[jondw1970]

Hi, Ive scoured a number of forums/advice from various people and I hope someone can help me in my quest!

I live in a Victorian semi (9' brick walls etc) - next door is a shared house (shared, not HMO so doesnt have to have the same planning/soundproofing regulations) - consequently I am having problems with 5 people/students living next door (noise from shouting, some music noise, loud footsteps/banging doors on wooden floor etc) - no doubt I will also be creating noise from my hi-fi sub etc.

So, in the abscence of any useful help from the builder/owner of the property next door, I have decided to ask a joiner to help soundproof my side. What I want to gain personally is

1) Not to be able to clearly hear loud voices/laughing, loudish TV noise
2) Reduce noise heard by stereo/hifi
3) My 10 month old not to be woken up by the above!

I understand that I wont get 100% quiet, but anything will help

This is my plan, for my bedroom (opposites next door bedroom), baby's bedroom (opposite next door corridor) I want to do this

- Baton wall ceiling to floor, fill with rockwool inbetween
- Add resilient bars horizontal
- Add 2 x layers of Fermacell/soundproof plasterboard to bars (offsetting each other)
- Mastic with soudnproof mastic/plater etc

I intend to use 100mm Rockwool slabs - (I have big rooms, tall ceilings) - I can cope with the reduction in room size

Front bedroom (mine) has laminate floor, baby's has carpet - WOULD CARPETING THE FRONT BEDROOM HELP?

Can anyone advise whether this is going to be a decent solution/help??

Next (downstairs) - I have a bit of a problem. Our main room opposes the 'shared rest/living area' for the students - this is quite noisy - I cant seem to baton out my wall as the door jamm is butted right up to the wall - does anyone know (short of moving the door frame or making the door shorter!) - what I could do here???

Downstairs is concrete floor...if that makes any difference to any answers!

Really hope someone can help. I dont want to cause trouble with the neighbours, council etc - as ultimately may lead to my house being harder to sell (it might come to that) - but I dont want to move, and this seems to be the option that is best suited for me at the moment

many thanks!

[amioa]

it will help yes, difficult to say what the effect will be but if you share joists with the neighbour then it may be worth investing in some flooring..

[ARNOLD AKIEN]

Originally Posted by jondw1970

Hi, Ive scoured a number of forums/advice from various people and I hope someone can help me in my quest!

I live in a Victorian semi (9' brick walls etc) - next door is a shared house (shared, not HMO so doesnt have to have the same planning/soundproofing regulations) - consequently I am having problems with 5 people/students living next door (noise from shouting, some music noise, loud footsteps/banging doors on wooden floor etc) - no doubt I will also be creating noise from my hi-fi sub etc.

So, in the abscence of any useful help from the builder/owner of the property next door, I have decided to ask a joiner to help soundproof my side. What I want to gain personally is


1) Not to be able to clearly hear loud voices/laughing, loudish TV noise
2) Reduce noise heard by stereo/hifi
3) My 10 month old not to be woken up by the above!

I understand that I wont get 100% quiet, but anything will help

This is my plan, for my bedroom (opposites next door bedroom), baby's bedroom (opposite next door corridor) I want to do this

- Baton wall ceiling to floor, fill with rockwool inbetween
- Add resilient bars horizontal
- Add 2 x layers of Fermacell/soundproof plasterboard to bars (offsetting each other)
- Mastic with soudnproof mastic/plater etc

I intend to use 100mm Rockwool slabs - (I have big rooms, tall ceilings) - I can cope with the reduction in room size

Front bedroom (mine) has laminate floor, baby's has carpet - WOULD CARPETING THE FRONT BEDROOM HELP?

Can anyone advise whether this is going to be a decent solution/help??

Next (downstairs) - I have a bit of a problem. Our main room opposes the 'shared rest/living area' for the students - this is quite noisy - I cant seem to baton out my wall as the door jamm is butted right up to the wall - does anyone know (short of moving the door frame or making the door shorter!) - what I could do here???

Downstairs is concrete floor...if that makes any difference to any answers!

Really hope someone can help. I dont want to cause trouble with the neighbours, council etc - as ultimately may lead to my house being harder to sell (it might come to that) - but I dont want to move, and this seems to be the option that is best suited for me at the moment many thanks!

So Many Questions.

AS Above.

No it isn't, " this seems to be the option that is best suited for me at the moment " really it IS NOT .. you already know of the problem and are therefor obliged to notify it to anyone purchasing your property or They will be entitled to seek remedy from YOU when they discover the Problem after Purchase. Sorry but that is the way that it works. SO,

No Don't DO This!


You need legal advice and you really have given up too soon!!! This is NOT just Your Problem!


First I have worked in a building that is not too distantly related to your own and my posts on the forum on this subject should be fairly easy to locate through use of the forums search engine.

Second ... You DO have a problem but it is a problem that you SHARE ! Your neighbors .. student rebels or NO are obliged to obey the law and that law on NOISE is governed not by their wishes to PARTY ON DOWN DUDE !!!! but by your babies wishes to Sleep !

SO .. first move is to get in touch with Environmental Health Department ... or whatever it is called localy - the People who charge you Local Council Tax aka the Civic Center will identify them and believe me they will be familiar with Student Noise - notify them of the situation.

Second : your problem is with the owner /Landlord of the Property and if the Sound Suppression Systems are inadequate then it is his and it NOT related to the age of the Building nor to the fact that it is now sub-divided shared .. AND IT is /hers his Tenants Problem and not yours! HE/She or IT must remedy the problem at their expense and not yours. Doesn't matter how inconvenient this might be to him .. landlords are hardly ever out of court in pursuing Tenants for one thing or another and the Traditional Moonlight Flit is the Least of their problems these days.

I mention Tenants because in the event that they prove unreasonable their Noisemakers CAN be Confiscated by the local authorities.... Neighbors From Hell style

So .. Soundproofing. It isn't easy in that sort of building .. whose Builders simply didn't anticipate the 21st Century.


Yes, you can sound proof the various walls and ceilings but that really will cost you /them a LOT of Money! SO !! The principle should be ..The Polluter Pays ...not your problem but rather Theirs.

You are in a Situation Of Negotiation ..and the Law is on your side so ...DO NOT BE TIMID !

First discover your support systems via the local Civic Center ..Second be aware of what can be done in collaboration with the local landlord /noise making property owner ..and then Graciously Permit YOUR property to be Sound Proofed at THEIR expense.


Be aware that the kind of property that you are concerned with is extremely hard to sound-proof and even sound suppression is problematical and Expensive. Why should you pay for it? Look for Flanking Noise on the Forums and see what I mean.


Investigate The Forums on the Subject and then come back, but in the mean time do build up your local support systems and get in touch with the local authority and your local town councilor ...suprising how people don't think of them even though they vote for them and DO pay their out of pocket expenses.


When you hit your Noisy Neighbors HIT them Hard , without warning and with lots of support. They aren't going to like it but then that's Their Problem.


Best Wishes and Sympathy,


Arnold.

[amioa]

Originally Posted by ARNOLD AKIEN

So Many Questions.

AS Above.

No it isn't, " this seems to be the option that is best suited for me at the moment " really it IS NOT .. you already know of the problem and are therefor obliged to notify it to anyone purchasing your property or They will be entitled to seek remedy from YOU when they discover the Problem after Purchase. Sorry but that is the way that it works. SO,

No Don't DO This!


You need legal advice and you really have given up too soon!!! This is NOT just Your Problem!


First I have worked in a building that is not too distantly related to your own and my posts on the forum on this subject should be fairly easy to locate through use of the forums search engine.

Second ... You DO have a problem but it is a problem that you SHARE ! Your neighbors .. student rebels or NO are obliged to obey the law and that law on NOISE is governed not by their wishes to PARTY ON DOWN DUDE !!!! but by your babies wishes to Sleep !

SO .. first move is to get in touch with Environmental Health Department ... or whatever it is called localy - the People who charge you Local Council Tax aka the Civic Center will identify them and believe me they will be familiar with Student Noise - notify them of the situation.

Second : your problem is with the owner /Landlord of the Property and if the Sound Suppression Systems are inadequate then it is his and it NOT related to the age of the Building nor to the fact that it is now sub-divided shared .. AND IT is /hers his Tenants Problem and not yours! HE/She or IT must remedy the problem at their expense and not yours. Doesn't matter how inconvenient this might be to him .. landlords are hardly ever out of court in pursuing Tenants for one thing or another and the Traditional Moonlight Flit is the Least of their problems these days.

I mention Tenants because in the event that they prove unreasonable their Noisemakers CAN be Confiscated by the local authorities.... Neighbors From Hell style

So .. Soundproofing. It isn't easy in that sort of building .. whose Builders simply didn't anticipate the 21st Century.


Yes, you can sound proof the various walls and ceilings but that really will cost you /them a LOT of Money! SO !! The principle should be ..The Polluter Pays ...not your problem but rather Theirs.

You are in a Situation Of Negotiation ..and the Law is on your side so ...DO NOT BE TIMID !

First discover your support systems via the local Civic Center ..Second be aware of what can be done in collaboration with the local landlord /noise making property owner ..and then Graciously Permit YOUR property to be Sound Proofed at THEIR expense.


Be aware that the kind of property that you are concerned with is extremely hard to sound-proof and even sound suppression is problematical and Expensive. Why should you pay for it? Look for Flanking Noise on the Forums and see what I mean.


Investigate The Forums on the Subject and then come back, but in the mean time do build up your local support systems and get in touch with the local authority and your local town councilor ...suprising how people don't think of them even though they vote for them and DO pay their out of pocket expenses.


When you hit your Noisy Neighbors HIT them Hard , without warning and with lots of support. They aren't going to like it but then that's Their Problem.


Best Wishes and Sympathy,


Arnold.

I wish i'd read the question properly now , an excellent answer from Arnold..

[jondw1970]

Thankyou Arnold for the reply, I can now see this better from another angle that I have been a little weary of pursuing.

Other forums/diy/problem neighbour sites all mention similar stories where tenants have been asked to quieten down, police called etc. Many end up with Councils/Environ Health being involved, having to record instances of noise and some end up with sound detection machines being installed - quite a lengthy process.

Worryingly, a number also then mention of backlash from tenants/owners in the form of revenge (broken windows, car scratches etc) - of course all anonymously carried out! - This hasnt happened to me (and Im not in an area that is prone to this) - But this is why I am a little weary (OK, timid!)

Is it definately the case that my idea of soundproofing wouldnt help significantly? I have read up on flanking and as mentioned do not expect 100% quiet, but if s/proofing will not make hardly any difference, then it may be a waste of money (I calculated approx £500-£600 per wall for materials + fitting) x 2 or 3 walls


My baby, Kef's and my BK monolith can be put into retaliation mode if required...lol

Appreciate your help/responses

[ARNOLD AKIEN]

Originally Posted by jondw1970

Thankyou Arnold for the reply, I can now see this better from another angle that I have been a little weary of pursuing.

Other forums/diy/problem neighbour sites all mention similar stories where tenants have been asked to quieten down, police called etc. Many end up with Councils/Environ Health being involved, having to record instances of noise and some end up with sound detection machines being installed - quite a lengthy process.

Worryingly, a number also then mention of backlash from tenants/owners in the form of revenge (broken windows, car scratches etc) - of course all anonymously carried out! - This hasnt happened to me (and Im not in an area that is prone to this) - But this is why I am a little weary (OK, timid!)

Is it definitely the case that my idea of soundproofing wouldn't help significantly? I have read up on flanking and as mentioned do not expect 100% quiet, but if s/proofing will not make hardly any difference, then it may be a waste of money (I calculated approx £500-£600 per wall for materials + fitting) x 2 or 3 walls


My baby, Kef's and my BK monolith can be put into retaliation mode if required...lol

Appreciate your help/responses

I am Certain, utterly CERTAIN, that you are Joking about retaliation. My advice is that you should be very carefull in anything that you say about this matter from now on ... a question of forming Good Habits when in the Legalistic COMBAT ZONE.

Do bear in mind that you are Already in a legalistic Combat Zone.

If you move and sell your property you are already bound to report your problems to prospective purchasers and since you have already asked Questions then it is Already a matter of Record.


It is a bit outside my field but I feel that whilst expending £500 or so per unit Problem will dull /blunt the problem a bit it wont be of much help and that you might be better off buying stuff .. rugs , furniture and so forth .. that you can take with you when you move. But, when you move you will be haunted by the thought that if you haven't reported your Noisy/Neighbors problems to the buyer then that problem will come back to bite you on the bum years hence

Yes it can take time to solve this kind of dispute but its a dispute that you already have and so the longer you put it off the more complicated it is likely to become .The thing is that the Neighboring - Students - Landlord may at any time now wish to sell his property whilst the market is in temporary rebound .... and then HE is obliged to report any problems that he is having with YOU. This being the case then it is in that landlords interests that the problem be solved ... and your interests that this should be done with the advice of the local Authorities.


In this situation you really are Stronger than you think that you might be ... provided that you move - with the authorities - on the problem with the Noisy/Neighbors /neighbouring landlord Now.

Easy for me to say of course but, as unpleasant as it is, that is the way that it is. Even now the opposition may be moving to pre-empt you ... get your ... perfectly legal and non-noisy retaliation in first.

Best Wishes,


Arnold.

[jondw1970]

Thanks again, Im going to rethink..

..and also, Im not joking about retaliation. I could post several links, heres a bit from a noisy neighobout site.

Stay Safe!
Unfortunately, many people live in a state of isolation from and fear of their neighbours. If you are uneasy about your neighbours, their intentions, what their reactions and/or retaliation might be to your complaint, then do not approach them.

Neighbourhood noise is often accompanied by other antisocial behaviour such as threats, vandalism, bullying and worse. If you feel you are at risk from this kind of behaviour from your noisy neighbours, it is better to let the authorities handle the situation entirely. Getting into heated arguments with noisy neighbours isn’t advised; with lots of anti-social individuals, things can quickly escalate beyond just nuisance and noise.


and this...

"Tell me about it it is absolutely ridiculous. We lived in a nice house until our new neighbour moved in. She has now decided to turn her house into a boarding kennel and sod the neighbours, noise, smell and disruption and what's more when we reported it to the council she smashed our car window and what can we do, nothing our local councillors have been very supportive but can do nothing so out of pure greed this woman devalues the neighbourhood cause distress and suffering to all and gets away with it..."

[ARNOLD AKIEN]

Originally Posted by jondw1970

Thanks again, Im going to rethink..

..and also, Im not joking about retaliation. I could post several links, heres a bit from a noisy neighobout site.Stay Safe!
Unfortunately, many people live in a state of isolation from and fear of their neighbours. If you are uneasy about your neighbours, their intentions, what their reactions and/or retaliation might be to your complaint, then do not approach them.

Neighbourhood noise is often accompanied by other antisocial behaviour such as threats, vandalism, bullying and worse.


If you feel you are at risk from this kind of behaviour from your noisy neighbours, it is better to let the authorities handle the situation entirely. Getting into heated arguments with noisy neighbors isn’t advised; with lots of anti-social individuals, things can quickly escalate beyond just nuisance and noise.


and this...

"Tell me about it it is absolutely ridiculous. We lived in a nice house until our new neighbour moved in. She has now decided to turn her house into a boarding kennel and sod the neighbours, noise, smell and disruption and what's more when we reported it to the council she smashed our car window and what can we do, nothing our local councillors have been very supportive but can do nothing so out of pure greed this woman devalues the neighbourhood cause distress and suffering to all and gets away with it..."

All well and good in a TV Neighbors From Hell Sense, BUT, that is about Them and This is about you and your family and my own thought is that you'd be very foolish to step outside the law in this matter.

Good advice That Above in Red. Well worth repeating ....


" If you feel you are at risk from this kind of behaviour from your noisy neighbours, it is better to let the authorities handle the situation entirely. Getting into heated arguments with noisy neighbors isn’t advised; with lots of anti-social individuals, things can quickly escalate beyond just nuisance and noise."


Don't DO IT. AND I really am being serious about this! You have the High Ground at the moment in a legal dispute. It will take time to deal with it but it will take a lot more time if you shift the ground and retaliate without the backing of the authorities ... your best retaliation IS the LAW .. that why we have Laws.

Get in touch with your local authorities who can in their turn use the police and and if needs must be break doors down and confiscate noise making equipment.

Never forget that in Civil Law you must notify this problem to any buyer of your property, as must that troublesome landlord if he sells his property and so it is in his interests that this problem be solved amicably.

Your best bet is to act through the agency of the local authorities who will have dealt with this sort of problem many times more than you have. DO it first thing on Monday.

Calm down. Act in calm. Marshall your facts. Compile evidence. Use the LAW in its agencies. You have a lot more to lose than a few itinerant Students who may not even be resident in the U.K. in a year or two.

Don't step over to the wrong side of the law in this matter.

Best Wishes,


Arnold.

[Ted White]

Aside from the legal issues, I might suggest:

Coming in from the brick wall 1-2cm and erecting a new framed wall. This frame doesn't contact the old.

Insulate this wall lightly. Don't pack.

Add double layers of heavy plasterboard.

You could consider using a damping compound in between these plasterboard layers.

Realize that sound will flank over, under and around walls and ceilings, so building one wall will only ever be just so effective. Good luck.

[August Laz]

Yeah insulation would be your best option an acoustic insulation, or cheaper just an acoustic underlay under the carpet. CMS acoustics do underlay though this is mainly to reduce impact sound. Sound transferred by structure is best solved by insulation or acoustically insulated blocks when building.
For your needs i'd advise both insulation between the floors and acoustic underlay in the carpet it could improve the situation. Good Luck

[Ted White]

Originally Posted by August Laz

Yeah insulation would be your best option an acoustic insulation... Sound transferred by structure is best solved by insulation or acoustically insulated blocks when building.

Actually the lab data tells us that decoupling is the #1 element to minimize impact noise transfer. Followed by damping, mass and finally insulation. Insulation is the most intuitive solution, but the smallest contributor.