[Mr Incredible]

Some of you may have read or even contributed to the very long thread about the Tefal QuickCup (and I was getting extremely anal about the maths of power requirements to heat up water!!), but I'd like to draw your attention to this post I made.

Just to summarise:

Tefal market their QuickCup "kettle" (not really as it only heats water not boils it) as being able to save 65% of the energy of a "normal" 3KW kettle. This is more to being able to heat exactly the correct amount of water (rather than an overfill of the kettle) and to a lower temperature (+/- 85 degrees cf 100 degrees).

Well if you have one of those "newer" type kettles with a "disc" type heating element, I have found I can fill a cup of cold water, empty it into the empty cold kettle and have boiling water in 30 seconds. (One cup full did cover the whole bottom, so check yours first).

So, do yourself a favour, save energy and just put the exact amount of water you need into your kettle. According to Tefal that should reduce your normal kettle power consumption by 65%

Originally Posted by Mr Incredible

Some of you may have read or even contributed to the very long thread about the Tefal QuickCup (and I was getting extremely anal about the maths of power requirements to heat up water!!), but I'd like to draw your attention to this post I made.

Just to summarise:

Tefal market their QuickCup "kettle" (not really as it only heats water not boils it) as being able to save 65% of the energy of a "normal" 3KW kettle. This is more to being able to heat exactly the correct amount of water (rather than an overfill of the kettle) and to a lower temperature (+/- 85 degrees cf 100 degrees).

Well if you have one of those "newer" type kettles with a "disc" type heating element, I have found I can fill a cup of cold water, empty it into the empty cold kettle and have boiling water in 30 seconds. (One cup full did cover the whole bottom, so check yours first).

So, do yourself a favour, save energy and just put the exact amount of water you need into your kettle. According to Tefal that should reduce your normal kettle power consumption by 65%

The type of kettle design that is now common, the "plastic cylinder", makes it much easier than it used to be to boil smaller amounts. I wonder why it took so long for that shape to take over: surely it made the same sense with the metal type?

[Nimby]

I would worry about element overheating after said minimum quantity had been poured out leaving the kettle dry. Perhaps this is only a Marvin-like response on my part. I do know that the plastic jug kettles have an incredibly short lifespan in my own experience and this is also corroborated by others.

However successful experiments might be with small quantities of water a new kettle is only ever a few weeks away. It takes more energy to make a new kettle than it does to have a half full stainless steel kettle that lasts for decades. Or once upon a time they did.

It sounds as if the Tefal Wotsit was designed for tea-making on Everest.

[Mr Incredible]

With kettles having auto cut-off, I'm personally fine with having just a cup full covering the bottom.

You're right though about these plastic "tower" kettles. We've probably been through 4 in 6 years. I'll let you know if my CO2 footprint increases despite the reduction in energy consumption!

[robh2002]

Originally Posted by Nimby

I would worry about element overheating after said minimum quantity had been poured out leaving the kettle dry. Perhaps this is only a Marvin-like response on my part. I do know that the plastic jug kettles have an incredibly short lifespan in my own experience and this is also corroborated by others.

However successful experiments might be with small quantities of water a new kettle is only ever a few weeks away. It takes more energy to make a new kettle than it does to have a half full stainless steel kettle that lasts for decades. Or once upon a time they did.

It sounds as if the Tefal Wotsit was designed for tea-making on Everest.

I've had a plastic kettle and have been pouring a single cup of water into it, so as to boil only what I need, for....yikes...17 years! Still going strong... I also tend to turn off the kettle when I am near by when I hear it about to boil because it takes the bi-metallic strip a while to operate - saves a few seconds quite a few Joules! Sad perhaps but there we go.

Pointing out the obvious, but boiling water requires enormous amounts of energy (Cp = 4200J/kgK) - I suspect (and that is all it is) that the time required to "repay" manufacturing energetic costs would not be too long...Clearly buying something to last is the best though.
R

[Nimby]

Perhaps you have discovered the secret of extended life?

[loz]

A better idea.

Stick to cold drinks...

[Nimby]

Originally Posted by loz

A better idea.

Stick to cold drinks...

Brilliant! I'll have a pint of Bass please.

[Corey USA]

Originally Posted by robhowell

I've had a plastic kettle and have been pouring a single cup of water into it, so as to boil only what I need, for....yikes...17 years! Still going strong... I also tend to turn off the kettle when I am near by when I hear it about to boil because it takes the bi-metallic strip a while to operate - saves a few seconds quite a few Joules! Sad perhaps but there we go.

Pointing out the obvious, but boiling water requires enormous amounts of energy (Cp = 4200J/kgK) - I suspect (and that is all it is) that the time required to "repay" manufacturing energetic costs would not be too long...Clearly buying something to last is the best though.
R

It isn't just the energies it is also the fact the material is non recyclable so winds up in the dumpster. as part of sustainability forums elsewhere the life cycle is important when using non renewable resources like certain plastics.

Yes you are right about the energy to heat water. Its the quantity of water to which your heating that dictates the energy used. 1cup vs 4 cups water takes ~4 times longer thus 4 times the energy used.

So what we should be talking about is moderation. Do you really need 4 cups of coffee or can you live with one to deal with the cravings. If you can live with one you cut consumption of energy and resources by 4.

Also by making per cup you do not have to keep the heat on to keep it warm till it is used.

[Nimby]

Leave the moderation to me.

I worry at night about heating water and milk for beverages and then waiting for them to cool off.

One can buy low temperature washing powders.

Why not low temperature tea bags and instant coffee?

[Corey USA]

Water with a "powder" form of "Propel" from Gatorade. is the most effective form or resource use I been able to find. I have no idea if it is sold in the UK though. you use your own tap water. Hopefully your not in an area that you have to boil it to make it safe to consume.

[Corey USA]

Originally Posted by Nimby

Leave the moderation to me.

I worry at night about heating water and milk for beverages and then waiting for them to cool off.

One can buy low temperature washing powders.

Why not low temperature tea bags and instant coffee?

lol funny although for those who don't catch on I was referring to self control on the amount we consume. while moderation from nimby is keeping us in line

[wack]

Originally Posted by Nimby

I worry at night about heating water and milk for beverages and then waiting for them to cool off.

never was there a better case for more sex required

[Nimby]

Originally Posted by wack

never was there a better case for more sex required

Never let a few seconds enjoyment get in the way of worrying about MMGW.

[Mr Incredible]

Originally Posted by Nimby

Never let a few seconds enjoyment get in the way of worrying about MMGW.

Particularly when you do the worrying on your own.

[Nimby]

I can see this discussion hitting the cutting room floor.

[Mr Incredible]

Better that than the ceiling.

[TylerDurden]

We have a visitor at the moment, this morning she asked if she could make herself a cup of tea, of course says I. A few mins later I go into the kitchen to find she filled the whole kettle just to make a single cup of tea.

[Mr Incredible]

Tut!

Initially I used a cup and filled it up and put it in the kettle to see where the water level came up to. But filling up at the tap was difficult to see. I know its not exact, but we have a properly plumbed in water filter and the outlet provides a nice steady flow. As there are now just remnants of water in the kettle, it gets emptied and I count a number of seconds for the fill. Works a treat!

[blackrod]

Originally Posted by Nimby

Leave the moderation to me.

I worry at night about heating water and milk for beverages and then waiting for them to cool off.

One can buy low temperature washing powders.

Why not low temperature tea bags and instant coffee?

Tea MUST be brewed using boiling water for a proper cuppa, no amount of MMGW is going to make me change my method of making the perfect brew! As for instant coffee, the water doesn't need to be anywhere close to boiling anyway.

[Nimby]

Originally Posted by blackrod

Tea MUST be brewed using boiling water for a proper cuppa, no amount of MMGW is going to make me change my method of making the perfect brew! As for instant coffee, the water doesn't need to be anywhere close to boiling anyway.

Perhaps you should start practicing your tea making on a very small bonfire in the back garden? Electricity may be far too expensive in the future to waste on mere beverages. Electricity will probably be reserved for some pointless task by dictatorial politicians. Or even by local warlords if things get screwed up completely.

Hang on though... you may not be able to afford tea on the black market once middle class China and India consume their entire production. Perhaps they will drink instant coffee? But who will pick the tea? Impoverished Russian foreign workers escaping the abject misery of Putin's long shadow?

Do not assume that the happy status quo will continue as reserves are increasingly fought over. Our present political systems are by no means robust enough to survive climate change and resource depletion combined.

America will be probably become a 3rd world country within a relatively short time span. Or a ruthless dictatorship destroying all around it in a desperate bid to maintain itself as an all-corrupting world power.

Storm in a teacup? You aint seen nothin' yet.

[blackrod]

Interesting reply Nimby but you have lost me. There is no way all that is going to happen in my lifetime, never mind Putin's!

[Nimby]

Really? Do you recognise the world today as seen by any past generation?

Did we recognise mass air transport foreign holidays as a possibility? The Internet? Office workers sitting in front of computer screens? Supermarkets? Mass car ownership? The death of the motorcycle industry? The death of the uniquely different shopping high street? Chipboard and MDF? TV and the Media? China rising from the ashes of communist corruption? The loss of authority by our elders and betters? Spaceflight? The end of steam power? The end of village life for locals often with hundreds of years of family habitation? Marinas full of white plastic toys? The fall of the Iron Curtain and Eastern European workers flooding through the broken dam. The list is endless.

There are billions of people still alive today who could never have predicted these changes. Most of the changes which were predicted never came to reality. One can never be sure what lies just around the corner.

[blackrod]

You make a pursuasive argument Nimby, didn't really think of it like that. Not too sure if everything will be quite so doom and gloom as your first reply but I can imagine significant changes to the world as we currently know it in the next 20 years.

[Nimby]

You are an optimist. By my standards the world is a much less interesting place than in my youth. The toys we now have available have made many of us mere spectators in comparison with my younger days. We did things and made lots of things. Lots of very different things. Each according to his or her ability. Now we watch other people doing things. That is a massive behavioral change on its own. The loss of handcraft skills is impossible to imagine if you never experienced them. Specialisation was once a mark of working pride. It placed one in the hierarchy of worthwhile activity. Now we watch short cartoons of other people doing things on TV screens. The museums are empty of the things which finely honed skills and pride in manufacture produced. To be replaced with interactive TV screens showing nothing of any real consequence. The techy toys are great fun but many are simply miniaturisation of existing objects. Many of todays toys are only necessary because of the technology that spawned them.

Freedom of speech and women's continuing fight for equality are major improvements on the past. The former could still be undermined by the carefully orchestrated panic attacks over terrorism and the monopolistic and corrupt Internet giants.

America will implode quickly now. It is riddled with untreatable levels of uninsured ill-health, drugs abuse, crime, corruption, spiralling expenditure on defense, unsupportably low levels of taxation, massive inequality, a failing education system and terminal internal population changes. Take away their cheap fuel. Add major electrical grid breakdown and you have a recipe for anarchy. It will be ugly.

[wavefront]

Originally Posted by TylerDurden

We have a visitor at the moment, this morning she asked if she could make herself a cup of tea, of course says I. A few mins later I go into the kitchen to find she filled the whole kettle just to make a single cup of tea.

I've experienced the same, they said it was because there was a lot of people in their house so then theres hot water for the next person but that didn't really sound that sensible.

At work on the other hand i'll usually put about 3 cups in as theres a very good chance someone will turn up wanting a cuppa while you are still making yours.

[MikeTV]

Originally Posted by blackrod

Tea MUST be brewed using boiling water for a proper cuppa, no amount of MMGW is going to make me change my method of making the perfect brew! As for instant coffee, the water doesn't need to be anywhere close to boiling anyway.

Call me anal, if you like, but that's not quite true. The water temperature should be lower than boiling point - otherwise you stew it. In practise, it makes little difference, because the mug will cool the water on contact. I am not sure of the exact optimum temperature. But it must be hot "enough", which is why it can be worthwhile warming the pot first. If anyone needs more tea making tips, just let me know.

[Mr Incredible]

One would expect 300 years of making teas would make Twinings an expert in the art of tea making. Acoording to them, the way to making the perfect cup of tea specifically states:

"Water should always be freshly boiled and boiling when added to tea."


And from http://www.soci.org/SCI/groups/foc/2...ml/gs3311f.jsp

"Tea contains a number of volatile flavours which are lost if the tea is allowed to stew. Stewing also brings out the flavour of the tannins, which make the cup of tea rather bitter. Therefore ideally, boiling water and a warm teapot, will bring out the flavour in most Indian teas, and allowing it to brew or infuse gives a good flavour. Chinese teas tend to be more delicately flavoured and their chemical composition makes hot rather than boiling water better."

Just make my PG Tips tea bag in a mug and I'm happy!

[wack]

Can I ask a question, it may have been disproved, a year or so ago I heard a scientist on the radio asking this question, if global warming is a fact why have satellites which have been monitoring the temperature of the earth for the past 30 years not picked up this rise, according to the data he had at the time global sea temperatures hadn't really changed.

Call me a cynic but I believe this global warming theory has been created by big business to get more money out of us, it may or may not exist but while they're selling us new kettles, new energy efficient cars, double glazing etc etc they're quite happy to keep us thinking we can make a difference when in fact global temperatures have changed reguarly for millions of years before we were even here

[MikeTV]

Originally Posted by wack

Can I ask a question, it may have been disproved, a year or so ago I heard a scientist on the radio asking this question, if global warming is a fact why have satellites which have been monitoring the temperature of the earth for the past 30 years not picked up this rise, according to the data he had at the time global sea temperatures hadn't really changed.

Actually, I think that's bogus, I'm afraid. Here is the mean temperature as per "Smith et al" from the NOAA website.

"Global warming is now 0.6°C in the past three decades and 0.8°C in the past century. It is no longer correct to say that "most global warming occurred before 1940". More specifically, there was slow global warming, with large fluctuations, over the century up to 1975 and subsequent rapid warming of almost 0.2°C per decade." - http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/2005/