[spitty]

Hi,

I feel completely out of my depth on this particular forum, so my apologies if this is an obviously silly question.

Having read, read and read, I have tried calibrating my new Panasonic 37V10 myself (especially seeing as I already had an i1). Once I figured out that I could only make changes to Normal/Normal setting within the service menu, and that the warm values are simply a fixed offset from the normal ones, I have gotten reasonably close to what I was after with cinema/warm (particularly, slightly less gamma than 2.2 to keep my wife happy - 2.14min:2.2Max ).

I twiddled the RGB values using the 30%/80% IRE Pluge patterns, such that I am pretty happy with everything >30%, but below that the Blue level is way off (I think I can manage to improve the red a little at 90%). I have attached a screenshot of the cinema/warm RGB defaults of my screen, and my post-calibration results ( I expect you can tell which is which!).

I tried tweaking with the 20% pattern and reducing blue-cent, but I could only make things worse across the entire range.

Would it be possible for anybody to suggest what I should be concentrating on doing to improve the bottom-end? I haven't touched tint/colour in the service menu, and haven't looked to see if that even has any effect on the HDMI source.

If I could only get the 20% blue down, I would be tempted to leave it at that - or am I just being greedy trying?

Equipment:
37V10B TV
DMR-BS750 (set to cinema)
Digital Video Essentials Blu Ray disc
I1 display2
HCFR Colorimeter

Thanks for any suggestions, I now realise the professional calibrators must have a lot of patience to do this day in day out!

[mwardy]

***I wrote the following without reading the OP properly and assumed it was a PZ70 or 80! It may thus be of absolutely no use at all! But it might still be, which is why I'm leaving it as is****


As no-one else has responded to this I'll have a go, even though like you I am just picking this up through reading and am not a pro.

Originally Posted by spitty

Once I figured out that I could only make changes to Normal/Normal setting within the service menu

Does this mean you are calibrating normal/normal then? But you can change both of these within the service menu on the appropriate page (WB ADJ). The numbered buttons to use are indicated in the menu. BUT beware: as you probably know, even with these properly selected, the picture in and out of the s/m looks different, so you have to take a measurement, go in and make adjustments, then exit the s/m before taking new readings. A bit of a grind.

The upside of your current settings is that you are getting decent gamma, whereas on cinema/warm I struggle to reach 1.95. The downside is that normal is *not* the same as cinema with an offset: it has floating blacks, which drive me mad. (These may may be the reason for the better gamma, though I'm not sure about this--any pointers from anyone else would be welcome.)

Originally Posted by spitty

I twiddled the RGB values using the 30%/80% IRE Pluge patterns

I'm a bit confused--surely you have to measure at every 10 IRE interval to get the data? Or do you mean you were taking continuous measures on these points as you tweaked? That won't work because of the behaviour of the service menu. You have to make an adjustment, exit the s/m, and do another run to see the effects of the tweaks.

Originally Posted by spitty

I tried tweaking with the 20% pattern and reducing blue-cent, but I could only make things worse across the entire range.

...Would it be possible for anybody to suggest what I should be concentrating on doing to improve the bottom-end?

I'm not sure what you mean by blue-cent, but surely the obvious thing would be to lower blue cut a few points and see what happens?

People have also said these probes aren't very accurate at 20 IRE and below, so there may be nothing more to do anyway

...though that's no reason not to give it a go.

[spitty]

Thanks for the reply.

I hope this thread hasn't tread on any ISF calibrators' toes - please forgive me if it has. (Moderator, please could you move this thread to the main "Room Acoustics, Audio and Video Calibration" forum?). I realise this is how you earn your living and do not want to give anyone the impression that this is in any way simple to do - in fact, it is even more fiddly and time-consuming than I had imagined despite weeks of background reading.

Regarding the service menu, I have to modify the Normal/Normal values so that, once the firmware has applied its fixed offsets, the Cinema/Warm values are correct. As you mention, operating in Cinema/Warm within the service menu is not the same as in user mod, but it was close enough for me to get close, then it was the tediously frustrating exit/enter/tweak/exit/measure/enter/tweak/exit.....

I have to say that, even with my complete lack of experience, Panasonic do seem to be a bit stingy with their inability to calibrate warm/normal totally independently, and only for a single common source. I usually suffer from lens-envy, but calibration-envy is just ridiculous!

The guide I have used recommends using the 80%/30% window to make Gain/Cut adjustments, which is what I did. As far as I can tell, the -cent value does the same as what I believe the cuts do, but I would welcome any suggestions to the contrary.

I think I will have another go today, to at least improve the red. I got so fed up with the menu/exit dance, that I hoped to try and get some advice on the blue before I subjected myself to the torture again.

It this thread is moved, I will post my thoughts if I figure it out.

[Iain Gibson]

Hey there,

The issue with using 20%/80% (or 20%/70%) windows for your Cut and Gain adjustments is the accuracy that your meter will lose compared to 30%/80%. Some calibrators do recommend using 20% if possible on Panasonic screens, so it is worth a go -- but success depends on a good meter. Obviously there is no point in getting 20% spot on only to find that the rest of the range is messed up

Cheers,
Iain

[spitty]

Thanks Ian,

I had enabled multiple reads for dark samples because I too thought it might be down to a deficiency in the i1Display2. And on reflection, I probably won't be able to see the error anyway.

This is not the first time I wished I had originally forked out for the i1Pro, rather than i1dispay2. It seemed a bit OTT way back then when I started getting in to photography, and before I needed to be able to do my own printer profiling, but hey ho.

Once I have had a further fiddle, I might take 25% readings manually and see if it is better than graphed by the software.

[Iain Gibson]

Originally Posted by spitty

This is not the first time I wished I had originally forked out for the i1Pro, rather than i1dispay2. It seemed a bit OTT way back then when I started getting in to photography, and before I needed to be able to do my own printer profiling, but hey ho.

Well Christmas is on the horizon...

I

[spitty]

For reference, I think it was indeed my i1Display2 reading incorrectly down at 20%. When I tried again, I used the 25% pattern instead of the 20% and it the measuring was much better.

Given the probable unreliability of my measuring device, I didn't bother trying to improve on the max Delta E=1.8 I obtained with relatively minor tweaking (RGB graph attached, 20% was taken with 25% pattern).

I am pretty chuffed with the picture, and it is so nice to have natural-looking colours in both Normal and Cinema modes. I didn't spend any time watching it before calibrating, so I can't actually compare the out-of-box picture - there was no point letting my wife get used to the out-of-box experience, only to tweak it and try and convince her it is actually better than before.

It is amazing that the 37V10 calibrated so well with so few parameters to play with, so I can only imagine that in experienced hands, the picture would look outstanding (well, outstanding compared to other LCDs anyway).

Right, time to stop fiddling and actually enjoy it.....

Spitty