[Nimby]

Surely not?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6930105.stm

[andykn]

Originally Posted by Nimby

Surely not?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6930105.stm

Didn't we all go to one of those climate change conferences in Kyoto a while ago?

It doesn't mean Bush believes it, of course. His puppetmasters have realised there's money to be made out of it.

Originally Posted by andykn

Didn't we all go to one of those climate change conferences in Kyoto a while ago?

It doesn't mean Bush believes it, of course. His puppetmasters have realised there's money to be made out of it.

Bush does not believe it at all, its a keep face act and to show others America are trying to at least take it seriously. There is not much to take seriously at present so dont expect the US to start taking any action. Bush is also trying to convience China to do something so America can stay ahead of them.

The general feeling in the states are that glore and Arnine are a pair of clowns.

And whats this burning bush thing, I suppose its another dig at my great nation.

[Corey USA]

Mike do you have any Idea why Bush pulled out of Keyoto in the first place?

He wasn't against cutting greenhouse gases he was against the fact China and India were left out, In that he thought it gave the USA an unfair economic disadvantage. The new agreement will most likely Include all nations that want to be economic super powers. He stalled taking action in that they were still somewhat unsure how severely the climate change would actually effect our economy in a negative manor.

Cutting Greenhouse gases, has now become the "Cheaper route" in regards to money.

They also have families too you know. They may be greedy but it is hard to override instinct when family is concerned.

Side track to make a point of family bond by instinct.
This is one reason military prefer people who have no family for black ops and such, in that the instinct to be with or protect family is so strong.
Stuart has also demonstrated that instinctual behavior in making this sub forum as well.

[damo_in_sale]

Originally Posted by Corey USA

Mike do you have any Idea why Bush pulled out of Keyoto in the first place?

He wasn't against cutting greenhouse gases he was against the fact China and India were left out

A very sensible stance, as far as I am concerned.

[Nimby]

As a "born again" cynic I believe "Burning" Bush used China and India as a smokescreen to avoid doing anything at home.

He knew that raising fuel and energy prices would be he kiss of death at the next election. The American public won't accept fairly matched global pricing.
This means the US has continued to unfairly support its business sector because energy costs are always a factor.

The constant and deliberate attacks on climate science points to my interpretation rather than any serious attempt to "balance the books".

He is doing so badly in Iraq that America has lost its last remaining friends worldwide. Any sympathy for the twin towers has long since been lost to Guantanamo Bay and illegal treatment of suspects. People are sick to death of their support of Israel. Which is causing endless resentment amongst the Arab nations and fueling extremism worldwide.

Any further loss of confidence in the US might adversely affect its global trading position just as China begins to challenge the US.

Bush has nothing left but to clean up his act. To be seen as proactive on climate change is just another ploy by his puppet masters. Reluctantly accepting climate change by the back door would be unacceptable to their national pride. When you've lost the war of words further skirmishes are pointless. That would just look like spiteful sniping by the angry loser.

[andykn]

Originally Posted by Manhattan Mike

And whats this burning bush thing, I suppose its another dig at my great nation.

Its a dig at the man who ignores his own scientists and continues to perpatuate a system of burning oil that the US experts say will bring about climate change.

A change that will almost certainly carry a far higher economic cost to the US to combat than to prevent.

[Steve.J.Davies]

The US economy is entirely oil dependent . . .

Originally Posted by andykn

Its a dig at the man who ignores his own scientists and continues to perpatuate a system of burning oil that the US experts say will bring about climate change.

But maybe he is listening to his scientists that dont actually believe in climate change and there are many here who do not.

[andykn]

Originally Posted by Manhattan Mike

But maybe he is listening to his scientists that dont actually believe in climate change and there are many here who do not.

But the majority of his scientists do believe in MMGW. Why would he listen to a minority? And which one of the many conflicting minorities is he listening to?

Originally Posted by andykn

But the majority of his scientists do believe in MMGW. Why would he listen to a minority? And which one of the many conflicting minorities is he listening to?

Well I need to see another list from you, all of Bush's Scientists and their comments, if you cant show me that then you can not prove who is the majority and minority, but my gut felling is 50/50.

[njp]

Originally Posted by Manhattan Mike

Well I need to see another list from you, all of Bush's Scientists and their comments, if you cant show me that then you can not prove who is the majority and minority, but my gut felling is 50/50.

Your "gut feeling" is also responsible for your belief that the existence of Arctic sea ice in April proves that global warming isn't happening. This shows that your "gut feeling" is not to be trusted as a substitute for rational thought.

In the real world, scientists publish papers, and analysis of these confirms that an overwhelming consensus exists.

In the real world, scientists belong to professional bodies, all of whom (with the present exception of the AAPG, whose position is likely to change soon) endorse the view that global warming is happening and is due in large measure to human activities.

[andykn]

Originally Posted by Manhattan Mike

Well I need to see another list from you, all of Bush's Scientists and their comments, if you cant show me that then you can not prove who is the majority and minority, but my gut felling is 50/50.

I'm not sufficiently familiar with the working of the US's presidential system to be able to identify exactly what you mean by "Bush's Scientists". If you are talking about the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy their position is quoted:

"Climate research conducted over the past several years indicates that most of the global warming experienced in the past few decades is very likely due to the observed increase in greenhouse gas concentrations from human activities. Research also indicates that the human influence on the climate system is expected to increase"

In their "Preview of OUR CHANGING PLANET The U.S. Climate Change Science Program for Fiscal Year 2008; A Report by the Climate Change Science Program and the Subcommittee on Global Change Research".

So that all of Bush's scientists that I can find and the body representing all the US' scientists, the National Academty of Sciences as posted by njp in another post:

http://nationalacademies.org/onpi/06072005.pdf

[Corey USA]

Speaking of bush and oil I just saw a new movie on DVD "crude awakening"
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0776794/

Actually I don't need to see it in that I know it is here already.

[TimeLord]

Originally Posted by Manhattan Mike

But maybe he is listening to his scientists that dont actually believe in climate change and there are many here who do not.

i tend to agree with mike here, being in a minority, or "listenig" to a minority dont make it wrong. This whole thread is just a stereo typical bash bush thread.

the usual war on iraq is mentioned, guantanemo bay etc etc.

not every one in the uk is anti bush, the anti brigade is just more vocal.

it stands to reason, when somthing you disagree with raises its head, your inclined to raise objections.

its all very well to quote scientist after scientist, but science isnt always on the ball. unfortunatley this subject is gonna drone on for many years.

what really eats away at me is that the solution is always a tax solution and until the polititians address this, they will never have universal support.

bins emptied twice weekly, road chargeing tolls, fuel levy, fines for puting the wrong stuff in bins,all in the name of saving the planet, swelling government coffers is just a nice side effect is it? even if\when we get biofuel, they will still tax our arses off on it.

address this and mayb more ppl will support "saving the planet" but dont lay everything at bushes door, its just the easy option.

i admire him for putting his ecconemy/country and jobs first, and looking for other solutions. isnt that why he was elected? to look out for the interests of his country? im sure you will say saving the planet IS in his countries interest, but i, along with many millions of people, are yet to be convinced.

[dan54]

Originally Posted by TimeLord

i tend to agree with mike here, being in a minority, or "listenig" to a minority dont make it wrong. This whole thread is just a stereo typical bash bush thread.

the usual war on iraq is mentioned, guantanemo bay etc etc.

not every one in the uk is anti bush, the anti brigade is just more vocal.

it stands to reason, when somthing you disagree with raises its head, your inclined to raise objections.

its all very well to quote scientist after scientist, but science isnt always on the ball. unfortunatley this subject is gonna drone on for many years.

what really eats away at me is that the solution is always a tax solution and until the polititians address this, they will never have universal support.

bins emptied twice weekly, road chargeing tolls, fuel levy, fines for puting the wrong stuff in bins,all in the name of saving the planet, swelling government coffers is just a nice side effect is it? even if\when we get biofuel, they will still tax our arses off on it.

address this and mayb more ppl will support "saving the planet" but dont lay everything at bushes door, its just the easy option.

i admire him for putting his ecconemy/country and jobs first, and looking for other solutions. isnt that why he was elected? to look out for the interests of his country? im sure you will say saving the planet IS in his countries interest, but i, along with many millions of people, are yet to be convinced.

Absolutely spot on. Now and again in amongst the usual stuff someone posts something sensible that the vast unheard majority agree with.

Originally Posted by TimeLord

i tend to agree with mike here, being in a minority, or "listenig" to a minority dont make it wrong. This whole thread is just a stereo typical bash bush thread.

the usual war on iraq is mentioned, guantanemo bay etc etc.

not every one in the uk is anti bush, the anti brigade is just more vocal.

it stands to reason, when somthing you disagree with raises its head, your inclined to raise objections.

its all very well to quote scientist after scientist, but science isnt always on the ball. unfortunatley this subject is gonna drone on for many years.

what really eats away at me is that the solution is always a tax solution and until the polititians address this, they will never have universal support.

bins emptied twice weekly, road chargeing tolls, fuel levy, fines for puting the wrong stuff in bins,all in the name of saving the planet, swelling government coffers is just a nice side effect is it? even if\when we get biofuel, they will still tax our arses off on it.

address this and mayb more ppl will support "saving the planet" but dont lay everything at bushes door, its just the easy option.

i admire him for putting his ecconemy/country and jobs first, and looking for other solutions. isnt that why he was elected? to look out for the interests of his country? im sure you will say saving the planet IS in his countries interest, but i, along with many millions of people, are yet to be convinced.

I will second that, a good post.

[Nimby]

When the emperor surrounds himself with great men he can rule the hearts and minds of the entire world.

When the emperor surrounds himself with yes men he should check his wardrobe frequently!

Who will be remembered with derision for half a generation as the worst president ever to half fill the shoes of a potentially great office? Historians will discuss in hushed tones over a beer whether he could drive a golf buggy and chew gum at the same time.

Your Pinocchio has been found wanting by a world in desperate need of great leadership. He dropped the baton reaching down for an oilstained dollar in the gutter. A garbage lorry passed at that precise moment and the rest is history.

The emperor's clothes were subsequently found to be not wet. They were still safely in the wardrobe. History will not protect the weak any better than Bush ever did himself.

[dan54]

Originally Posted by Nimby

When the emperor surrounds himself with great men he can rule the hearts and minds of the entire world.

When the emperor surrounds himself with yes men he should check his wardrobe frequently!

Who will be remembered with derision for half a generation as the worst president ever to half fill the shoes of a potentially great office? Historians will discuss in hushed tones over a beer whether he could drive a golf buggy and chew gum at the same time.

Your Pinocchio has been found wanting by a world in desperate need of great leadership. He dropped the baton reaching down for an oilstained dollar in the gutter. A garbage lorry passed at that precise moment and the rest is history.

The emperor's clothes were subsequently found to be not wet. They were still safely in the wardrobe. History will not protect the weak any better than Bush ever did himself.

Methinks you need to get out more.

[The Dude]

:sigh



more political trolling in the climate change forum.

[TimeLord]

Originally Posted by Nimby

When the emperor surrounds himself with great men he can rule the hearts and minds of the entire world.

When the emperor surrounds himself with yes men he should check his wardrobe frequently!

Who will be remembered with derision for half a generation as the worst president ever to half fill the shoes of a potentially great office? Historians will discuss in hushed tones over a beer whether he could drive a golf buggy and chew gum at the same time.

Your Pinocchio has been found wanting by a world in desperate need of great leadership. He dropped the baton reaching down for an oilstained dollar in the gutter. A garbage lorry passed at that precise moment and the rest is history.

The emperor's clothes were subsequently found to be not wet. They were still safely in the wardrobe. History will not protect the weak any better than Bush ever did himself.

very poetic, but lacks substance 6/10

[Nimby]

I wasn't aware that discussing Bush has anything to do with politics.

Discussing climate here with a bunch of trolls is pointless.

[Stuart Wright]

Originally Posted by Nimby

Discussing climate here with a bunch of trolls is pointless.

That's why I am starting to hand out warnings to the trolls. 2 points per warning. 10 points and your account is suspended.
This forum is for discussing how to tackle global warming.

[The Dude]

So can we all please get back to discussing combatting global warming then?


What has bush or exxon got to do with our (personal) efforts to combat climate change?

What has this thread got to do with combatting man made global warming?


IVE KNOCKED 10KWH OF MY ELECTRICITY CONSUMPTIION IN THE LAST YEAR ALONE!!!!!!


****.




Shouldn't we be discussing what we are/can be doing, rather than ranting about politicians and 'city dwellers'

[The Dude]

WHAT A JOKE THIS SITE HAS BECOME.




BYE ALL.

[dan54]

Originally Posted by The Dude

WHAT A JOKE THIS SITE HAS BECOME.




BYE ALL.

Total agreement.

Im off too.I dont wish to be associated to any site where the administrator issues warnings AFTER the fact and advocates "anyone who doesnt agree with GW deserves a smack in the mouth" (see other thread) I have no time for this kind of childishness.BYE ALL.

Originally Posted by Stuart Wright

That's why I am starting to hand out warnings to the trolls. 2 points per warning. 10 points and your account is suspended.
This forum is for discussing how to tackle global warming.

Sorry Stuart I am off too, I am not going to take abuse from members and also the site owner as well.

I hope the few people who are left here enjoy their conversations.

[Stephen Wilde]

Funny old world.

Imagine if Rupert Murdoch adopted the same approach to everyone who had their letters printed in his newspapers.

This is a public forum not one for a private group of like minded individuals.

If the owner wants to control non abusive input that he personally disagrees with then it becomes a mere personal propaganda vehicle for one person's prejudices.

A case could be made for asserting that such a forum in a public access medium such as the internet should be closed down or required to state that the views of the participants are not representative of anyone but themselves.

It is critical to any discussion about dealing with global warming to take into account the level and immediacy of any threat. Leaving that out truly leaves the Emperor without clothes and the whole process pretty pointless.

[andykn]

Originally Posted by TimeLord

i tend to agree with mike here, being in a minority, or "listenig" to a minority dont make it wrong.

True, but being in lots of conflicting minorities does makes most of them wrong too, definition.

This whole thread is just a stereo typical bash bush thread.

Er, Bush supports MMGW.

its all very well to quote scientist after scientist, but science isnt always on the ball. unfortunatley this subject is gonna drone on for many years.

Very, very unfortunately.

Especially if you live in a low lying area, are old and more susceptible to dying in the heat, can't afford to air condition your house, etc.

what really eats away at me is that the solution is always a tax solution and until the polititians address this, they will never have universal support.

That's because people like you deny the evidence based facts with no rational evidence of your own. If everyone started saving themselves some money by buying energy saving light bulbs, using standby less and public transport a bit more then there'd be no need for taxes.

You bring it on yourself.

road chargeing tolls

Primarily about reducing congestion. Even if we had zero environmental impact cars we'd still need road tolls and congestion charges.

i, along with many millions of people, are yet to be convinced.

That's because you ignore the evidence and believe each other when you say that nothing's happening rather than people who have studied it for years.

[andykn]

Originally Posted by Stephen Wilde

If the owner wants to control non abusive input that he personally disagrees with then it becomes a mere personal propaganda vehicle for one person's prejudices.

Unless Stuart owns the IPCC or published the first research into MMGW then they're not 'his' prejudices.

And, by definition, seeing as they're backed by mountains of evidence published before this sub forum came into being, 'prejudices' is the wrong word too.