thing is, these numbers very closely match cine4home's measurements but where I differ hugely, is that he got X3s to D65 with an average of 890 lumens. Whereas I am a bit under 600 at D65.

My gamma curves are clearly worse than yours, so it's probably specific to my unit (I may have got a defective lamp, I'm waiting for a replacement lamp to confirm, but that may not happen for a couple of weeks as there are none in stock at the moment, plus everyone is on Holiday).

Jon, are you making your brightness measurements with a luxmeter? If yes, which one?

In which iris setting/throw distance did Cine4Home make these measurements?

Regarding the temp color, you can also select it once the CMS is switched off in the service menu (that's the way you can select a user greyscale for THX for example).

It's not a bug, the temp color has always been separate from the CMS. It's only when you switch the color profile (not the CMS) off that is greys out all the options, including color temp.

[JonStatt]

Originally Posted by Manni01

My gamma curves are clearly worse than yours, so it's probably specific to my unit (I may have got a defective lamp, I'm waiting for a replacement lamp to confirm, but that may not happen for a couple of weeks as there are none in stock at the moment, plus everyone is on Holiday).

Jon, are you making your brightness measurements with a luxmeter? If yes, which one?

In which iris setting/throw distance did Cine4Home make these measurements?

Apologies I meant to say colour profile off, not CMS off. When colour profile is off, the colour temperature is greyed out, but its previous last setting affects the results.

I am using a Sekonic L-358 meter. It has a section in the manual devoted to measuring Lux. But the reading comes up in EV and then it has a table to convert this to Lux. Then from Lux I can convert to lumens (based on square meters). For example if the screen was 1 meter high, then a 16:9 screen would mean you would multiply the lux reading by 1.69.

Do you see any issue with using this meter? I must say I found it very difficult to find a good user guide on measuring this stuff, so I did my own self study.

I place the meter with its back against the screen. It has a dome that can protrude or retract and it is fully retracted. I am measuring incident light, not reflected. I have to set it to ISO 100 to get an appropriate reading.



Cine4home measured at the absolute max which would be shortest throw, colour profile off, aperture open etc. He then measures contrast at maximum throw, iris closed etc.

[Manni01]

Originally Posted by JonStatt

Apologies I meant to say colour profile off, not CMS off. When colour profile is off, the colour temperature is greyed out, but its previous last setting affects the results.

I am using a Sekonic L-358 meter. It has a section in the manual devoted to measuring Lux. But the reading comes up in EV and then it has a table to convert this to Lux. Then from Lux I can convert to lumens (based on square meters). For example if the screen was 1 meter high, then a 16:9 screen would mean you would multiply the lux reading by 1.69.

Do you see any issue with using this meter? I must say I found it very difficult to find a good user guide on measuring this stuff, so I did my own self study.

I place the meter with its back against the screen. It has a dome that can protrude or retract and it is fully retracted. I am measuring incident light, not reflected. I have to set it to ISO 100 to get an appropriate reading.



Cine4home measured at the absolute max which would be shortest throw, colour profile off, aperture open etc. He then measures contrast at maximum throw, iris closed etc.

Don't know this meter, sorry, I'm using a Tecpel which provides readings in Lux directly, without any need to chose an ISO range, so much easier to use. Maybe someone more experienced will be able to help. I was just wondering about this EV->Lux conversion, I understand now.

The procedure (meter at the screen, facing the PJ) sounds right though if it works like the Tecpel.

[lovingdvd]

leDahu has done experiments that showed his gamma drift was not caused by the bulb (same issue with a new versus his old bulb).

[Manni01]

Originally Posted by lovingdvd

leDahu has done experiments that showed his gamma drift was not caused by the bulb (same issue with a new versus his old bulb).

I do not wish to comment on this in this calibration thread, as it is entirely off topic.

Any gamma changes I've noticed are fully correctable with the gamma controls anyway, so not concerned about that at all.

[lovingdvd]

Originally Posted by Manni01

I do not wish to comment on this in this calibration thread, as it is entirely off topic.

Any gamma changes I've noticed are fully correctable with the gamma controls anyway, so not concerned about that at all.

I don't see how discussing gamma is entirely off topic in a calibration thread, but if you don't want to discuss it here that's fine. I was simply trying to save you some troubleshooting and time by letting you know that its unlikely that you have a bad bulb, based on leDahu's findings.

[Manni01]

Originally Posted by lovingdvd

I don't see how discussing gamma is entirely off topic in a calibration thread, but if you don't want to discuss it here that's fine. I was simply trying to save you some troubleshooting and time by letting you know that its unlikely that you have a bad bulb, based on leDahu's findings.

What is off topic is discussing LeDahu's specific experience with a 750 and his conclusions in a thread about calibrating the X7/X9, but I do appreciate your advice.

[JonStatt]

As a bulb ages, and with red dropping faster than the others, surely the gamma must flatten due to the bulb? Perhaps there is a panel ageing effect as well, but to say that a new bulb won't restore any of the droop wouldn't make sense to me either.

[Manni01]

As my teething problems with Chromapure are resolved, I thought I would give a little feedback about the use of Chromapure to calibrate JVC projectors, and especially the X7/X9, after I spent about 20-30 hours playing with the combo in my calibration attempts. Kelvin has already given a lot of feedback in the excellent thread he started about the Chromapure / 350 combo, and there are a few professional reviews available, so I'll try to be brief.

First of all I received great support from both RickyJ and Tom Huffman/Chromapure, which helped to solve all my initial issues, so many thanks to both of them.

I've used Chromapure 2.0.3 with my HTPC or a Sony laptop with an HDMI output, so that I could use the internal patterns generator to speed up the calibration process. I usually do a last run with the BD (disc or ISO) playing from the final chain, i.e. the BD player or the Mediaplayer, but to get 99% there it's much faster. There is a small bug (which should be corrected soon) that displays two patterns windows instead of one. Since I killed the "wrong" window instead of minimising it, as suggested by Chromapure support, I have experienced much less stability issues, in fact none over my last few calibrations, so hopefully when this dual patterns bug is fixed the instability I experienced initially will also go away for good.

I guess there are less users using the internal patterns than the manual DVD/BD method (or the external pattern generators professionals often use) to calibrate, which is why it may have not been fixed earlier and why other users have had no problems with the same meter (i1pro).

My main calibration software until now was HCFR, so that will be my main reference point in this brief review.

The first thing that I liked about Chromapure was its ability to save pre-calibration and post-calibration measurements in the same file. With HCFR, you have to save as many files as measurement sets, and that's not ideal.

Then I really liked the interface/workflow, which strikes the right balance between suggesting a logical progression and allowing you to move freely between the different modules (white balance, gamma, color management etc) of the software. With HCFR, you can do it all, but there is no structure to organise your work. I like structure.

The other significant improvement over HCFR is regarding the internal patterns generators. HCFR has one, which works perfectly to measure greyscale and gamut in a snap. However, when you want to select an individual pattern to work on a specific color or at a specific IRE level, it is "frozen" in display pattern mode, and you can't get the realtime measurements needed to adjust the controls. With Chromapure, you go instantly to the right pattern, and you can correct the HSL for the color, or the gamma value, or the gains/offsets values, in real-time. This, for me, is one of the strongest points of Chromapure, and a huge timesaver. It's probably less relevant for those who use the DVD manual patterns, but if you want to save a lot of time in your calibrations, it's well worth using this (or an external pattern/generator).

More relevant to this thread is the way some options allow you to facilitate the calibration of JVC projectors, especially those with a CMS like the X7/X9.

When working on gamma, you can select to work at 5%, 15% and 95%, which the JVC offers, without having to measure a full 20 steps / 5% IRE greyscale, which would be a waste of time in this case as the controls are not available for all the points [edit: it is of course possible to run a full 5% greyscale if you wish]. Adjusting Gamma with Chromapure and the working controls of the post 750/rs20 controls is an absolute joy: select the IRE level, push gamma up or down, and within a few passes and 5-10 minutes, you're done. Part of this improvement is due to the fact that the gamma controls work independantly on the post rs-20/75- models, but part of it is due to the great interface of Chromapure, which makes this task so much easier than when working with HCFR.

When working on the gamut, you can select - instead of RGB or xyY which may be more appropriate for other displays and are also available - the HSL colorspace, which allows you to work directly on the parameters handled by the JVC CMS. Chromapure shows you how much you need to move up or down the three controls (Hue, Saturation, Lightness/Brightness) which the CMS offers for each color. This is great, as it means for example that you don't have to remember in which direction hue/saturation goes for each color. Even if the next version of HCFR will handle luminance (which means you won't have to use an external calculator/spreadsheet to adjust Y), I find the interface in Chromapure superior.

Training another meter (or the same one to calibrate from the PJ for better low light precision while taking the screen into account) works as well as in HCFR, but is much easier to set up (there is a dedicated screen for that in Chromapure, and it's very straightforward, while in HCFR you have to work it out on your own).

I also really liked the detailed reports, one thing that is entirely missing from HCFR, and makes sharing your results with others (or keeping track of them) much easier.

HCFR allows you to save more information at the moment (for example the saturations measurements), but Tom recently said that the next version of Chromapure will allow to save these.

There are a few things which could be improved in my opinion:

- The ability to set the internal patterns to calibrate at 75% stimulus (only possible at 100% at the moment)
- The ability to generate and save advanced measurements for both the pre-calibration and the post calibration measurements, and to integrate this data in the detailed report if needed. This would allow to compare how the display tracks at different saturations/stimulus level, and how the calibration affects this. Also there is a little bug in the advanced measurement screen, which allows you to reset the data but not to measure it again. You have to quit the software or create a new file to be able to remeasure.
- The ability to save the settings/options, and to include them if we want to in the reports. [edit: to clarify, the settings can be saved, but if you create a new file you have to retype the settings which do not change if you calibrate the same display. Creating a template is the easiest workaround for this situation).
- A more standard way to manage files, so that it only asks you for a name the first time you save it (when there is no name), and offers a "save as" option in the file menu to easily make a copy of the file. An "open" option in the menu would be welcome too.
- The ability to chose a different dE method for greyscale and gamut. At the moment, it is the same for all the measurements [edit: but you can switch easily in the software between the methods without having to remeasure if you want to compare with another reference]. The reports should also clearly indicate the dE method used for each graph/table, as for example HCFR and Chromapure use different dE methods by default [edit: CIELUV 76 vs CIE 94], which makes a direct comparison between calibrations difficult.
- It would be nice if you could display (as an option) the saturations on the before/after Chromaticity graphs, as it is possible in HCFR, to get a sense of the way they track re x,y visually, on the graph. [edit: to clarify, at the moment it is possible to show the saturations on the graph in the software, but not in the reports].

As you can see, very little things, and nothing major. Overall, I'd say that Chromapure 2.0 is a substantial improvement over HCFR, well worth the money, and a definite time saver, especially if you do advanced CMS like gamma and gamut with a JVC projector. The improved interface and the time saving functions mean that I find it very difficult to go back to HCFR now.

In other words, highly recommended

More info and links to professional reviews here: Chromapure Powerbuy
Kelvin's thread about the 350/Chromapure combo here: Chromapure experiences.

Please ask generic questions about Chromapure in the powerbuy thread which is monitored by RickyJ, and X7/X9 specific questions here if you wish, so that we can keep the thread on topic.

[lovingdvd]

Originally Posted by Manni01

...When working on gamma, you can select to work at 5%, 15% and 95%, which the JVC offers, without having to measure a full 20 steps / 5% IRE greyscale, which would be a waste of time in this case as the controls are not available for all the points...

Thanks Manni. Is there still an option to go in 5% steps all the way from 5-95%? That is useful for those with an external processor like the Radiance which provides a 21pt grayscale and gamma adjustment.

Is there any RS-232 support for working with processors like the Radiance?

Also is there an option to define a custom gamma curve (i.e. a bump in the lower range) or is it fixed for the whole curve at the level you select (2.2, 2.3 etc)? And will it plot the R G and B lines separately for measured gamma or only one line for W?

[Manni01]

Originally Posted by lovingdvd

Thanks Manni. Is there still an option to go in 5% steps all the way from 5-95%? That is useful for those with an external processor like the Radiance which provides a 21pt grayscale and gamma adjustment.

Is there any RS-232 support for working with processors like the Radiance?

Also is there an option to define a custom gamma curve (i.e. a bump in the lower range) or is it fixed for the whole curve at the level you select (2.2, 2.3 etc)? And will it plot the R G and B lines separately for measured gamma or only one line for W?

Yes, you can chose a 5% steps if you want the full greyscale, the 5%, 15% and 95% are just optional steps to add to the 10 steps greyscale to save time if you're using the JVC internal CMS/processor.

Apart from the internal patterns, there is support for the DVDO Duo and the Lumagen Radiance.

Nothing is fixed in the gamma range, it shows you the reference you have selected, and where each control point measures, and you can in real time either move each point to the chosen reference, or do any kind of bump you wish (provided the range of controls allow them of course).

If you want to work on the RGB curves separately, Chromapure won't plot separate lines (you only get on screen the luminance target), but it does better in my opinion. It displays in real-time to the right of the gamma curve the RGB balance for the chosen control point, so you just have to select the color on which you want to work in the JVC controls to adjust it, and you'll see the results in real-time, so that any change you make is reflected on the balance, for both white and each color. It is very well designed and thought through, you can see that it was designed by someone who knows calibration inside out (in fact someone most of us learnt a lot from), and who responded very positively to the feedback from early users.

[lovingdvd]

Originally Posted by Manni01

...Nothing is fixed in the gamma range, it shows you the reference you have selected, and where each control point measures, and you can in real time either move each point to the chosen reference, or do any kind of bump you wish (provided the range of controls allow them of course)...

I'm not sure I'm following you. What I want to be able to do is define my own curve. Just for simplicity say 2.2 at 5%, 2.25 at 10%, 2.3 at 15% and 2.4 from 20% and up. Can I do this and have it track my results according to that curve?

[Manni01]

Originally Posted by lovingdvd

I'm not sure I'm following you. What I want to be able to do is define my own curve. Just for simplicity say 2.2 at 5%, 2.25 at 10%, 2.3 at 15% and 2.4 from 20% and up. Can I do this and have it track my results according to that curve?

The software shows you a line showing the reference you have selected (say 2.2), and where each control point you have measured fits on that line. You can then move the controls and track in real time the point getting closer (or further away) from the reference. It is entirely up to you to decide if you want to bring them to the reference line, or lower, or higher (you still get the absolute value in real time for each point, so you know exactly the value itself for gamma at each control point). So even if you can't picture it yet, trust me, you can calibrate to any curve you wish.

Have a look at the videos on the Chromapure website, and download the user manual for the V2.0, it will give you a very good idea of the way the software works (links in the Chromapure powerbuy thread).

Also feel free to ask further generic questions about the software in the powerbuy thread, RickyJ is very knowledgeable and can answer all technical questions.

[JonStatt]

As I noticed earlier and Manni wrote-up, Chromapure REALLY needs to be able to specify dE 1976 for greyscale and not just 1994. Otherwise it is not comparable against other software. I am interested in some of the tools it provides but I would need/want to be able to compare against my other tools.

[Manni01]

Originally Posted by JonStatt

As I noticed earlier and Manni wrote-up, Chromapure REALLY needs to be able to specify dE 1976 for greyscale and not just 1994. Otherwise it is not comparable against other software. I am interested in some of the tools it provides but I would need/want to be able to compare against my other tools.

You can already do this in the software, and select the dE method you want on the fly, it will update all the tables, so you can easily compare the results. It's mainly for the reports that it would be good to be able to specify a different reference for each if you prefer to do so, and indicate on the report which one is used for clarity.

[Manni01]

Two quick things that I wanted to clarify.

First Tom pointed out after reading the mini-review that you could save the settings, and of course he's right. All the settings used for a calibration (pre/post) can be saved if you have written them down in the settings screen. What I meant was that when you're not calibrating for someone else, the display, brand, etc is likely to stay the same, but the info is reset if you create a new file (new calibration). I guess that as a way around you could copy an existing file, but then you have the risk of keeping old measurement data and not realising that. The best workaround is probably to create a "template" file per display with the information that won't change, and create a copy for each calibration, but with no measurements to avoid any errors.

The second thing is that although you don't get the advanced measurement data in the reports, you can already visualise the saturations on the CIE chart, like on HCFR, if you click on the graph tab in advanced measurements, once the data is collected.

I'll update the post itself soon to reflect this.