[andykn]

As well as getting all their scientists to back the notion of MMGW they're now arguing over the Arctic.

I was just watching a piece on Newsnight about the Russian sub that has planted a flag on the seabed at the North Pole.

They're trying to make us think that the polar ice is retreating so oil and gas exploration is becoming viable.

The US and Canada, not to be outdone, are now arguing about the Northwest Passage, traditonally iced up too much to be of much use, much of the time. They're pretending that the supposed retreat of the polar ice is making it a viable seaway.

I don't see why they bother - they can and have taxed us on Pollution grounds before MMGW was around. But why else would they go to all this effort...

[Synchro]

Global warming was invented by government employed, undercover greenies to force us to believe the world is getting warmer, in an attempt then tell us that the only way we can stop it is by living like a cave man, but with stealth cave man tax.

Originally Posted by andykn

As well as getting all their scientists to back the notion of MMGW they're now arguing over the Arctic.

Very strange post by you, normally you are pro MMGW but this topic you have created seems to be the opposite, are you changing sides.

[andykn]

Originally Posted by Manhattan Mike

Very strange post by you, normally you are pro MMGW but this topic you have created seems to be the opposite, are you changing sides.

Sorry, Mike. Its irony.

I don't actually think they'd invent rows about continental shelves in the Arctic and who Polices the Northwest passage just so they can increase taxes. If for no other reason that pollution is quite bad even without MMGW in the equation.

As the saying goes, you couldn't make it up.

[The Dude]

Sorry Andy, but that wasn't even slightly ironic.

It was just spam.

[Stephen Wilde]

Interesting that a reduction in Arctic ice could reduce global transport costs by opening a Northwest Passage and could help gain time in the face of resource depletion by making huge fuel reserves available.

A benefit from global warming that could buy us enough time to tackle the global population issue and thereby save not destroy the planet and humanity.

If we can get past 2050 or so without a global disaster the UN thinks total global population should start to decline naturally.

So, AGW saves the world ? Not guaranteed but a plausible scenario.

Originally Posted by andykn

Sorry, Mike. Its irony.

I thought as much but had to check, and there was me thinking you were starting to see through all these MMGW scams , nevermind there is always tomorrow for you to see the light

[andykn]

Originally Posted by The Dude

Sorry Andy, but that wasn't even slightly ironic.

It was just spam.

Would you care to explain why pointing out another effect of MMGW is spam?

[johntheexpat]

Originally Posted by Manhattan Mike

........ nevermind there is always tomorrow for you to see the light

so long as it is a highly efficient, long life LED light

Originally Posted by johntheexpat

so long as it is a highly efficient, long life LED light

What is a highly efficient light is this one that always works when you want it to or is it some kind of GW savour, never heard of this term before.

[andykn]

Originally Posted by Manhattan Mike

What is a highly efficient light is this one that always works when you want it to or is it some kind of GW savour, never heard of this term before.

Typically a traditional ('incadescent' or 'filament') light bulb that consumes 100 watts of electrical power (you've paid for) will emit only 5% (5 watts) of that as light and 95% as heat. So its only 5% efficient for producing light.

Energy saving bulbs produce the same amount of light but consume a lot less electrical power (saving you money). A 23 watt Compact Flourescent lamp (CFL) will emit a bit more light than a 100 watt tradional bulb.

[johntheexpat]

Originally Posted by andykn

Typically a traditional ('incadescent' or 'filament') light bulb that consumes 100 watts of electrical power (you've paid for) will emit only 5% (5 watts) of that as light and 95% as heat. So its only 5% efficient for producing light.

Energy saving bulbs produce the same amount of light but consume a lot less electrical power (saving you money). A 23 watt Compact Flourescent lamp (CFL) will emit a bit more light than a 100 watt tradional bulb.

If MM really doesn't know about inefficiencies in traditional lights, then there is really no point in responding to him. My belief is he's t-ing, otherwise, if he insists he really doesn't know, then I should refer you to the phrase which got poor njp suspended, because it describes him nicely.
I just wish he would stop playing his stupid games.

Unless he was trying to be humourous, in which case he failed.

[andykn]

I was reading the story about the tourists swamped by a bit of ice falling off a glacier (not a sign of MMGW) and wondering.

Is this a symptom of rising affluence that we now have tourists near the Arctic Circle or another sign of MMGW (in other words it just wasn't possible before)?

Or do world governments now subsidise the trips so they can con us into thinking that MMGW exists. Even though they don't need to because they could tax us anyway on pollution grounds without MMGW.

[johntheexpat]

Originally Posted by andykn

I was reading the story about the tourists swamped by a bit of ice falling off a glacier (not a sign of MMGW) and wondering.

Is this a symptom of rising affluence that we now have tourists near the Arctic Circle or another sign of MMGW (in other words it just wasn't possible before)?

Or do world governments now subsidise the trips so they can con us into thinking that MMGW exists. Even though they don't need to because they could tax us anyway on pollution grounds without MMGW.

My initial thoughts were Gaia. The earth getting its revenge, by collapsing an ice shelf on the people who caused it to collapse

[andykn]

Originally Posted by johntheexpat

If MM really doesn't know about inefficiencies in traditional lights, then there is really no point in responding to him. My belief is he's t-ing, otherwise, if he insists he really doesn't know, then I should refer you to the phrase which got poor njp suspended, because it describes him nicely.
I just wish he would stop playing his stupid games.

Unless he was trying to be humourous, in which case he failed.

To be fair, we're not born knowing that sort of thing. I remember being surprised at how inefficient lights were although I suppose I was about 7 at the time.

I've been using the energy savers for nearly 15 years now, just to save money. I presume MM hasn't heard about them otherwise he'd use them too - there can't be many people on these forums who wouldn't like a little more money to pay for an A/V upgrade of some sort.

Originally Posted by andykn

Typically a traditional ('incadescent' or 'filament') light bulb that consumes 100 watts of electrical power (you've paid for) will emit only 5% (5 watts) of that as light and 95% as heat. So its only 5% efficient for producing light.

Energy saving bulbs produce the same amount of light but consume a lot less electrical power (saving you money). A 23 watt Compact Flourescent lamp (CFL) will emit a bit more light than a 100 watt tradional bulb.

Thanks for the info. and a bit more constructive then the post below from
johntheexpat.

Originally Posted by johntheexpat

If MM really doesn't know about inefficiencies in traditional lights, then there is really no point in responding to him. My belief is he's t-ing, otherwise, if he insists he really doesn't know, then I should refer you to the phrase which got poor njp suspended, because it describes him nicely.
I just wish he would stop playing his stupid games.

Unless he was trying to be humourous, in which case he failed.

I did not know and he did respond, you keep writing these trolling replys just to cause trouble but carry on and abuse me as much as you want, the mods will soon pick up on it.

Originally Posted by johntheexpat

which got poor njp suspended

poor old njp, dont make me laugh, the guy got suspended for continuing abuse, I never complained but sooner or later a mod was going to see it and ban him as he was abusive in virtually every post he wrote.

He made his own bed by continuing to do it, maybe when he is reinstated he will stop the abuse.

[johntheexpat]

Originally Posted by andykn

To be fair, we're not born knowing that sort of thing. I remember being surprised at how inefficient lights were although I suppose I was about 7 at the time.

I've been using the energy savers for nearly 15 years now, just to save money. I presume MM hasn't heard about them otherwise he'd use them too - there can't be many people on these forums who wouldn't like a little more money to pay for an A/V upgrade of some sort.

The problem is that this is a forum titled Combating Man made global warming which has several threads on efficient lighting and at least a couple on LED's. MM is an active member of the discussion group yet claims to know nothing about them. I can only assume that he cherrypicks his topics with a view` to finding those threads where he can have fun with his 'it's all cobblers' stance. I would love to see him post something positive, but continually posting on a forum with which he fervently disagrees, a positive post is not going to happen. It just wears me done to have him continually knocking things and never being positive.

And unless he lives in rented accommodation and never has to change a lightbulb, he must be aware that it is now much easier to buy energy efficient lights than incandescent ones. And it has also been discussed on these forums that the end of inefficient incandescent lights is on the government agenda, so I really find his 'what are they?' line somewhat, how can I put this nicely, 'detached from reality'

Originally Posted by johntheexpat

I would love to see him post something positive

I do write loads positive, its not positive in your eyes because you dont agree with it.

Originally Posted by johntheexpat

And unless he lives in rented accommodation and never has to change a lightbulb

I have only had to change a few lightbulbs in my house here in the UK and just got a pack from the local store for about a UK pound. I would not know a global warming friendly lightbulb if it come up and hit me in the face. Never seen them in NYC either but maybe you can buy them but never seen them in manhattan but will ask people when I fly back if they know what they are but doubt anyone will. Most dont even know what a global warming footprint is so doubt they will know about GW lightbulbs.

[johntheexpat]

Low energy bulbs, by ad47uk
Those pesky Lidl LED's by me
Philips CF lights at John Lewis

all on the front page of this forum currently. No real excuse for not knowing how to save money.

[andykn]

Originally Posted by Manhattan Mike

Most dont even know what a global warming footprint is so doubt they will know about GW lightbulbs.

I asked a couple of Texans a couple of days ago and they purported to be "very worried " by MMGW. I will admit they were 16 but does this means Texans know and care more about MMGW than New Yorkers?

Originally Posted by andykn

I asked a couple of Texans a couple of days ago and they purported to be "very worried " by MMGW. I will admit they were 16 but does this means Texans know and care more about MMGW than New Yorkers?

Different sort of life, you cant compare texans to New Yorkers. You only have to see Coreys views compared to mine. Some people are out on the ranch all day with no other worries in the world, in NY you dont get time to worry about things like GW. What you have to understand about the US is the way peoples lives differ depending on what state they live in. People from TX are totally different from NY and have different priorities, its not like here in the UK where to some extent you are all in the same bucket.

We are not exposed to GW stuff in the city and not many NY'ers would even know what the initials MMGW stand for, I sure didn't until I visited this forum.

Originally Posted by johntheexpat

Low energy bulbs, by ad47uk
Those pesky Lidl LED's by me
Philips CF lights at John Lewis

all on the front page of this forum currently. No real excuse for not knowing how to save money.

Its not money saving, I can pick up a pack of 4 bulbs for one UK pound, cant get cheaper then that.

[Corey USA]

Originally Posted by andykn

As well as getting all their scientists to back the notion of MMGW they're now arguing over the Arctic.

I was just watching a piece on Newsnight about the Russian sub that has planted a flag on the seabed at the North Pole.

They're trying to make us think that the polar ice is retreating so oil and gas exploration is becoming viable.

The US and Canada, not to be outdone, are now arguing about the Northwest Passage, traditonally iced up too much to be of much use, much of the time. They're pretending that the supposed retreat of the polar ice is making it a viable seaway.

I don't see why they bother - they can and have taxed us on Pollution grounds before MMGW was around. But why else would they go to all this effort...

Reading this I am totally lost about what this has to do with the title. could you please clarify... and how does the info you provided here connect with the title.

Or was this post edited. not by you.

[Corey USA]

Originally Posted by The Dude

Sorry Andy, but that wasn't even slightly ironic.

It was just spam.

What spam? Or was it removed? As of 8-10-07 2:16pm central USA Everything before your post does not indicate spam in anyway.

[Zone]

Originally Posted by Manhattan Mike

Its not money saving, I can pick up a pack of 4 bulbs for one UK pound, cant get cheaper then that.

They use less energy MM hence = less $£

[Corey USA]

Originally Posted by Manhattan Mike

Different sort of life, you cant compare texans to New Yorkers. You only have to see Coreys views compared to mine. Some people are out on the ranch all day with no other worries in the world, in NY you dont get time to worry about things like GW. What you have to understand about the US is the way peoples lives differ depending on what state they live in. People from TX are totally different from NY and have different priorities, its not like here in the UK where to some extent you are all in the same bucket.

We are not exposed to GW stuff in the city and not many NY'ers would even know what the initials MMGW stand for, I sure didn't until I visited this forum.

Your head is in the clouds again MM in that the Texans are more aware of the changes such as drought for they are walking though the affected areas that are changing due to climate. Another reason for their being aware is that they are closer to the Equator thus more uncomfortable periods of warmer than tolerable temps..

I am getting tired of your "selective viewing" to make a false point. I am not attacking you as a person I have a problem with your comments. So don't you dare accuse me of abuse as NJP.

[Corey USA]

Originally Posted by Manhattan Mike

I did not know and he did respond, you keep writing these trolling replys just to cause trouble but carry on and abuse me as much as you want, the mods will soon pick up on it.



poor old njp, dont make me laugh, the guy got suspended for continuing abuse, I never complained but sooner or later a mod was going to see it and ban him as he was abusive in virtually every post he wrote.

He made his own bed by continuing to do it, maybe when he is reinstated he will stop the abuse.

Mike Knock it off. Your American Like me you know how to work the system of free speech. You are not a victim of NJP. NJP was having a problem with the way your posting. Your writing indicates your intelligent yet the content of the posts indicate your playing dumb. To justify not having to back up any claims your making with no evidence to help us see your point. Many of the posts you provided were intentionally egging NJP or others in that NJP was keeping us in line about using facts to help keep this sub forum on track in efforts to combat man made climate change and other closely related issues.

I do protest NJP ban especially IF there was no effort to PM him to ask him to tone it down. I see why NJP was getting mad with you and frankly your getting on my nerve as well which is not easy to do.

I would most certainly view you a victim if it wasn't for the egging. or t-ing


Since you are using post in a ignorant layout without backing it up , and then turn around and accuse others of abuse when they are insisting you back up your claims (which takes some work) why should we the ones that work at backing our views take you with the same level of credences as the rest of the ones that work at it?

this is one of the other reason NJP was having a problem as well, in that new comers gave you the same weight as the ones working hard at it trying to provide relevant facts to counter your opinions stated as facts.

If you try to claim that this makes no sense to you your lying. And I won't waste my time responding to you.

This is a critique not abuse.

PS you want to talk about abuse open Another thread and I will confront you about True abuse. Which I been On the receiving end most of my life and it makes me sick listening to you bragging about NJP.
assumed abuse.

Does anyone else have any idea what Corey is going on about in the post above.

The feeling I get from his post is he thinks its fine to abuse anyone who dont agree with njp's views and who also dont believe in MMGW.

Corey.. There is no "assume abuse" by njp, its factual abuse present in around 60 posts and the mods obviously thought his constant onslaught for the past few weeks had gone to far.

Originally Posted by Corey USA

Your head is in the clouds again MM in that the Texans are more aware of the changes such as drought for they are walking though the affected areas that are changing due to climate. Another reason for their being aware is that they are closer to the Equator thus more uncomfortable periods of warmer than tolerable temps..

Texas has had drough for as long as I can remember, Have you ever been to NYC in the summer, well let me tell you its very hot, most UK people who venture to NY in the summer can not believe the heat. BUT this has been like this since I have been alive, having hot weather in the summer has nothing to do with Gobal warming and having drought in the south West US states is nothing unusal either.