[Corey USA]

Article from my home town gone city.

http://www.the-footprint.net/2007/06...-all/#comments

Thought I was being pessimistic.....

Many of the folk here are well educated due to Mayo Clinic...

there are references to the energy situations and the source of the watch dogs providing the actual info not the hype by big energy.....

we are running out of juice. Do you want to waste whats left before finding a viable renewable energy? such as efficient solar and wind? We really need to curb our consumption through reduction/conservation and eliminating wasteful use of energy. This is not an option for nature will run out and it is way closer to being gone. than we were lead to believe. ..

I beg you to change your attitudes and ways before you ruin it for everybody else. I plead to your conscience and your intelligence and your sense of moral and ethical being.

[ijd]

Oh quick, chuck another dinosaur on the bbq before the patio heater goes out.

[njp]

Originally Posted by ijd

Oh quick, chuck another dinosaur on the bbq before the patio heater goes out.

Was there some point you were trying to make?

[ijd]

just it is a bit heavy for an av forum, and a bit political for the non related chill out area

[njp]

Originally Posted by ijd

just it is a bit heavy for an av forum, and a bit political for the non related chill out area

I don't think Stuart intended this part of the forum to be a "chill out" area. Nobody is compelling you to read or contribute here.

[Corey USA]

The point of this section was to get people to take serious to changing our ways so as not to leave an apocalyptic future for the younger generation.

His intent was to try to ensure the survival of his children and others. I am only 33 And will see much of the coming catastrophe if we continue on as usual. We have already gone to the point we are going to see serious damage if we stopped all burning of fossil fuels today.

The point of this thread though was to make aware of the people in this forum that we are going to run out of fossil fuel long before what the energy companies have been telling us. There is a real simple reason for the energy companies to lie to us, It is this if we knew before that we were running out of a limited energy we would back off on it use to conserve. This would cut into there profit. So the action of telling us that its running out breaks there own corporate law that says directors and CEO cannot take any action that would reduce the profit margin.

The info is not provided by the energy companies its provided by the watch dog groups to keep them in line.
There is nothing about it. Your techno goods rely on that energy. no fuel no electronics.

[ijd]

Originally Posted by njp

I don't think Stuart intended this part of the forum to be a "chill out" area. Nobody is compelling you to read or contribute here.

no one compels me to anything, but i have a right to view it along with any other members and i will reply as i see fit, I certainly don`t need you to point that out. However it is a forum where people express opinions and debate current affairs and the like, however when i click on a thread i don't expect to be preached to. If it was asking what people felt about the issue that would be a different matter, All this thread offers is a one sided view with a link to a one sided look at a particular situation, there are always to sides to a a topic, surely
asking for views would be far better than trying to brainwashing us into taking a particular side in a debate by begging and pleading with our consciousness,
I get fed up with being told to cut down on this and that, Rather than sulking about what we should be doing to cut down on our consumption and getting all depressive about it, I embrace technology, Like i am sure do most of the members on this forum, and i am amazed at the leaps and bounds science is making as a logical progression to reduce power consumption from a fossil means, not only are fossil powered plants far more effective, clean and efficient, natural power sources like solar and wind are also taking giant leaps. sure in an ideal world we would all still be living in caves, NO TV.
But this is the twenty first century so it is far better to just get used to it, Embrace it and marvel at the developments that unfold.
Sure we should be concerned for what is in store for the generations to come,But face it, what will be will be, And we already do plenty, the car i drive is far more eco friendly than what i was driving 10 years ago, my lcd tv uses far less power than my old crt, my kitchen appliances all have an A mark for power consumption, apart from the condenser dryer we use, and i will not change the many halogen lights dotted around my home in favor of the dull energy saving type.
So i do do my bit just by following technology, but i dont think i need to be preached to either, i will not be made to feel guilty about the luxery`s i enjoy

[damo_in_sale]

Originally Posted by Corey USA

Article from my home town gone city.

http://www.the-footprint.net/2007/06...-all/#comments

Thought I was being pessimistic.....

Many of the folk here are well educated due to Mayo Clinic...

there are references to the energy situations and the source of the watch dogs providing the actual info not the hype by big energy.....

we are running out of juice. Do you want to waste whats left before finding a viable renewable energy? such as efficient solar and wind? We really need to curb our consumption through reduction/conservation and eliminating wasteful use of energy. This is not an option for nature will run out and it is way closer to being gone. than we were lead to believe. ..

I beg you to change your attitudes and ways before you ruin it for everybody else. I plead to your conscience and your intelligence and your sense of moral and ethical being.

Hi mate,

Are you aware that you are the last poster on twenty three seperate threads, just on this very forum?

[ijd]

and not one of them has anything to do with audio or visual,
A TROLL perhaps

[damo_in_sale]

Originally Posted by ijd

and not one of them has anything to do with audio or visual,
A TROLL perhaps

You might think so, I couldn't possibly comment

One hundred and six posts now mate, and all but three of them on this forum. All in just two weeks as well, very impressive.

And, from what I can gather, the other three were admin related, except for possibly one on the DVD forum.

Your ok though mate, because only people with views such as mine will be considered to be TROLLS here.

[EDIT]

Nope, the DVD post was a new thread, requesting advice as to a good 'energy saving' DVD player. Astonishingly, there have been no replies in six days.

[Corey USA]

Troll? troll where?? me??

part of the reason for my being 23 in row is "time zone" and its a forum not a chat room. While I am writing as if it was a chat room only on a delay. I also have some short term memmory issues so I have to keep at it while its in mind or I loose it(forget).

reason post have nothing to do with audio visual is it about Combating man made global warming and a request for help to move it towards coming up with solutions.

ideally it would be best to get rid of technology. I know that is unrealistic this is what sets me apart from others. I am a conservationist finding balance of earths needs with mans needs.

This particular forum has been stuck in a rut about debating whether humans are polluting our earth to the point of making it unfriendly to life. this forum was created so we could brainstorm Ideas as to what would work and be acceptable before the below constraints are forced on us because of squandering our resources.

We are too over populated to get rid of tech we need tech to supplement for the over population other wise the alternative was genocide to get the population down. Of course genocide won't fly.

I may sound preachy, not my intention, sharing of info, ideas, and views so as trying to stimulate workable ideas that is fair for everybody.

Greed and selfishness makes that difficult to do.

Most of my posts are probably interconnected for one simple fact
Its a task that really can't be compartmentalized. They are all interconnected and need to be dealt with as a whole.

By the way Ijp this is a sub forum and has nothing to do with audio visual with the exception that the audio visual electronics its causing the pollution which is causing so much grief. and if the electronics is used for pure entertainment it is also unsustainable when compaired to say playing a traditional gatar or drum for entertainment.

[damo_in_sale]

Originally Posted by Corey USA

Troll? troll where?? me??

part of the reason for my being 23 in row is "time zone"

No it's not mate, unless your time zone is two weeks behind BST

[Corey USA]

Ok will dedicated to change do damo????

[damo_in_sale]

Originally Posted by Corey USA

Ok will dedicated to change do damo????

I just don't see the point in blasting the forum with incoherent and illegible posts scattergun fashion, especially when there is almost zero prospect of the vast majority of them eliciting any response.

If English is your second language then I sincerely sympathise, as the only foreign exchange I can engage in is ordering a beer in Spain

[EDIT] You don't need to ask me if anything you say or do is ok mate, that's for the mods. I was merely lodging my misgivings regarding your posts, that's all.

[njp]

Originally Posted by ijd

no one compels me to anything, but i have a right to view it along with any other members and i will reply as i see fit

But when I asked you if you had a point you were trying to make, your response was that the thread was "too heavy" and "a bit political". But that's the whole point of this corner of the AV forums. So why make such a pointless comment? If you have an argument, express it in a cogent form so that we can understand it - as you are starting to do now.

Sure we should be concerned for what is in store for the generations to come,But face it, what will be will be

That's completely wrong. The whole point is that "what will be" will in large part be determined by what the human race does in the next few decades. It really is that serious.

And we already do plenty, the car i drive is far more eco friendly than what i was driving 10 years ago, my lcd tv uses far less power than my old crt

Are you sure? Given that we are mostly concerned here with CO2 emissions, is your current car really that much more fuel efficient than the one you were driving ten years ago? Are you sure about the power consumption of your LCD? Most people increase the screen size when they upgrade, and this normally means that their LCD set consumes more power than their old CRT, not less. It cost fuel and resources to make it, too - and those contributed to your carbon footprint.

i dont think i need to be preached to either, i will not be made to feel guilty about the luxery`s i enjoy

I am not particularly comfortable with Corey's preaching either. I'm not a preachy person, and so I tend to focus on issues of science in these debates. But there is a fundamental truth at the heart of what he is saying, and that is that the current situation is unsustainable, and the timescales involved are rather short.

[Corey USA]

So, I am, a different type of person. It is through diversity and working together, that is how we get things done.

There is another reason that I do share as much as I do. That is Something I say might trigger a different train of thought in someone else and they may see a different way of looking at it and share it with us. thus I learn something from what they say because they have said something that I didn't consider.

someone else pointed out, reason no one been trying to figure a working plan here is that the wheel was spinning in regards to the cause and we had nothing to do with it etc. Arguing wasn't working so teaching each other is the key and learning from each other. once we done that then maybe common ground can be reach to plan action and implement.

I suspect another reason some people don't like what I say is that I speak truthfully even if it hurts our own belief systems and such. Just maybe some are starting to question themselves.....

incoherent and illegible posts scatter-gun fashion?? how so? damo?

I don't care for small talk. I also have pointed out that my brain thinks at a differnt level higher than my writing.

So if you can point out what it is about my writing that doesn't make sense I can try to correct it so it does.

Another reason for writing the way I do its harder to take what I write out of context.
by explaining it throughly.

[blearyeyes]

Originally Posted by ijd

no one compels me to anything, but i have a right to view it along with any other members and i will reply as i see fit, I certainly don`t need you to point that out. However it is a forum where people express opinions and debate current affairs and the like, however when i click on a thread i don't expect to be preached to. If it was asking what people felt about the issue that would be a different matter, All this thread offers is a one sided view with a link to a one sided look at a particular situation, there are always to sides to a a topic, surely
asking for views would be far better than trying to brainwashing us into taking a particular side in a debate by begging and pleading with our consciousness,
I get fed up with being told to cut down on this and that, Rather than sulking about what we should be doing to cut down on our consumption and getting all depressive about it, I embrace technology, Like i am sure do most of the members on this forum, and i am amazed at the leaps and bounds science is making as a logical progression to reduce power consumption from a fossil means, not only are fossil powered plants far more effective, clean and efficient, natural power sources like solar and wind are also taking giant leaps. sure in an ideal world we would all still be living in caves, NO TV.
But this is the twenty first century so it is far better to just get used to it, Embrace it and marvel at the developments that unfold.
Sure we should be concerned for what is in store for the generations to come,But face it, what will be will be, And we already do plenty, the car i drive is far more eco friendly than what i was driving 10 years ago, my lcd tv uses far less power than my old crt, my kitchen appliances all have an A mark for power consumption, apart from the condenser dryer we use, and i will not change the many halogen lights dotted around my home in favor of the dull energy saving type.
So i do do my bit just by following technology, but i dont think i need to be preached to either, i will not be made to feel guilty about the luxery`s i enjoy

Hi mate, a refreshing post - my take exactly. We should be celebrating the marvels of technology not moaning with the doomsters and feeling guilty.

Originally Posted by ijd

All this thread offers is a one sided view with a link to a one sided look at a particular situation,

I would totally agree with this sentence, I have made a few posts but have kept out of many of the conversations for fear of just being shot down by a few individuals. The topic is a bit one sided and some here are of the opinion that it has already been established that man is the cause of global warming. I know I am not an expert on this topic at all and maybe to some extent I am not really that bothered but I have yet to read any official evidence that everyone agrees on where man had been proven to do any harm to the environment.

I have just read the topics owners comments under the "About the climate change forum" and it does appear that only people who believe in man made global warming are allowed to post here and discuss the matter. I suppose it would make sense to also have a topic where people who don’t believe in man made global warming can discuss things, just a thought.

[njp]

Originally Posted by Manhattan Mike

The topic is a bit one sided and some here are of the opinion that it has already been established that man is the cause of global warming.

Assuming you are referring to recent, acyclic, warming - it has, beyond any reasonable doubt.

I know I am not an expert on this topic at all and maybe to some extent I am not really that bothered but I have yet to read any official evidence that everyone agrees on where man had been proven to do any harm to the environment.

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. Of course there's no official evidence (whatever that might be) that everyone agrees about that. Indeed, the poll I put on here some time ago proves conclusively that they don't. But if we demanded universal agreement before accepting an idea as true, we would never believe anything!

I have just read the topics owners comments under the "About the climate change forum" and it does appear that only people who believe in man made global warming are allowed to post here and discuss the matter. I suppose it would make sense to also have a topic where people who don’t believe in man made global warming can discuss things, just a thought.

Since the topic owner is also the owner of the entire forum, I think that is unlikely to happen. On the whole, Stuart has been remarkably tolerant of dissenting views here. The text you refer to was added after a spate of particularly pointless posts by certain individuals, now no longer with us. It would be a shame if history repeated itself. My own position is that I am quite happy to debate global warming, because it exposes the weakness of the contrarian's arguments for all to see.

Originally Posted by njp

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. Of course there's no official evidence (whatever that might be) that everyone agrees about that.

Just to clarify my point, I was indicating that as of yet, and as far as I can make out scientists across the world have yet to agree on these facts. Some say yes, some say no. I know that in Europe you have a more pro man made global warming theme then we have in the states. If scientists across the world fail to agree then surly that is not good enough to make a statement that man has any effect on the environment to be causing any problems that will effect the earth.

Originally Posted by njp

Since the topic owner is also the owner of the entire forum, I think that is unlikely to happen. On the whole, Stuart has been remarkably tolerant of dissenting views here.

So are you saying the owner of the forum bans people for not agreeing with the man made global warming theory. I sure dont want to get banend so should I not post anymore ?. I am a little confused by your last paragraph.

[njp]

Originally Posted by Manhattan Mike

Just to clarify my point, I was indicating that as of yet, and as far as I can make out scientists across the world have yet to agree on these facts. Some say yes, some say no.

Amongst the people who actually study the subject, there is an overwhelming consensus that a) global warming is occuring and b) we are largely to blame. Any impression you may have formed to the contrary is unsupported by the published scientific literature. Of course there are dissenters, as there are in any field of study. However, very few of the climate change dissenters are credible. Most have never published any work in the field at all, and of those that have, most either last published decades ago, or else publish in a variety of strange publications with an overtly political agenda. In addition, there is a great deal of misleading or even faked information and bad science thrown around in an attempt to discredit the AGW consensus. It's important not to be fooled by it.

I know that in Europe you have a more pro man made global warming theme then we have in the states. If scientists across the world fail to agree then surly that is not good enough to make a statement that man has any effect on the environment to be causing any problems that will effect the earth.

This is very strange, because much of the work on climate science is done in the states, and your perception does not match what your scientists are saying. So there is a disconnect for some reason. I can only suppose that this is similar to the disconnect we see between "belief" in evolution (overwhelmingly supported by your scientific community), and belief in creationism, which is shared by a much larger percentage of the US population than in Europe.

So are you saying the owner of the forum bans people for not agreeing with the man made global warming theory. I sure dont want to get banend so should I not post anymore ?. I am a little confused by your last paragraph.

No, I'm not. You have to be quite naughty to get a ban, and it would be because of your behaviour, not your beliefs.

[blearyeyes]

Originally Posted by njp

Amongst the people who actually study the subject, there is an overwhelming consensus that a) global warming is occuring and b) we are largely to blame. Any impression you may have formed to the contrary is unsupported by the published scientific literature. Of course there are dissenters, as there are in any field of study. However, very few of the climate change dissenters are credible. Most have never published any work in the field at all, and of those that have, most either last published decades ago, or else publish in a variety of strange publications with an overtly political agenda. In addition, there is a great deal of misleading or even faked information and bad science thrown around in an attempt to discredit the AGW consensus. It's important not to be fooled by it.

Well this explains the 'consensus':

www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/06/24/EDGONP1JNE1.DTL

This is a particularly disingenuous argument since you well know, but refuse to accept, that there are many well qualified people in the field who do not support the IPCC dubious statements and have published papers to support their position.

[njp]

Originally Posted by blearyeyes

Well this explains the 'consensus':

www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/06/24/EDGONP1JNE1.DTL

Nothing there of any consequence, as usual.

This is a particularly disingenuous argument since you well know, but refuse to accept, that there are many well qualified people in the field who do not support the IPCC dubious statements and have published papers to support their position.

Thus far, the only papers you have managed to produce have either been published on dodgy websites or in some dodgy denialist journal. And then thoroughly discredited.

Did you have anything new you wished to bring to the table?

Originally Posted by njp

This is very strange, because much of the work on climate science is done in the states, and your perception does not match what your scientists are saying.

There is hardly anything in the US regarding Global warming, ok maybe these guys are locked away deep down under the Nevada desert somewhere studying it but for the average american on the streets of New York we dont see it or hear about it. The only thing we see is Al Gore lumbering on about it but most people just dont take any notice of him.
It was only since living part time in your country that I even been made aware of it.

[ijd]

Originally Posted by njp

Since the topic owner is also the owner of the entire forum, I think that is unlikely to happen. On the whole, Stuart has been remarkably tolerant of dissenting views here.

Im a little bit lost here,
Corey USA started the topic, so are you telling me he is stuart, the owner of this forum?,
I would like this cleared up as no matter what way i read this quote,I keep coming up with the conclusion that corey and stuart are the same person.
who owns this forum,
To me that does not add up, I hope i am being a bit thick here as the only stuart i can think of here is stuart wright, who i have much respect for,
However if he has had some sort of rethink/mental breakdown , that made him change his name start posting from scratch under this pseudonym and become the planets best buddy I may have to do some serious rethinking.
However if it is just some clown bigging himself up, I will be able to relax again.

[njp]

Originally Posted by ijd

Im a little bit lost here,
Corey USA started the topic, so are you telling me he is stuart, the owner of this forum?

No. It was the way Manhattan Mike chose to describe this particular subforum, and rather than correct his terminology I simply continued to use it.

[njp]

Originally Posted by Manhattan Mike

There is hardly anything in the US regarding Global warming, ok maybe these guys are locked away deep down under the Nevada desert somewhere studying it but for the average american on the streets of New York we dont see it or hear about it. The only thing we see is Al Gore lumbering on about it but most people just dont take any notice of him.
It was only since living part time in your country that I even been made aware of it.

That's an interesting (and rather worrying) insight you've given us. One thing is for sure - you will be hearing about it, one way or another, in the future.

Originally Posted by njp

One thing is for sure - you will be hearing about it, one way or another, in the future.

Lets just hope us Americans dont end up being clobbered with more tax like you brits have. I am pleased its staying your side of the pond at present, but if it does get to the US I doubt the American people would welcome it into their hearts as much as you brits do.

[blearyeyes]

Originally Posted by Manhattan Mike

Lets just hope us Americans dont end up being clobbered with more tax like you brits have. I am pleased its staying your side of the pond at present, but if it does get to the US I doubt the American people would welcome it into their hearts as much as you brits do.

And we here in the UK already have double the cost of living compared to the US! The biggest problem in the UK is that we are a nation of supine sheep who moan about PC laws and taxes based on whims or worse still, environmetal 'ethics'. In the US there is much talk about the ramifications of complying with Koyoto and so on, but that's as far as it goes. Thankfully hell will freeze over before the American people accept the draconian measures that we in Europe have to swallow.

[blearyeyes]

Originally Posted by njp

Nothing there of any consequence, as usual.


Thus far, the only papers you have managed to produce have either been published on dodgy websites or in some dodgy denialist journal. And then thoroughly discredited.

Did you have anything new you wished to bring to the table?

Just taking the opportunity to highlight once again that you are presenting your personal viewpoint, especially when it comes to swallowing the toss that is presented as scientific evidence of MMGW and the 'consensus'.