[Synchro]

Does anybody use them? I'm looking into them for our new house. All comments welcome.

[njp]

My only real comment is that I'm interested in your findings, knowing next to nothing about them myself...

I presume this is fairly pioneering stuff in the UK. Have you found someone able to do the installation at a reasonable price, and have you investigated where to source the wood pellets?

[Corey USA]

First need to find out how much actual energy and resources goes into making the pellets vs using older tech like natural gas and such.

Does the pellets use glue? what is the pellets made of? where is the source of the pellets is it from a saw mill or is it from grinding trees up from the forest?
How much water is used vs other forms of processed fuels(Water is going to be critical as the demand exceeds availability and what type of water used is it drinking water vs river water)
What is the waste product of the processing of the pellets?
Is there much heat involved in drying into a wood pellet form or is it all pressure?

Think in terms of total cost and you might find that some supposedly green products are worse in reality.




DON"T TAKE THE COMPANY WORD FOR IT!!!! They are in it for the profit and will not share any possible negative effects of using wood pellets for fuel..

[johntheexpat]

They do seem to be growing in popularity. I don't know anyone personally who uses them but the publicity is impressive. As for the ecological price, who knows, but I assume they are made from a waste product which would be a plus.
Try this site
http://www.nef.org.uk/logpile/pellets/introduction.htm

[Corey USA]

yes it is a waste product but what I was referencing is what else is added besides wood itself it has to hold together to be pellets is heat or glue involved? if it is this may or may not exceed the energy provided by the actual burning. If the energy is exceeded in the process of making it then it is less environmentally friendly than traditional energy. like the current perpetual motion dilemma same principle applies in regards to energy in vs energy out..

[johntheexpat]

Like every form of heating there is always the hidden costs. Gas central heating for example, has never appealed to me for many reasons. A decent boiler costs £1000+ and must have a substantial energy input to build. And once its in there are pumps, pipes and radiators all with a design life of 20 years if your lucky. And once you have it its so easy to heat every room rather than heat where its needed. But most of all homes with GCH are usually hermetically sealed boxes that can really do for your health due to the nearly always present double glazing and insulation.
But if you have a fire and burn firewood, you have the devil of a job getting the house warm, because hot air goes up the chimney, drafts from outside to replace the hot air in the chimney (which are cold drafts!) and belch smoke around the neighbourhood, causing breathing difficulties for people and other problems.
No easy answers.

[Synchro]

thanks for all your ideas/input, still investigating. have contacted a few installers so far. one only did commercial :'(

[alaniho]

from a purely practical point of view i know a lot of people who have put these in and have had problems with dampness getting at the pellets which then causes the auger to your burner to jam.

Also availability of pellets needs to be considered, there is great potential for rip of prices on the consumables here it seems. I thinks there is potential here but as far as i've seen the technology is't quite perfected yet for domestic use IMHO.

[alaniho]

Originally Posted by Corey USA

yes it is a waste product but what I was referencing is what else is added besides wood itself it has to hold together to be pellets is heat or glue involved? if it is this may or may not exceed the energy provided by the actual burning. If the energy is exceeded in the process of making it then it is less environmentally friendly than traditional energy. like the current perpetual motion dilemma same principle applies in regards to energy in vs energy out..

the pellets are purely compacted wood/waste there is not and need not be any additional binding. They look impressive at shows because they are bone dry.//

I have a woodworking & machinery backround and was involved with installing industrial versions of these. With these usually what happens is that the dust from a storage bin goes into a hopper which hydraulicly compacts the
wood dust (no additives!!!). These pellets are then fed into a burner that can
heat the factory or even generate power (see link below). I think its a very efficient system for industry, saves a fortune on heating and waste storage/disposal.

http://hoecker.kiwicore.com/en/appli...ication_1.html

I have serious reservations as mentioned in my previous post about the domestic variety because tthe pellets have to be brought in from outside sources and they are a nightmare to store. The just go to mush when they get damp!!!!!

[Synchro]

Domestic use is much more advanced in Germany, so they must be doing something right?

[Corey USA]

Originally Posted by alaniho

the pellets are purely compacted wood/waste there is not and need not be any additional binding. They look impressive at shows because they are bone dry.//

I have a woodworking & machinery backround and was involved with installing industrial versions of these. With these usually what happens is that the dust from a storage bin goes into a hopper which hydraulicly compacts the
wood dust (no additives!!!). These pellets are then fed into a burner that can
heat the factory or even generate power (see link below). I think its a very efficient system for industry, saves a fortune on heating and waste storage/disposal.

http://hoecker.kiwicore.com/en/appli...ication_1.html

I have serious reservations as mentioned in my previous post about the domestic variety because tthe pellets have to be brought in from outside sources and they are a nightmare to store. The just go to mush when they get damp!!!!!

That is why I was wondering if there was an additive for the damestic version because of it going to mush factor.

The industrial version Cool . but even then what of all the trees we cut down we are doing it at a rate faster than is what is environmentally sustainable. Like the rain forest being cut down. Cutting it down Is doing a dual purpose which is to clear land and use the hardwood in wood products..

Bad news cutting down all the trees at the rate we are.....

[Synchro]

The pellets are made from sustainable wood sources. If Hardwood sawdust is used, it is a by-product of other work, which removes the wastage product. The argument that the removal of wood used, is harming the environment does not apply in this instance.

[Corey USA]

Originally Posted by Synchrouk

The pellets are made from sustainable wood sources. If Hardwood sawdust is used, it is a by-product of other work, which removes the wastage product. The argument that the removal of wood used, is harming the environment does not apply in this instance.

I am hearing what you say, what the dilemma is, and what I was Was wondering is what else is added other than compaction to get the pellets to stay in there compact form for the domestic use.
Is there anything else added to the Home user version to make it easier to store like glue. The material needs to ship and it is bound to get wet along the way. (if they did use a chemical then it could more environmentally damaging. This is what needs to be considered before mass movement to this tech.)

Alanibo made this comment: I have serious reservations as mentioned in my previous post about the domestic variety because the pellets have to be brought in from outside sources and they are a nightmare to store. The just go to mush when they get damp!!!!!

[paul_w]

You obviously didnt bother to read the first sentence of the same post (alaniho's) did you. Try reading it again from the beginning .

[Corey USA]

Originally Posted by paul_w

You obviously didnt bother to read the first sentence of the same post (alaniho's) did you. Try reading it again from the beginning .

Was trying to keep it in context with everything he was pointing out. not just one sentence. Thanks for pointing it out though, as a result i did a bit of research.

http://www.motherearthnews.com/Alter...n-Gazette.aspx

This one here has to do with particulate pollution which can have an impact on air quality.
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007...ehugger_12.php

emmition wise they are less as long as using waste from industry only for fuel

nothing grown such as crops or grasses. The environmental impact of this is to great in the leaching effect of ground nutrients and land use change.

Based on this information and others. As popularity grows its going to be a problem because of the demand for the fuel. In order to meet demand they are looking at growing fuel as a supplement and alternative to the sawdust from industry. This will be a direct conflict with growing food and habitat as we are seeing with the cutting of the rain forest for olive bio fuels, and corn for bio fuels.

If the fuel remained as waste from other industry then there should be no problems. Take into account of demand for it will exceed the waste from industry forcing the production of fuel just to satisfy the demand. This factor will destroy our ecosystem. So reduction is needed to help prevent the demand for fuel to exceed the waste from industry.

Waste from industry will be reduced when we realize that we are producing more junk than is environmentally sustainable. Thus conservation is needed. Excessive needs to be rained in to balance out.

I am not preaching I am just trying to get you to realize the total cost involved with these things as individual units its fine but excessive consumption and huge demand will make it worse than oil.