[Raoul_Duke]

Source: http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...le-855406.html

It seems unthinkable, but for the first time in human history, ice is on course to disappear entirely from the North Pole this year.

The disappearance of the Arctic sea ice, making it possible to reach the Pole sailing in a boat through open water, would be one of the most dramatic – and worrying – examples of the impact of global warming on the planet. Scientists say the ice at 90 degrees north may well have melted away by the summer.

"From the viewpoint of science, the North Pole is just another point on the globe, but symbolically it is hugely important. There is supposed to be ice at the North Pole, not open water," said Mark Serreze of the US National Snow and Ice Data Centre in Colorado.

The good news keeps on pouring in, right??

[andykn]

Originally Posted by Raoul_Duke

Source: http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...le-855406.html



The good news keeps on pouring in, right??

Let's hope Clarkson kept his amphibious car so he can stll do the trip.

[CGizzi]

Quick lets get our drilling rigs out & get at some of that oil!!

Just kidding of course but worrying to think that big companies will be thinking the same!

[johntheexpat]

Originally Posted by andykn

Let's hope Clarkson kept his amphibious car so he can stll do the trip.

[Raoul_Duke]

Originally Posted by CGizzi

Quick lets get our drilling rigs out & get at some of that oil!!

Just kidding of course but worrying to think that big companies will be thinking the same!

Actually .. cracking idea mate!

[JohnG]

More reading ckick here

[Stephen Wilde]

http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=3229

The next few weeks will be critical. Keep up with developments at the above link.

[JohnG]

Or maybe not if you don't believe the hype

[Corey USA]

which brings up the methane feedback loop from permafrost thawing. If we do loose this ice the time line is moved ahead 50 years or more.

I was also thinking if the ocean current stops wouldn't the deeper water get colder from lack of circulation? Like a quarry lake which can be freezing cold only 3-5 ft down? cold enough to cause involuntary muscle cramps. This cold be a good thing for the methane in the ocean its self.

[splatz]

I bet there won't be many stories about the north pole not being ice free this summer to balance the stories we were reading before the summer.

I have only just got back from a business trip to the US and things still looked pretty frozen up in the arctic . . .

I would like to think some of the news editors will accept they have egg on their faces but I doubt it.

[Miyazaki]

Originally Posted by splatz

I bet there won't be many stories about the north pole not being ice free this summer to balance the stories we were reading before the summer.

I have only just got back from a business trip to the US and things still looked pretty frozen up in the arctic . . .

I would like to think some of the news editors will accept they have egg on their faces but I doubt it.

Funny that someone who takes lots of business flights chooses not to believe in global warming.

[The Dude]

Originally Posted by Games Guru

Funny that someone who takes lots of business flights chooses not to believe in global warming.

And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto Him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto Him,
"Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the Law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest Thou"?

Jesus stooped down, and with His finger wrote on the ground, as though He heard them not. So when they continued asking Him, He lifted up Himself, and said unto them,
"He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her".

And again He stooped down, and wrote on the ground. And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
When Jesus had lifted up Himself, and saw none but the woman, He said unto her,

"Woman, where are those thine accusers? Hath no man condemned thee?"
She said, "No man, Lord."
And Jesus said unto her, "Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more."

[Miyazaki]

Originally Posted by The Dude

And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto Him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto Him,
"Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the Law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest Thou"?

Jesus stooped down, and with His finger wrote on the ground, as though He heard them not. So when they continued asking Him, He lifted up Himself, and said unto them,
"He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her".

And again He stooped down, and wrote on the ground. And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
When Jesus had lifted up Himself, and saw none but the woman, He said unto her,

"Woman, where are those thine accusers? Hath no man condemned thee?"
She said, "No man, Lord."
And Jesus said unto her, "Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more."

Ducking hell. On the crack that early in the evening?

[splatz]

Originally Posted by Games Guru

Funny that someone who takes lots of business flights chooses not to believe in global warming.

I never said I take lots of business flights to the US - I have only taken one flight in 5 years. And I never said I don't believe in global warming.

[The Dude]

Originally Posted by splatz

I never said I take lots of business flights to the US - I have only taken one flight in 5 years. And I never said I don't believe in global warming.

That's just not the point though splatz.....you're a sinner, and you're evil, and you should be stoned.


Poor poor GG, so rarely eloquent, and so often wrong.

[Stephen Wilde]

OOh, look, it didn't happen.

At present it is back within normal range. We are all safe again after all!!!

Arctic sea ice continues rebound « Watts Up With That?

The top chart is the one to look at.

[andykn]

Yet again, you don't post to the actual research, just a very selective interpretation of it and so miss most of the salient points:

Arctic Sea Ice News & Analysis

this year’s annual minimum represented the second-lowest point observed in the satellite record, surpassed only by the 2007 minimum. However, if we look at the total extent of ice lost between the March maximum and the September minimum, 2008 set a new record for total ice loss over an entire melt season

Arctic sea ice and climate are behaving in ways not seen before in the satellite record—both in the rate and extent of ice loss during the spring and summer, and in the record ice growth rates and increased Arctic air heating during the fall and winter

It's not called climate change for nothing.

[Stephen Wilde]

Different sources, different emphasis. So much for 'consensus'.

We are within normal range of variability which your source does not define.

The next couple of seasons will resolve the issue but what is clear is that the hyped up reports of recent times were wholly inappropriate unless we get a bigger summer melt than in 2007 within the next couple of years. Not looking likely on current evidence.

If 2007 does prove to be the maximum melt before a change in trend will you grovel as necessary ?

I take a pragmatic evidence rather than faith based view so I do not anticipate a need for grovelling even if the planet surprises me.

[andykn]

Originally Posted by Stephen Wilde

Different sources, different emphasis. So much for 'consensus'.

The [US] National Snow and Ice Data Center (NSDIC) is a source, "whatsupwiththat.com" is not a source. Their source is here:

Total ice area from 1978 to 2007 — Arctic ROOS

Look at the second graph.

We are within normal range of variability which your source does not define.

The next couple of seasons will resolve the issue but what is clear is that the hyped up reports of recent times were wholly inappropriate unless we get a bigger summer melt than in 2007 within the next couple of years. Not looking likely on current evidence.

If 2007 does prove to be the maximum melt before a change in trend will you grovel as necessary ?

Given the long term trend in reducing sea ice, shown by both NSDIC and NOREX, it could be some time. You repeatedly seem to fail to understand that this is about decadal trends, not single year to year stuff. The "next couple of years" will resolve nothing.

I take a pragmatic evidence rather than faith based view so I do not anticipate a need for grovelling even if the planet surprises me.

Your pragmatic view is only of very limited subsets of evidence as misintepreted by others who dislike the idea that their behaviour around the use of resources may have to change.

[andykn]

Originally Posted by Haizum74

Temperatures are falling, not rising
As Christopher Booker says in his review of 2008, temperatures have been dropping in a wholly unpredicted way over the past year. Last winter, the northern hemisphere saw its greatest snow cover since 1966, which in the northern US states and Canada was dubbed the "winter from hell". This winter looks set to be even worse.

Oh dear. Climate change is about decadal trends not one year compared with the last. Last year was still one of the hottest in recent times.

The earth was hotter 1,000 years ago
Evidence from all over the world indicates that the earth was hotter 1,000 years ago than it is today. Research shows that temperatures were higher in what is known as the Mediaeval Warming period than they were in the 1990s.

Utterly irrelevant to the unprecedented rate of rise of global temperature over the last few decades. Everyone knows the earth has been hotter, it's just never warmed up so quickly and our economies cannot cope with the effects of such rises continuing over the next few decades

The earth's surface temperature is not at record levels
According to Nasa's Goddard Institute for Space Studies analysis of surface air temperature measurements, the meteorological December 2007 to November 2008 was the coolest year since 2000. Their data has also shown that the hottest decade of the 20th century was not the 1990s but the 1930s.

That's the US only. Yanks are pathetic enough to think of the US as being the planet, for a Brit to do so is sad.

Ice is not disappearing
Arctic website Crysophere Today reported that Arctic ice volume was 500,000 sq km greater than this time last year. Additionally, Antarctic sea-ice this year reached its highest level since satellite records began in 1979. Polar bear numbers are also at record levels.

Complicated patterns in deep ocean currents mean that the static nature of Antarctic ice in a warming planet was predicted in the 80s. The trend of Arctic ice is decreasing. Note the word "trend" does not mean every single year. The chart you kindly repeat from the other post about sea ice clearly shows a downward trend in Arctic sea ice.

Himalayan glaciers
A report by the UN Environment Program this year claimed that the cause of melting glaciers in the Himalayas was not global warming but the local warming effect of a vast "atmospheric brown cloud" over that region, made up of soot particles from Asia's dramatically increased burning of fossil fuels and deforestation.
Temperatures are still dropping
Nasa satellite readings on global temperatures from the University of Alabama show that August was the fourth month this year when temperatures fell below their 30-year average, ie since satellite records began. November 2008 in the USA was only the 39th warmest since records began 113 years ago.

Again, figures carefully selected from one country out of the world are nonsense. Especially when global temps are rising:

File:Instrumental Temperature Record.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia