[loz]

I know its not MMGW, but this seems an appropriate forum.

What would you say to a campaign to have people stop eating fish?

Our oceans are clearly fairing pretty badly. Pretty soon there isn't going to be any fish left. And when the ocean's food chain collapses we ourselves are going to be in for one heck of a big problem.

It seems hard to stop people over fishing. But what if we had a campaign to stop people eating fish. make it really socially unacceptable. So there would be no point in fishing.

There seems to be lots of referrences on the web to the sorry state of the oceans and fish stocks, and obviously some people realise the solution is to stop eating fish. But there never seems to have been any big awareness campaign, like MMGW for example. Why not?

It feels like it would be a really hard thing to impress on people. But if nothing is done....

I mean, do we need to eat fish? Can't we live on meat and veg? Can't we get by with just farmed fish? Shouldn't we be leaving what is left in the oceans to the fish food chain?

It seems to me there is no point having fish quotas in the north sea for example, if all people do is just eat fish imported from somewhere else - causing even more problems there. The only solution I can see is to get people to just stop eating fish.

[Corey USA]

How do you propose we get "Omega 3" from oily fish? key is not stop eating them but limit quantity. It is that "Parent saying the child has had enough candy" analogy again.

Plenty of non fish based sources of Omega 3 http://www.weightlossresources.co.uk...ing/omega3.htm

The Oceans truly are in danger though. Rises in temperature, global dimming, coastal pollution can all have a dramatic effect on the very bottom of the marine food chain - PHYTOPLANKTON.

I was doing some reading on how general supplies of zooplankton (fed by phytoplankton) have diminished in areas around the world which has in turn led to a reduction in fish and other higher species.

Once we start affecting the bottom of the food chain we are in trouble.

[loz]

Originally Posted by jackal

Plenty of non fish based sources of Omega 3 http://www.weightlossresources.co.uk...ing/omega3.htm

The Oceans truly are in danger though. Rises in temperature, global dimming, coastal pollution can all have a dramatic effect on the very bottom of the marine food chain - PHYTOPLANKTON.

which is also the course of half the worlds oxygen
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...oplankton.html

[loz]

Originally Posted by Corey USA

How do you propose we get "Omega 3" from oily fish?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega-3_fatty_acid

Six times richer than most fish oils in omega-3, Flax (aka linseed) (Linum usitatissimum) and its oil are perhaps the most widely available botanical source of omega-3.

[johntheexpat]

Nuts!

[Nimby]

Originally Posted by johntheexpat

Nuts!

I have to agree.

We stopped eating beef because of the foot and mouth and the Margaret Thatcher disease.

We stopped eating lamb because of the scrapie and the meat glowing ín the dark from Chernobyl.

We stopped eating pigs because they are more intelligent than most human beings and we don't want to encourage intensive pig farming.

Take away our fish and we're down to organic muesli and... nuts!

[loz]

Originally Posted by Nimby

I have to agree.

We stopped eating beef because of the foot and mouth and the Margaret Thatcher disease.

We stopped eating lamb because of the scrapie and the meat glowing ín the dark from Chernobyl.

We stopped eating pigs because they are more intelligent than most human beings and we don't want to encourage intensive pig farming.

Take away our fish and we're down to organic muesli and... nuts!

The analogies of beef, lamb and pigs are poor.

Do you deny our oceans are at threat, and that overfishing is the main culprit in terms of reducing fish stocks?

Are you suggesting we do nothing then?
What is your solution? Keep on eating fish? How exactly will that help?

And there was me thinking the MMGW lobby would treat this kind of subject with sympathy, not humour.

[Nimby]

Originally Posted by loz

And there was me thinking the MMGW lobby would treat this kind of subject with sympathy, not humour.

I was being serious!

And I do agree with you.

Excessive overfishing of reducing stocks has been a problem for decades. The world's politicians were just too weak to do anything about it when it was vitally necessary. They kept propping up their national fishing fleets as if they were owed a living. Nobody is. If you can't fish then you work down the mines. (whoops) Or in Tescos.

I wonder what percentage of caught fish presently goes to human consumption and how much to pet and animal foods? Or is simply wasted in other ways?

A very high percentage of catches are simply thrown over board and left to rot.

This maybe give you a brief idea: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/1898815.stm

[welshy]

The only fish most people eat in Britain is "Fish and Chips" from a chippie and the fish is wrapped in a disgusting thing called batter. I say close all chippies, let's face it it's disgusting food anyway.

[johntheexpat]

Originally Posted by welshy

..... I say close all chippies, ......

A quick visit to the motoring forum here and the SVO thread might be a good idea before you suggest this. A load of forum members would be sorely upset at this suggestion!

[johntheexpat]

Its an interesting idea (stop eating fish) with a lot of merit to it. Allow the stocks to recover somewhat, before its too late.
I remember reading a while ago a report about the Grand Banks off the coast of the states and the collapse of their cod stocks. They couldn't understand why the stocks, after years of a total ban, hadn't regenerated and the cod that were there were still relatively small. The thinking was that the over-fishing had been so bad that such a genetic advantage had been given to small cod, by being able to survive the onslaught by reason of their size. They were too small for the nets, even when adult and thus weren't caught. But all the big fish were caught so all that was left were the tiddlers. And little fish breed more little fish. The big cod are gone!

[damo_in_sale]

Hmm, and to think I complain that eco-warriors have a totalitarian tendency

I suggest that your first point of attack should be the EU's Common Fisheries Policy.

In the meantime, I like fish and so will continue to eat it.

[damo_in_sale]

Originally Posted by welshy

The only fish most people eat in Britain is "Fish and Chips" from a chippie and the fish is wrapped in a disgusting thing called batter. I say close all chippies, let's face it it's disgusting food anyway.

I suggest that you keep your nose out of other peoples business People like fish and chips, including myself on occasion. What this personal choice has to do with you I don't know.

[Nimby]

Attempting to limit the rights of others is to be deplored.

Attempting to limit the rights others to say what they think is also to be deplored.

Heads you lose. Tails you lose.

[damo_in_sale]

Originally Posted by Nimby

Attempting to limit the rights of others is to be deplored.

Attempting to limit the rights others to say what they think is also to be deplored.

Heads you lose. Tails you lose.

Yes, I quite agree. Unfortunately, we now have laws in this country which forbid people to incite others to ‘think’ thoughts which in themselves aren’t illegal. Orwell must be turning in his grave.

[loz]

Originally Posted by damo_in_sale

In the meantime, I like fish and so will continue to eat it.

So what fish will you eat when there are none left?

[loz]

Originally Posted by welshy

I say close all chippies, let's face it it's disgusting food anyway.

Well there's plenty of other things a chippy can sell besides fish.

However, a few of them might have to change their shop names

[damo_in_sale]

Originally Posted by loz

So what fish will you eat when there are none left?

Whatever is available and I like.

[loz]

Originally Posted by damo_in_sale

Whatever is available and I like.

I am sure the dolphins would like to thank you for your compasion....

[TameRacingDriver]

Will be a shame really if stocks are fished to virtual extinction... I do love a good bit of fish.

That said, ultimately perhaps the laws of supply and demand will eventually kick in. Once the supply begins to run low, the price will go up, and less people will eat it... eventually it may become so expensive that for the most part it will become an expensive luxury food, and at that point, perhaps things will then turn around.

The problem is, fishing is peoples livelihood, their own way of surviving in this world. It is all very well for us to try and convince people not to eat it, that is their choice, but the fact is, these people rely on fishing for their income, and as such, it will always be hard to restrict how many fish can be caught, because you are effectively cutting these peoples income. I am sympathetic to the plight of fish in the oceans, but I'm afraid I dont see any easy solution, except for when the laws of supply and demand eventually take hold (and they will).

In the meantime though, I will also continue to eat and enjoy fish, because as with global warming, there is sweet FA I can do to influence the outcome of it. Even if I did give up, for every person who follows suit, I can guarantee at least 10 will not...

Overfishing is not the only threat to the ocean stocks of fish.

MMGW is playing havoc with the biodiversity of coral reefs and the increased temperatures around reefs have caused large areas to be decimated in all tropical regions.

The reefs provide the basic nursery for many thousands of open water fish species and this is a great contributor to the decline of many species.

Originally Posted by jackal

Overfishing is not the only threat to the ocean stocks of fish.

MMGW is playing havoc with the biodiversity of coral reefs and the increased waters around reefs have caused large areas to be decimated in all tropical regions.

The reefs provide the basic nursery for many thousands of open water fish and this is a great contributor to the decline of many species.

It's not just GW; pollution is destroying so much in the rivers and seas. Because we can't easily see it we tend not to care as much, but it's still happening.

I don't think anyone has mentioned vegetarianism yet. Why not? The consumption of animals on the scale we do has huge knock-on effects throughout the environment, from the production of food for animals to the disposal of effluent from factory farms.

[damo_in_sale]

Originally Posted by nikyzf

It's not just GW; pollution is destroying so much in the rivers and seas. Because we can't easily see it we tend not to care as much, but it's still happening.

I don't think anyone has mentioned vegetarianism yet. Why not? The consumption of animals on the scale we do has huge knock-on effects throughout the environment, from the production of food for animals to the disposal of effluent from factory farms.

I enjoy meat. So do many others.

Originally Posted by damo_in_sale

I enjoy meat. So do many others.

Yes, obviously, but we can't always have what we want without paying a price. Let's say that your favourite meat was from an endangered animal. Would you carry on eating it until the last one was gone?

Do you care about how meat is reared?

[pjclark1]

Originally Posted by jackal

The Oceans truly are in danger though. Rises in temperature, global dimming, coastal pollution can all have a dramatic effect on the very bottom of the marine food chain - PHYTOPLANKTON.
I was doing some reading on how general supplies of zooplankton (fed by phytoplankton) have diminished in areas around the world which has in turn led to a reduction in fish and other higher species.

If the fish are all going to die from pollution anyway, we might as well eat them as fast as possible.
At least they will have had a useful existence!

Originally Posted by nikyzf

I don't think anyone has mentioned vegetarianism yet. Why not? The consumption of animals on the scale we do has huge knock-on effects throughout the environment, from the production of food for animals to the disposal of effluent from factory farms.

Good idea, lets get rid of all the sheep, pigs and cows, keep a few for the zoos (along with some fish), we don't really need them anymore either.

[Corey USA]

Originally Posted by pjclark1

If the fish are all going to die from pollution anyway, we might as well eat them as fast as possible.
At least they will have had a useful existence!



Good idea, lets get rid of all the sheep, pigs and cows, keep a few for the zoos (along with some fish), we don't really need them anymore either.

Actually if we were to correct our pollution and over consumption, our fish supply could recover.(It won't be exactly the same though) That is what Conservation is about.

[Corey USA]

Quote Loz
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackal View Post
Plenty of non fish based sources of Omega 3 http://www.weightlossresources.co.uk...ing/omega3.htm

The Oceans truly are in danger though. Rises in temperature, global dimming, coastal pollution can all have a dramatic effect on the very bottom of the marine food chain - PHYTOPLANKTON.

which is also the course of half the worlds oxygen
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...oplankton.html


Just to let you know I actually went into detail about "omega 3" from the wikepedia in another forum I spent my energy there on the issue.
"Sustainabilityforums.com" I also was pointing out the importance of diversity of source, when dealing on a planetary scale.

Response to above Quote. It isn't just the chemical pollution such as herbicides that is killing the base of the food chain. It is also the C02 we been putting out which has been acidifying our oceans on a grander scale than our chemical pollution. The supreme courts in the USA has deemed "Co2 put in to the air from our burning of oil and fossil fuels" is a pollutant.

I have also started a thread here regarding the acidification and Co2.

[Corey USA]

Originally Posted by nikyzf

Yes, obviously, but we can't always have what we want without paying a price. Let's say that your favourite meat was from an endangered animal. Would you carry on eating it until the last one was gone?

Do you care about how meat is reared?

Maybe it is a result of "disconnect" from the food source that is the problem. When someone who actually witnesses it first hand their perspectives change a bit.

I fished a lot before and had to clean my own fish, never cared for the process. So I limited the amount I ate as a result. Besides all the heavy metals were also a factor for eating only a little bit.

Yet, if I buy it at the store, I become disconnected from the processes that are involved and tend to over eat that particular source of meat or food in general.