[Nimby]

You know the fairy stories about the bloke who killed 9 at one blow? Was it nine? Anyway:

Well Denmark has broken 17 weather records in only one year. July 2006-July 2007.

Five times average rainfall in June 2007 alone despite a dry start.

Mind, you, they have only been measuring officially for 130 years so it's probably meaningless. (though the MkII Ark is coming along nicely and thankyou for asking)

Pop festivals are taking a soaking this year. There are reports that the Roskilde festival is so wet and muddy that fans are fed up and leaving early.

We went to a large annual carboot sale and it was more like Venice in a feild! No wellies and the car got stuck in a foot of liquid grass in the carpark. I had to burn my way out because nobody dared to go near the geysers of mud spraying out from the car wheels!

Go on then. Tell me the weather has nothing to do with climate change.

[mrm3]

Originally Posted by Nimby

Go on then. Tell me the weather has nothing to do with climate change.

But is it global warming...

Is it warmer?

Feels colder to me ...well wetter at least.

[blearyeyes]

Originally Posted by Nimby

You know the fairy stories about the bloke who killed 9 at one blow? Was it nine? Anyway:

Well Denmark has broken 17 weather records in only one year. July 2006-July 2007.

Five times average rainfall in June 2007 alone despite a dry start.

Mind, you, they have only been measuring officially for 130 years so it's probably meaningless. (though the MkII Ark is coming along nicely and thankyou for asking)

Pop festivals are taking a soaking this year. There are reports that the Roskilde festival is so wet and muddy that fans are fed up and leaving early.

We went to a large annual carboot sale and it was more like Venice in a feild! No wellies and the car got stuck in a foot of liquid grass in the carpark. I had to burn my way out because nobody dared to go near the geysers of mud spraying out from the car wheels!

Go on then. Tell me the weather has nothing to do with climate change.

Hmmm...seem to remember we were to get hotter drier summers because of 'climate change'. Maybe we should 'tweak' the earth to agree with our predictions. Of course there are others on this forum who will try to convince you that climate change means climate chaos - the weather is now unpredictable because of slight increases in CO2 levels. In fact two Jehovah's witnesses said exactly that to me last week. It's all god's doing you know, even the bible says so. But more seriously for the AV gurus here (Stuart Wright please take note) is the following:

environment.independent.co.uk/climate_change/article2733254.ece

This sort of alarmism will be lapped up by the greenies who will do everything in their power to convince legislators to 'act' (=ban) on these 'facts' in a bid to 'tackle climate change' (commandment 3 in the greenie bible, I think). So, love technology? Watch out!

[Nimby]

Originally Posted by mrm3

But is it global warming...

Is it warmer?

Feels colder to me ...well wetter at least.

Extra warmth = extra water vapour + energy.

More and bigger clouds = heavier rain + more energetic storms + higher wind speeds.

Make your Arks self-righting. You know it makes sense!

Ban new square buildings. Only domes and low profile, rounded forms from now on.

So make your arks round with a nice big anchor!

Publicly duck property developers using flood plains for profit!

What the heck... bung in the corrupt local councilors who passed the waterlogged developments as well.

Mass duckings! The new reality television!

Where's that copyright smiley when you need one?

[AgentCool]

The media were saying the recent rainfall in Britain was "unprecedented" until several people pointed out that it wasn't. Also, I seem to recall reading on this very forum that weather and climate aren't the same thing.

[Nimby]

Originally Posted by markwpage

The media where saying the recent rainfall in Britain was "unprecedented" until several people pointed out that it wasn't.

How's yer Danish?

http://www.dmi.dk/dmi/17_vejr-rekord...n_klimaforsker

We went to a large annual carboot sale and it was more like Venice in a feild! No wellies and the car got stuck in a foot of liquid grass in the carpark. I had to burn my way out because nobody dared to go near the geysers of mud spraying out from the car wheels!

That's why it's only sensible in these days of climate change to buy a large powerful 4 x 4.

[Nimby]

Originally Posted by stratagem

That's why it's only sensible in these days of climate change to buy a large powerful 4 x 4.

Nah, mate. I give you the new Chelsea Tractor: Brm-brm?

[AgentCool]

Well, none of the British rainfall records have been broken. The highest 24 hour total still stands at 279mm on 18th July 1955 with other records - such as the highest 5-minute total - taking place as far back as 1893. In fact the total 24-hour rainfall total in Hull where I live (which had the highest total in the country on 25th June) can be beaten by the 120-minute record which took place in Lancashire on 8th August 1967.

[njp]

Originally Posted by markwpage

Well, none of the British rainfall records have been broken.

Not true. It was the wettest June on record.

Originally Posted by njp

Not true. It was the wettest June on record.

Perhaps a dumb question but why is the UK 2007 rainfall not the same as the averaged sum of England, NI, Scotland and Wales?

Originally Posted by stratagem

Perhaps a dumb question but why is the UK 2007 rainfall not the same as the averaged sum of England, NI, Scotland and Wales?

Because you can't simply average averages. In this case, you would need to factor in the areas of the countries.

[Corey USA]

We are 5 inches of rain below normal in the Midwest USA.

The thing about climate change is that the swings of weather are going to be more violent and extreme from one to another like the snow in Africa.

Any one consider in the UK that the weird weather has been influenced by the slowing of the gulf stream? Thus it MAY get colder there while elsewhere it MAY get hotter.

The severe fluctuations are going to be the norm from this time forward. As long as we stay the path we refuse to get off things will only get worse.

Feedback loops can also effect the severity of swings as well. As I had linked to the ABC report regarding the methane and the global prediction of Climate rise.

feedback loop of the ocean becoming co2 saturated and killing of the base of the food chain will have an effect of the severe swings from normal.

Since we have added factors to the equation that were not present in the history of earth we can not really see precisely what will happen in how the weather will react to our influences. Like the cutting of the rain forests, burning of fossil fuels, land use changes. Pollution to our ocean.

Earth is trying to repair itself but we aren't really doing anything to help it are we?

I expect more records to be broken and new ones created like a hurricane in the north arctic. center of the USA to turn to desert , stuff like that.

Before you go and accuse me of being a doomsayer you need to educate yourself about the reality of our situation. These things are happening now if you would only open your eyes and mind and see for yourself.

Quite frankly I wish I was a doomsayer then things could go on as normal and I could continue to use the HDTV I had bought at Christmas. It isn't so I don't have that luxury to just go on as normal.

[Stephen Wilde]

The more severe a phenomenon the longer the time between similar occurrences.

The longer the time you record for the more likely you are to pick up on the more extreme occurrences.

We have only had records for some 150 years. We will go on recording more extreme phenomena as time passes. That is meaningless in itself.

There is a huge number of locations and a huge number of combinations of a huge number of variables and a short history of recording. Records are broken daily as a matter of routine. That is meaningless in itself.

[Nimby]

I like the cut of your Jib, Corey.

Unfortunately the short term behaviour of our respective Neros lacks feedback.

By voting your own Nero back in you have delayed environmental change for two terms rather than one.

Such selfish and blind behaviour is costing the world dear.

While greed continues to be infinitely well rewarded we haven't a hope.

The captain is drunk with power at the wheel. The law demands that he is inviolable.

The rocks threaten but not a man is brave enough to take the helm.

The US contribution to world pollution dwarfs that of other nations.

America is the key to change. While TV advertising buys corrupt leaders your ship is foundering.

The wealthy have no interest in change. Life is far too comfortable at the top. Your electoral system is broken beyond repair.

Your media is owned by vested interests. Concentrating on the celebrity system instead of the facts. Maintaining the status quo.

The emperor fiddles as naked as a baby. Exposed for his corruption of thought and deed for all to see. Except to your own electorate.

Australia has admitted it is in Iraq for oil. You have Paris Hilton.

[Stephen Wilde]

So who should one trust.

A system however flawed that has delivered mankind in previously undreamed of numbers from lives that left to nature were nasty brutal and short as a result of nature being red in tooth and claw.

Or those who see only the worst in every situation and want to dismantle all and return to year zero.

You takes your choice.

Bring back the comma!

[blearyeyes]

Originally Posted by njp

Not true. It was the wettest June on record.

Not true.

www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/weather/article2017566.ece

[Stephen Wilde]

Sorry strategem,

I'm used to legal documents which often ignore commas because of the risk of changing meanings or creating ambiguities inadvertently. I know commas are intended to prevent just such things but in practice they are counterproductive due to the time required to get them right and the scope for error they create.

[njp]

Originally Posted by blearyeyes

Not true.

www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/weather/article2017566.ece

I think I'll continue to prefer the figures from the Met Office over an unsourced and unquantified claim from a "news worker".

I'm not at all surprised to learn which one you prefer, however!

[MikeTV]

Originally Posted by Nimby

Go on then. Tell me the weather has nothing to do with climate change.

I think a lot of it has to do with La Niña, this year. But GW probably isn't helping either.

[AgentCool]

Originally Posted by blearyeyes

Not true.

www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/weather/article2017566.ece

I particularly liked the link within that link about how, without rain, we would all now be probably speaking French.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle2039648.ece

[Nimby]

Then use shorter sentences, Stephen.

Let me tell you a story:

Year zero was a top-down scare story released to the media as a terrifying legend to frighten the lower classes. Those who enjoyed the top steps of the great human pyramid remained in a stable situation. The slopes below were constantly eroded by those scrabbling for height. Trickle-down had no meaning below the top few steps where everything of value remained safely lodged. The precipitous sides of the pyramid meant that anything which actually fell from above was completely ruined on the way down. Criminals attempted the impossible slope using perilous and risky ladders but fell back further each time as they became exhausted. The sides of the pyramid were in constant flow as all the lower classes struggled to maintain their position or gain that above. Their whole lives were spent clinging onto the perilous slope constantly terrified of falling.

Those enjoying the higher echelons remained isolated. They were oblivious to the suffering of those below on the hot and dusty, gravel-laden slopes. It was so long since those above saw anyone from a lower position that they had dehumanised them into legendary beasts. Those below could not see the incredible wealth of those safely ensconced in the clear-cut, gold-leafed steps at the very top. The view was fabulous from the top but everything remained at a distance. Flood and storm were the lot of those far below. Those above were well above such discomforts. Safe in their wonderful caves hewn from the solid rock and decorated with the finest jewels and antiquities. Their fabulous luxuries were passed upwards by safe passages within the pyramid by loyal slaves. Out of sight of those struggling for their very survival on the slippery slopes outside.

Millenia passed and the wealthy whites at the top remained totally unaware that Africa and Asia had populated the lower slopes in their billions. They were all attracted like flies to the stupendous pyramid inhabited by their fellow man. Eventually the sheer numbers crowded around the base forced them to stand on each others shoulders to find enough space for a first foothold upwards. The vast slope of the pyramid was eventually completely covered in human beings. It took a very long time and many were lost in the struggle for height or crushed by the weight of numbers they supported. The vast mounds of the dead became a foundation for upward mobility.

When the overflowing hordes climbing endlessly over their fellow men finally reached the top of the pyramid they found a group of withered geriatrics. Wasted by the UV of such altitude they were blind and riddled with untreatable cancers. However, so many eventually reached the top that there was no room for them all. They began to fall in increasing numbers. Those below, seeing the terrible waste of life, lost interest in allowing others to climb over them. They started to climb back down and walk away from the vast pyramid which had dominated the earth for so many thousands of years. Those who remained at the top fought to the death over diminishing resources because they had no knowledge of the secret inner passages. Without those below to support them there was no way down. So it came to pass that the pyramid was completely abandoned and at long last every human being learnt how to walk upright on the earth. Sleep well!

[Corey USA]

Originally Posted by Nimby

I like the cut of your Jib, Corey.

Unfortunately the short term behaviour of our respective Neros lacks feedback.

By voting your own Nero back in you have delayed environmental change for two terms rather than one.

Such selfish and blind behaviour is costing the world dear.

While greed continues to be infinitely well rewarded we haven't a hope.

The captain is drunk with power at the wheel. The law demands that he is inviolable.

The rocks threaten but not a man is brave enough to take the helm.

The US contribution to world pollution dwarfs that of other nations.

America is the key to change. While TV advertising buys corrupt leaders your ship is foundering.

The wealthy have no interest in change. Life is far too comfortable at the top. Your electoral system is broken beyond repair.

Your media is owned by vested interests. Concentrating on the celebrity system instead of the facts. Maintaining the status quo.

The emperor fiddles as naked as a baby. Exposed for his corruption of thought and deed for all to see. Except to your own electorate.

Australia has admitted it is in Iraq for oil. You have Paris Hilton.

At least we do not have to put up with Bush after this term. Just hope the next president has some back bone to tell us kids to keep our fingers out of the Ice Cream.

I never did like Paris Hilton!

I personally had no illusions as to why we went to Iraq. I had thought oil as soon as Bush mentioned entering Iraq.

Guess you could say that is why I went down the train of thought regarding corruption and big business. No need for me to re-post them Unless of course I find new info or realize a different perspective or brought up by another..

Sorry for my ignorance "Neros"? "cut of your jib"? first time I have seen the term.

[Corey USA]

Interesting cautionary tale nimby. Many hidden meanings that can translate into the real world.

[Nimby]

"I like the cut of your jib" is a nautical term suggesting that one likes a person's opinions.

"Neros" refers to the mad emperor fiddling while Rome burned.

Quite a few mixed metaphors in my ramblings I'm afraid.

The political electoral system is broken. Our hierarchical control systems are broken.

Communism patently doesn't work because there's far too much room for corruption.

Proportional representation and equality works quite well in Scandinavia. Media freedom comes free in the package even if it doesn't always show responsibility.

Keeping religion completely out of politics is absolutely essential. The most religious countries have the worst inequality, worst crime figures, most violence, worst health and social services and worst corruption. Oh, and probably the lowest environmental concern too.

[njp]

Originally Posted by Nimby

Keeping religion completely out of politics is absolutely essential. The most religious countries have the worst inequality, worst crime figures, most violence, worst health and social services and worst corruption. Oh, and probably the lowest environmental concern too.

I guess if you think we are living in the "End Times", you don't need to worry about the planet. All the best people are "rapture-ready"...

[Stephen Wilde]

Nimby,

A nice picture painted by your story but it's rather like a 'whodunnit' crime story where the writer decides on the ending and works backwards to make all the clues fit the outcome.

I don't for one minute agree with your portrayal of modern western society. I do agree with you about Communism and religion and I do agree that there are problems but if the problems are as you describe then there is no hope since clearly nothing would work.

Many have laboured, fought and died to limit the powers of the Executive and Big Business in our Society and they have created a balance that works overall. It is up to the third world what they do and they are free to try other ways but no other solution has yet been found. If they produce failed societies exporting chaos and violence we are entitled to defend ourselves (that is not a reference to Iraq).

[Nimby]

Stephen

How can you say that the balance is working? Inequality is rife worldwide. We reward those who least deserve it and mistreat those that do. The get rich quick and sod you jack mentality is all-pervasive. Justice is dependent almost entirely on the depth of your bank vault or your position in society. Even when you have wronged so many times that you are finally imprisoned you get a luxury prison to match your economic class.

The planet is groaning under the weight of human beings.

Our diet is poisoning us and shortening our lives. We are unfit as food for any other creature thanks to the build-up of toxins. More and more children are being born with abnormalities. Sperm quality and fertility are falling thanks to the toxins in which we surround ourselves in our desperate bid to own everything that catches our attention. We have children later so we can concentrate on becoming home owners with luxury kitchens, luxury mini buses (for one or two occupants) and annual foreign holidays. Our homes are sets for entertaining rather than comfortable places to live. Most homes now suffer from electromagnetic radiation to add to the smog of formaldehyde.

Contrast all this with the grinding poverty in Africa, Asia and Eastern Europe/Russia.

Our world is so unbalanced and corrupted by the present political/economic systems that I seriously doubt it is fixable. Certainly not in time to save us from WW3 as resources finally run out.

We still have not found a way to control the controllers. There is no way to intervene short of revolution or the next election. Voting numbers are dwindling in many western countries where democracy is still the label we use for a broken system. At one point recently it seemed as if every single European leader was avoiding corruption charges by the skin of their teeth.

Democracy even within a party is at an end. Those who fail to toe the party line are sacked from office. Spouting party propaganda via brief, rehearsed media appearances has become the norm. Questions are not allowed. Party policies are dreampt up to appeal to the mass media by unelected spin doctors. The prime minister has become a dictator to his own party. There is no room for discussion or dissent in today's politics. Broad spectrum politics is at an end. If you're not with us you're against us. Whoever is voted in looks and behaves just like every other empty bag of promises.

Our young now prefer booze and drugs to the existence they have inherited from us. When they are sober they prefer 2nd Life. They have the attention span of a gnat and expect their every whim to be catered for by their absent parents in lieu of love and attention. Two thirds are obese because sugar is not taxed as a dangerous drug and the systems will not allow it. Young and old swig on sugar-filled bottles like babies all of their waking hours. They stuff their faces with unhealthy foods while quality foods are overpriced by the monopolistic supermarket chains.

Every city is a clone of every other. Every chain is a clone of every other. The chains hog the high streets and the out of town shopping centers. Where is choice? Where is variety? Every single supermarket in every town I visit has a board outside asking for 17 year old staff. The queues and the service are abysmal! We have totally lost the social skills and personal service of shopkeeping. Why for god's sake? Why is everything open to competition but always results in the lowest common denominator?

We compete worldwide for the same customers and send goods right round the world when fractions of a penny are at stake. Why? Why do we allow China to manufacture our goods using slavery? Our homes, cars and pockets are full of useless articles with short lifespans. Everything is disposable, including people. We send living animals on long stressful journeys because pennies per animal are saved compared with the competition at home. Something like one third of all farm animals die prematurely because of the stress of industrial farming. The animals are stuffed to the gills with antibiotics to increase growth in competition with their neighbour farmers. Who are doing exactly the same damn thing. Then they threaten vets with their livelihood if they report the illegal practices going on in the vast sheds which despoil our countryside.

Don't even get me started on the obscenity of drug companies overcharging for drugs with lethal side effects. The numbers of people taking dangerous and unnecessary medicines today is a farce. The stress of competing in the global market is killing us in droves. We work longer hours for what? Are we really in competition with the chap at the next computer desk? Or is it a myth that the company is downsizing before exporting sales and service to India?

Europe cannot get enough doctors ad nurses because wages are pathetic and property prices far too high. Our greed has placed our investment property values above those who administer our desperately needed health services. So now they are talking about importing cheap labour from abroad. Non English speaking nurses on the wards are going to go down a treat. Half the doctors are already non-nationals. They should be practicing back at home where there is a desperate need but they would earn even less there and be in daily danger from conflicts and wars.

Now what was that you said about the balance working?

[Stephen Wilde]

Well of course there is a crisis coming due to overpopulation pollution and resource depletion. See my other comments about that.

However the coming problems are a result of success not failure despite all the problems that admittedly still exist.

Your requirements are utopian hence unrealistic. The fact is that there are more people alive today in relative safety comfort and security than have ever lived in such conditions in the history of the planet.
That is a huge achievement of the western way of life and the majority of the third world is clamouring to share in it. The violence opposing it is simply a desperate thrashing about by a minority who will lose power and wealth if the ordinary citizens are freed from poverty and oppression.

The fact that that success has spawned problems of it's own which will be difficult to overcome does not detract from the incredible achievements of the past 500 years. Ever since England invented Parliamentary Democracy, the Industrial Revolution and Modern Scientific Method in fact. They are what made the planet capable of supporting so many people and they will just have to find the solution because there is no other utopian dream that is going to help at all. Indeed utopian delusions are a bigger threat than anything else before us.