It would appear that debate here is to be stifled (which I believe is in line with current government/IPCC policy) and as a debate with only one opinion is useless I have a suggestion to reduce the impact on this alleged (alleged as I'm intelligent and questioning enough not to believe it) MMGW fallacy.

Turn off your servers and your AV equipment.

That's right merely replying to this topic (or deleting it as happened to my last two) contributes to CO2 which some people (not me) believe contribute to a phenomenon known as weather. Computers such as mine are consuming energy and generating heat as I type and as you now read this.

So how can the mods here seriously ask what people can do to reduce MMGW whilst advising people on purchasing consumer products which take masses of energy to produce, require carcinogens to manufacture and create a CO2 footprint?

I've been advised on the plasma TV, five amps, DVD player and pre-amp that I run at home on this very forum. To all intents and purposes a single television with integrated speakers would suffice.

Hypocritical? I happen to think it is.

Am I likely to get another infraction? Quite probably, but if you actually want to make a change to this phenomenon you have to be willing to make sacrifices. This means powering down your computers, televisions and other unnecessary domestic appliances.

Now will this topic be here in the morning? Probably not. If it is I'll read the response, if it's not then I'll know that you prefer to be seen to be doing something rather than actually doing something.

Yes my point is contentious and yes, I'm testing the mods beliefs but if it really is a belief then it is worthy of questioning.

[Dave]

After reading that 3 times, I still don't know what your point is.

Are you concerned about global warming or do you simply have time and energy to waste grinding your axe?

It's a serious question. Is it hypocritical to promote AV equipment (of which I run a lot) on the one hand whilst trying to reduce CO2 emissions (if this is the aim of this section of the forum) on the other?

You can't aspire to high end AV equipment on one hand and yet also aspire to cut down your energy consumption on the other.

The scientist in me sees the two goals as mutually exclusive...

[Dave]

Originally Posted by BliarOut

It's a serious question. Is it hypocritical to promote AV equipment (of which I run a lot) on the one hand whilst trying to reduce CO2 emissions (if this is the aim of this section of the forum) on the other?

You can't aspire to high end AV equipment on one hand and yet also aspire to cut down your energy consumption on the other.

The scientist in me sees the two goals as mutually exclusive...

The aim of this forum is not to reduce C02 emissions but raise the awareness of climate change.

Is it not admirable that the owner of these forums positively promotes raising awareness of climate change by creating a forum for it when the subject matter in hand has virtually nothing to do with AV?

[Stuart Wright]

Originally Posted by BliarOut

It would appear that debate here is to be stifled

No - just trolling.

Originally Posted by Stuart Wright

No - just trolling.

Nope, not at all... Just concerned when I see a mind that's closed to debate. Some scientists believe in MMGW, some don't. It wasn't so long ago that earth was flat according to the best scientific brains on the planet, those that said it wasn't were called heretics. Yet they were proved wrong.

Even things such as the number of planets in our solar system is in a state of flux.

So what's happened to the ice age that I was taught was inexorably marching towards us when I was at school? What's happened to those scientists that believed it was on it's way? Either they're dead, have left science altogether or they've changed their minds. That's what happens in science, it continually evolves as we learn more.

What rankles with me is there is a forum that I respected and which advised me to purchase more amps than I actually need which seems to only allow discussion on the climate if you have a certain opinion.

If you're open minded on the subject your opinion seems to be deleted as it's unwelcome. Is that how debate works? I genuinely don't believe it is.

This is why I'm asking awkward questions. If you're truly concerned about the environment how does that sit with advising people to buy unnecessary domestic equipment at the same time?

Is it a case of being more interested in talking about the environment than actually doing something about it?

Surely the best AV kit is that which consumes the least energy, not that which consumes more energy but sounds better?

[njp]

Originally Posted by BliarOut

Nope, not at all... Just concerned when I see a mind that's closed to debate. Some scientists believe in MMGW, some don't.

Most do, a few don't. Of the ones that don't, even fewer are climate scientists (actually I can only think of one, but I suppose there could be more).

It wasn't so long ago that earth was flat according to the best scientific brains on the planet, those that said it wasn't were called heretics. Yet they were proved wrong.

That's a myth. Eratosthenes had already worked out its circumference fairly accurately by the 3rd century BC.

Even things such as the number of planets in our solar system is in a state of flux.

That's just a question of definitions. As we discover more orbiting bodies, we have to decide how to classify them. There are no big scientific issues to be resolved.

So what's happened to the ice age that I was taught was inexorably marching towards us when I was at school? What's happened to those scientists that believed it was on it's way? Either they're dead, have left science altogether or they've changed their minds.

You were misinformed. There was never more than some speculation about an impending ice age, coupled with a lot of media interest. Nothing remotely approaching a scientific consensus ever existed, because most scientists acknowledged that our understanding of the climate systems was too poor at that time to enable meaningful predictions to be made.

The scientists at the time didn't say they were poorly informing us. What happens in a few years time (2012 according to current predictions) when things start cooling down?

Will the scientists who currently believe in MMGW admit they have got it wrong?


That aside, doesn't it strike you as odd arguing to reduce climate change on a forum that actively promotes unnecessary use of energy?

[TheMuffDoctor]

Originally Posted by BliarOut

The scientists at the time didn't say they were poorly informing us. What happens in a few years time (2012 according to current predictions) when things start cooling down?

It will be very interesting to see what happens, all those scentists supporting Global Warming will quickly change sides so they dont loose credability and dont have to explain why they worried everyone for no good reason.

[njp]

Originally Posted by BliarOut

The scientists at the time didn't say they were poorly informing us.

Which scientists were personally informing you of anything?

What happens in a few years time (2012 according to current predictions) when things start cooling down?

Whose prediction is that?

[damo_in_sale]

Originally Posted by njp

Which scientists were personally informing you of anything?


Whose prediction is that?

We are not scientists; we got our information from the media and the educational establishment, at least until recently. Could it have been their consensus, at the time?

When I was at secondary school, I was placed in the top set for English and English literature, along with the other 'high achievers’ in the year, at the start of the old fourth year (my first GCSE year).
We were given a new teacher, whose name I forget. During that year we spent endless hours debating leftie ideology such as stereotyping, multiculturalism (if you wish to attack me on this then you don’t know what it means in reality), gay adoption etc. Arguing was much more fun than doing proper work. When the exams came though, we all performed appallingly, as you can no doubt tell from my written English. She got a bollocking from the (old fashioned) subject head, which in my opinion was well deserved.

It turned out however that this wasn’t her fault; it was ours, as a class. You see, her teacher training college had taught her that it was better to ‘allow’ ourselves to ‘discuss’ ‘issues’ and then we could reach our own ‘understanding’, and at our own rate. It was merely our fault that we didn’t reach the mark.

I presume NJP that you would be aghast if the above techniques were applied to scientific teaching (are you sure they aren’t?).

My girlfriend’s nephew is a lovely lad, aged eight. He is extremely inquisitive but unfortunately, like mine, his parents aren’t academically minded. They are nonetheless thoroughly decent, honourable, hardworking and loving parents, and are wonderful people. It is, however, my contention that they have too much trust in those who are educating their children:
A couple of weeks ago we went to visit, and we brought a book about ancient Egypt as a present. When shown a photo of the great pyramids he pointed out that aliens had built them. When I told him that this was absurd he said that his teacher had told him that it was entirely possible, and ‘we should listen to all points of view’. He seemed very reluctant to concede that Egyptian men had built them; his second preference seemed to be that Jewish slaves had built them under the force of the whip.

Again, the above probably seems irrelevant to many on this forum. But I ask the question: ‘If this is what our children are being taught in English and History classes, what the hell are they being taught about global warming’?

Regards,

Damo

[Stephen Wilde]

That's easy. They are being told it is a clear and present danger and that their parents are to blame and for the rest of their lives they must do as they are told for the sake of the planet.
It will also be a crime to work hard to advance themselves, to earn and/or save money for personal use or to try and help their children get a good start in life because everyone has to start equal by law.

[njp]

I think your true colours are starting to reveal themselves...

Originally Posted by Stephen Wilde

That's easy. They are being told it is a clear and present danger and that their parents are to blame and for the rest of their lives they must do as they are told for the sake of the planet.
It will also be a crime to work hard to advance themselves, to earn and/or save money for personal use or to try and help their children get a good start in life because everyone has to start equal by law.

It's becoming clear that this is really nothing to do with global warming as such. You are just another conspiracy theorist with some political hangups.

[Stephen Wilde]

If that helps you to discount my opinions then so be it.

I must admit the above was somewhat tongue in cheek to wind you up.

Still, there is a kernel of truth in it. How much truth is for each individual to judge from his or her own experiences.

[blearyeyes]

Surely things are going over the top now with 'save the planet' messages jumping out at every turn. Just this morning, stuck on a bottle of washing-up liquid, - "Together we can stop climate chaos - find out how - we're giving away 2,000 copies of 'I count' books, etc." This evening on blue Peter, kids being indoctrinated on how we are wrecking the earth and how we can prevent this!!

Strange how the MMGW brigade can't explain how there's been a bout of 'unseasonally' cold weather from South Africa to Europe, the US to Australia. However no doubt it must be due to 'climate chaos', whatever the hell that is!!?

[njp]

Originally Posted by blearyeyes

This evening on blue Peter, kids being indoctrinated on how we are wrecking the earth and how we can prevent this!!

I recorded that, having noticed it in the listings. And I actually agree with you that much of what is confidently bandied around at this level as "caused by global warming" is plain wrong, and does the science no favours. There was a particularly dubious example in the programme of coastal erosion, which I am fairly sure is better explained in terms of misguided attempts to prevent longshore drift further up the coast.

Strange how the MMGW brigade can't explain how there's been a bout of 'unseasonally' cold weather from South Africa to Europe, the US to Australia.

Climate is not the same as weather. If you can't grasp that, it is little wonder you have trouble understanding the science.

[Stephen Wilde]

Weather is the daily manifestation of climate.
Climate changes drive weather changes.
Weather changes can be evidence of climate changes over a suitable time period.

Alarmists use weather as evidence of warming but complain if sceptics use weather as evidence either that it is not warming or that the results of warming are not as predicted.

[njp]

Originally Posted by Stephen Wilde

Weather changes can be evidence of climate changes over a suitable time period.

Of course.

Alarmists use weather as evidence of warming but complain if sceptics use weather as evidence either that it is not warming or that the results of warming are not as predicted.

I'm not an alarmist, and nor are the people whose opinions I respect.

[pjclark1]

Back on topic.
This forum has helped me to save energy, when I first joined I had a 400w panny plasma, after a while I was convinced to replace it with a 170w Sagem RPTV. A net saving of 230w, well done AVforums.

Originally Posted by nikyzf

It's becoming clear that this is really nothing to do with global warming as such. You are just another conspiracy theorist with some political hangups.

If eveyone really is out to get me, am I still being paranoid?

[The Dude]

Me too.

I've reduced power consumption by a potential 10KWh in the last year, mainly by selling most of my AV equipment and getting rid of the 'Cinema room'.


My conscience is clear, how about yours?

[toycollector]

Originally Posted by The Dude

Me too.

I've reduced power consumption by a potential 10KWh in the last year, mainly by selling most of my AV equipment and getting rid of the 'Cinema room'.


My conscience is clear, how about yours?

Bought a LCD TV for the livingroom ,then one for the bedroom. But i did put two solar lights in the garden!
Is my conscience clear? You're damned right.
When i see all these so called experts flying into world summits and being ferried to meetings in large BMWs and Mercs ,i sleep like a baby.
We are being brainwashed daily by the BBC about M.M.G.W , and pay for the privalege.
I am sure by the time we find out its all a load of tosh,the scientists will be sitting back enjoying their retirement . Probably on a fat state pension paid for by the rest of us.

[Corey USA]

Anyone bother to think that maybe the reason for the "global warming" Hype or truth is to wake us up to the destructive nature of our actions? That it's done to show us that we are polluting our earth beyond its ability to cope or sustain us? That if we continue the path we are on we "will Destroy our Earth?" Is "green washing" rather than actually changing our behavior, the answer to fixing the problem? What of self accountability? Self discipline? Personal responsibility? Moral, Ethical Decisions and actions?

As far as Stuart Wright starting this part of the forum was to try to find a median between a person's wants and personal responsibility and accountability for there action. Do we have the right to destroy our earth so we can have the excessive creature comforts at everybody else's expense?

I have a vizio 37lcd uses 220 watts I went back to my old 30in CRT TV which uses 113 watts I watch maybe 3-4 hours of movies a week which was 8-10 hours a day before for purely entertainment.

I only use a computer to talk on forums to move the ball towards change and adaptation to an "Environmental sustainability" not just "sustainability". I use the computer with a purpose of making a better world for I can reach a larger audience than what I can in my apartment building. So I consider the trade off for the energy used vs the number of people I reach is acceptable trade off for now. I also use the computer to educate myself about what certain groups don't want me to know as part of being more responsible and ethical about what I do from here out.

If you want to continue to use the High end Av stuff then DEMAND that they be designed with the absolute bare minimum energy requirements and avoid buying anything from today forward that is energy intensive. This is an example of personal responsibility. If you want to go farther, then eliminate all forms of electronic entertainment of all kinds . Necessity is the only thing we really need. anything in the luxury department is just that a luxury that includes electronics for the purpose of entertainment.

This last paragraph I wrote above will be seen by electronics companies as hearsay and such for they are worried that people might decide to take different actions that are more environmentally sustainable. Especially when they learn the real meaning of Environmental sustainability. When people start to realize just how badly we poisoned our environment up till now and how sensitive our sick Ecosystem is to rapid changes in temperature, and realize that we cannot survive without a intact Ecosystem. They would be willing to change. In the process of changing they will discontinue buying certain things as part of the process. Its part of adapting. Current big business does not want to adapt for they twisted the way business is done to favor them. If the companies had to adapt they would loose that favoritism that makes it easy for there profit machines. I attack the "way we do things now, mentality and thinking and acting" that is environmentally unsustainable". I am NOT attacking anyone person or group.