[johntheexpat]

http://www.lidl.fr/fr/home.nsf/pages...802.index.ar18

THIS LINK DOESN'T SHOW THE LEDs ANYMORE J
Just so you can see a piccy of them. I'll give them a try, assuming they have some in my local store and do a little review.

Quick edit, enter a code postal where requested (49150 is mine and seems to work). Then the link should work.

[njp]

That'll be the "Ampoule 18 leds" then?

Sadly no proper technical details, but I suspect these will only be suitable for replacing rather low wattage halogen versions.

[blearyeyes]

Originally Posted by johntheexpat

http://www.lidl.fr/fr/home.nsf/pages...802.index.ar18

Just so you can see a piccy of them. I'll give them a try, assuming they have some in my local store and do a little review.

Quick edit, enter a code postal where requested (49150 is mine and seems to work). Then the link should work.

What are you trying to do with the LEDs? Are you competant at using a soldering iron? If so go here:

www.emanator.demon.co.uk/bigclive/index.htm

It's a nifty wee circuit, and as Clive says, can knock spots off commercial setups costing many times the price.

[njp]

Originally Posted by blearyeyes

What are you trying to do with the LEDs?

Replace some incandescent light bulbs, I imagine. So I fail to see the relevence of a link to a colour-changing LED project.

[johntheexpat]

Its just that LEDs will presumably be the future for everyday lighting, (because of their low power consumption and longevity) and these are more or less the first that have been made available to the General Public at a reasonable price, with generally available fittings. It may well be, as njp pointed out, that they aren't very good (ie not powerful enough and/or poor light quality) but it is the first step to the future of lighting (possibly).
All that aside, I shall throw caution to the wind and at great personal expense and possibly risk to myself, I shall buy a couple, shortly after 02/Aug and report back on what I think of them.

[loz]

These are the same range of bulbs they were advertising in the UK as available last Monday.

But at the last minute, they pulled the ad from their website, and when I went in the store there was none to be found.

[njp]

Originally Posted by johntheexpat

Its just that LEDs will presumably be the future for everyday lighting (because of their low power consumption and longevity)

Yes, I think there is very little doubt about that. The lumen/watt efficiency will leave CFL behind, as Haitz's law continues to hold. The small size also make them extremely versatile, so we should see them in a wide range of lighting products.

It may well be, as njp pointed out, that they aren't very good (ie not powerful enough and/or poor light quality) but it is the first step to the future of lighting (possibly).

I haven't looked into this properly, but I suspect that these are essentially first generation products near the end of their reign, hence the low price. The lumen/watt efficiency is probably somewhat lower than CFL, but the longevity, instant full brightness, and immunity to power cycling may still make them an attractive proposition - provided they are bright enough and the colour temperature is acceptable.

I've seen products cramming 60 LEDs into a GU10 fitting. But I think future products will use just a few very high intensity, ultra efficient LEDs.

All that aside, I shall throw caution to the wind and at great personal expense and possibly risk to myself, I shall buy a couple, shortly after 02/Aug and report back on what I think of them.

I look forward to your report!

[Nimby]

I have spent a lifetime watching people dazzle themselves with bare light bulbs.

Because the iris is forced to close, ever more light (and energy) is required to actually overcome the brightness of the lighting.

Each new bare bulb dazzles yet more and the iris closes still further.

A shade between the light source and the eye lowers the intensity requirements and therefore the energy required to provide the artificial light.

The ideal situation is a low intensity wash of light. I have seen streetlights in Denmark which look like vertical glass tubes of hazy water. They work well without the usual glare. The eye need not react to an intense source and the street is still well lit with far fewer shadows. The lights are not raised on the typically tall poles. I have no idea as to the source of the light or its energy requirements.

It may be wishful thinking to believe that the crime-prone, drunken behaviour of the UK's more intolerable inhabitants would ever allow such lighting generally.

[johntheexpat]

Originally Posted by Nimby

I have seen streetlights in Denmark which look like vertical glass tubes of hazy water. They work well without the usual glare. The eye need not react to an intense source and the street is still well lit with far fewer shadows. The lights are not raised on the typically tall poles. I have no idea as to the source of the light or its energy requirements.

It may be wishful thinking to believe that the crime-prone, drunken behaviour of the UK's more intolerable inhabitants would ever allow such lighting generally.

I seem to recall from a long time ago, possibly on a Tomorrows World or similar, a demonstration with people standing under high voltage power cables, holding strip lights upwards. The strip lights lit up, slightly, (but the science behind it is lost in the inner recesses of the mind).
If that really did work, rather than being an April Fool or similar, it may provide the answer to your street lights. Have a row of strip lights, gently diffusing light and relatively vandal proof because even the most gormless idiot would think twice about messing with 250KV. Or he would not be a problem again.

[njp]

That really does work, just as rubbing a flourescent tube (dead or alive, it doesn't matter) on your sleeve will cause it to glow in a darkened room. But just as with that demonstration, the amount of light produced will be very small, and not useful for street lighting.

I'm not sure about Nimby's street lights - some sort of electroluminescent material, perhaps?

[Nimby]

The lights I mentioned seem to be lit from the bottom of the liquid-filled, glass tube which is about 4-5" in diameter (from memory) and about 18-24" tall. (100-125mm Ø x 50-60cm high)

The top and bottom of the glass tube are enclosed in posh, brushed, stainless steel.

Googling with suitable search terms did not produce anything useful.

I could photograph one when lit but that would involve increasing my carbon footprint merely for your entertainment.

[njp]

Originally Posted by Nimby

The lights I mentioned seem to be lit from the bottom of the liquid-filled, glass tube which is about 4-5" in diameter (from memory) and about 18-24" tall. (100-125mm Ø x 50-60cm high)

The top and bottom of the glass tube are enclosed in posh, brushed, stainless steel.

It sounds like some kind of swanky architectural lighting, rather than lighting designed for energy efficiency. Bet it looks good though.

I could photograph one when lit but that would involve increasing my carbon footprint merely for your entertainment.

Very true. How about if we all agreed to offset our pleasure in some way? I could re-read some of blearyeye's posts, for example...

[Nimby]

Originally Posted by njp

It sounds like some kind of swanky architectural lighting, rather than lighting designed for energy efficiency. Bet it looks good though.

Indeed they do!

How about if we all agreed to offset our pleasure in some way? I could re-read some of blearyeye's posts, for example...

I should pick a very grey day.

[Nimby]

Here you go:

Like this but much brighter and very white.

The tube is also plain glass rather than decorated and is self supporting.

Oh alright then. It's nothing like the one illustrated.

[Corey USA]

Here is the next generation LED coming to us in the very near future.
http://www.physorg.com/news93198212.html Not sure how this will work with large area lighting since it is a "spot light" which is severly lacking for lighting large areas.
The key about this tech. is the lumen/ wattage ratio. thus cutting the footprint consumption.

[johntheexpat]

Originally Posted by loz

These are the same range of bulbs they were advertising in the UK as available last Monday.

But at the last minute, they pulled the ad from their website, and when I went in the store there was none to be found.

The title of this thread was meant as an hommage to your original thread. I guess Lidl have supply chain problems and couldn't get stock to the UK in time for a launch last week.

Originally Posted by Nimby

I could photograph one when lit but that would involve increasing my carbon footprint merely for your entertainment.

I'll go and plant a tree somewhere. That should cover the carbon footprint for the photo and probably this whole thread, eventually.
(If you are interested, it will be a small walnut tree grown from seed, planted out in the back garden. I could supply a photo, but would then feel obliged to plant a second tree to cover the additional Carbon footprint. Then photograph that etc and this could then go on ad infinitum and I have no intention of solving GW all by myself.)

[njp]

Originally Posted by johntheexpat

The title of this thread was meant as an hommage to your original thread.

And it was a first-rate pun. Splendid work.

[Nimby]

Originally Posted by johntheexpat

The title of this thread was meant as an hommage to your original thread. I guess Lidl have supply chain problems and couldn't get stock to the UK in time for a launch last week.

This is all too typical of supermarket chains. Empty promises and no stock.

I'll go and plant a tree somewhere. That should cover the carbon footprint for the photo and probably this whole thread, eventually.
(If you are interested, it will be a small walnut tree grown from seed, planted out in the back garden. I could supply a photo, but would then feel obliged to plant a second tree to cover the additional Carbon footprint. Then photograph that etc and this could then go on ad infinitum and I have no intention of solving GW all by myself.)

Having been personally responsible for planting many hundreds of native trees on my own properties I don't think I need worry too much about my modest contribution to MMGW. There is something rather special about standing in the shade of trees which one planted by hand. Particularly if they were raised as cuttings or seeds. We have discovered that red oaks are particularly resistant to mildew. Collecting acorns from carparks is the easiest way to obtain many thousands of trees. Willows of all kinds are very reliable as cuttings and grow extremely rapidly. Poplars are much too prone to suckering and die back. Birch, Ash, Rowan, Cherry and Hazel often self-seed freely. Probably from bird droppings. Not had much luck with hornbeam. Grows into a beautiful tree but dies rapidly and unexpectedly in wet soil. Whitebeam is better.

[johntheexpat]

So, the day has arrived and I have gone and spent 10 euros on two of Lidl's finest LED bulbs.
One was a 12V GU5.MR16 power rating 1.3W
The other was an E27, 230V power rating 0.9W

Both have a 25 degree beam, 30,000 hr lifespan, UV protection and 18 LEDs
(and a symbol I don't understand- a semi circle, with a circle inside that has lines radiating at west, south and east, with a small box on north, all with a big cross through. Possibly means don't enclose in a fitting but with a power consumption of 0.9W...?)

As luck would have it, today is the sunniest day for a while, so even the cellar is not very dark. But having said that, they are quite bright with a very focused beam.
I was able to do a direct swap in the cellar, between the 12V LED and a 12V 20W halogen. The halogen was brighter overall, with a much better spread of light. Where the beam on the LED was directed was probably as well lit, and the light given off was much more natural, with a bluish tinge.

Initial impression-they work, they have quite a pleasant light, which if you are in the beam is adequate, but it may be that the are better in specialist positions than as a general lighting solution.

I'll do a better response in a week or so.

[johntheexpat]

So, having lived with them for a couple of weeks, they are not bad. Not great as a source of general lighting, they are not powerful enough and quite highly focused. I think this generation of LED's will come into their own as specialised lighting solutions. I rigged up a bedside reading lamp from one (the 12V model) and was actually quite pleased with the result. It seems to be quite a good imitation of natural light, with perhaps a hint of blue. I found it very easy to read too and being focused it didn't disturb SWMBO. The 230V was used to replace a spot on the stairs, while not as bright, it did supply enough, but more is better on places like stairs so I will change it back.
If I had to make a guess, I would say the 12V light, running at 12.6V (ie of 8 AAA batteries) was on a par with the light supplied by my 4D magilight torch.

(Not very) tech specs:

Magilight torch, 6.20V 0.73A (4.5W)
12V LED: 8 X AAA running @ 12.63V 42.1mA 9 X AAA running @ 14.10V 65.6mA
which in my book are 0.53W and 0.92W as opposed to the 1.3W it was rated on the packet, but perhaps I'm missing something.
(I didn't check the power consumption of the one plugged into the mains.)

The bedside light was running at the higher voltage, supplied by nine AAA batteries in series which if my calculations are correct, should give you about 19 hrs of light assuming 1250mAh for each battery (well that's what wikipedia reckons for an alkaline AAA)

Overall, as mentioned, I think they are more useful at the moment in specialised applications, but as a first step they are impressive. The light quality is good and the low consumption is very good. The price is currently a bit high (4.99 euros and I believe £3.99 if they ever reach the UK ) but no doubt it will come down in time.

[Corey USA]

Originally Posted by johntheexpat

So, having lived with them for a couple of weeks, they are not bad. Not great as a source of general lighting, they are not powerful enough and quite highly focused. I think this generation of LED's will come into their own as specialised lighting solutions. I rigged up a bedside reading lamp from one (the 12V model) and was actually quite pleased with the result. It seems to be quite a good imitation of natural light, with perhaps a hint of blue. I found it very easy to read too and being focused it didn't disturb SWMBO. The 230V was used to replace a spot on the stairs, while not as bright, it did supply enough, but more is better on places like stairs so I will change it back.
If I had to make a guess, I would say the 12V light, running at 12.6V (ie of 8 AAA batteries) was on a par with the light supplied by my 4D magilight torch.

(Not very) tech specs:

Magilight torch, 6.20V 0.73A (4.5W)
12V LED: 8 X AAA running @ 12.63V 42.1mA 9 X AAA running @ 14.10V 65.6mA
which in my book are 0.53W and 0.92W as opposed to the 1.3W it was rated on the packet, but perhaps I'm missing something.
(I didn't check the power consumption of the one plugged into the mains.)

The bedside light was running at the higher voltage, supplied by nine AAA batteries in series which if my calculations are correct, should give you about 19 hrs of light assuming 1250mAh for each battery (well that's what wikipedia reckons for an alkaline AAA)

Overall, as mentioned, I think they are more useful at the moment in specialised applications, but as a first step they are impressive. The light quality is good and the low consumption is very good. The price is currently a bit high (4.99 euros and I believe £3.99 if they ever reach the UK ) but no doubt it will come down in time.

Agree for now that the best application is specialized in that they need to figure out how to spread the light so it is not so focused in a spotlight pattern.

I wonder if they could use a mirror defuser like in the headlights of cars and reflect a high power lumens Led such as from the link below I provided. to create a broader light pattern to cover more surface area. This could make it better for general lighting applications.

[johntheexpat]

In another thread about cons, LED's by this lot:

http://www.ultraleds.co.uk/capsule-bulbs-c-74.html

were mentioned.

A bigger range, but I should point out, nearly 3 times the price of the Lidl bulbs. (and I suppose you can buy them now, which you can't a Lidl's, yet)

Interestingly, I did think I would buy some more, but the local Lidls seemed to sell out quite quickly over here.

[Nimby]

Will LEDs be subject to the 66% OSRAM tax?

[johntheexpat]

ha, just when you thought you were safe from LEDs!

A new toy from Lidl

Not cheap, at 18 euros, but I have bought one to play with and will give it a good run before posting a considered opinion.

As for the halogen replacement LEDs, other stores over here are now starting to supply them and the price is beginning to fall, one shop, Bricomarche, is selling a three pack for 8€90. I dont suppose this will be the last price drop, though.

18€ is a touch under £12.60 & 8.90€ about £6.25

[loz]

I wonder why they are still so expensive in the UK?

The cheapest I can find for GU10 halogens is £4.99 each at TLC.

Originally Posted by johntheexpat

ha, just when you thought you were safe from LEDs!

A new toy from Lidl

Not cheap, at 18 euros, but I have bought one to play with and will give it a good run before posting a considered opinion.

Hmm, looks interesting, I could see this used with a filter to block visible light and flood a room with IR for security purposes, anyone know if these LED's transmite IR as well as the visible spectrum? Also what is the power taken?

[njp]

Originally Posted by stratagem

Hmm, looks interesting, I could see this used with a filter to block visible light and flood a room with IR for security purposes, anyone know if these LED's transmite IR as well as the visible spectrum? Also what is the power taken?

Given how much easier and more efficient it is for LEDs to produce IR than white light, that just has to be the wrong way of solving the problem!

Originally Posted by njp

Given how much easier and more efficient it is for LEDs to produce IR than white light, that just has to be the wrong way of solving the problem!

It's not a problem finding a solution, just that this at £13 is much cheaper than an IR matrix, no doubt due solely to the potential market volume.

[loz]

Is there a LIDL close to the chunnel in France?

If so, I might have a booze and LED cruise

[johntheexpat]

Originally Posted by loz

Is there a LIDL close to the chunnel in France?

If so, I might have a booze and LED cruise

There are 3 Lidls around calais:
(1) (Central) 21 rue de Mollien, Calais. 62100.
Tel: 0033 321 -. Fax: 0033 321 -.

(2) Boulevard Curie, Calais. 62100

(3) Rue Roger Salengro
Open: Monday to Saturday 8.30am to 7.00pm.

But check their website first as their offers tend to come and go. (Always good for really cheap booze tho')

BricoMarche also have a presence, a little way out of town

A 3, Rue Jean Varlet, Bourbourg -
B Rue Notre Dame, Le Portel
C 92, Rue Notre Dame, Hazebrouck