[stephentw]

I've been semi looking into getting one of the Harmony range of remotes and was wanting some honest feedback on them, everyone seems to rave about them.

I currently use the learning remote from my Onkyo 705. It's good, I can add up to about 6 remotes into it but its quite annoying because the buttons aren't labelled as logically as they could be and in some cases a remote has a button which doesn't correspond at all so I assign it to a button I think is most logical but then when it comes to using it I've forgotten which I assigned it to meaning I still have some remotes out as well as that.

Would that be the case with a harmony, as they seem expensive and if its going to be no different I see little point in trying one out. Also could the harmony replace the Onkyo remote as it has strange specific buttons for surround modes and such.

In other words, convince me

[wingnut121]

if every one raves about them isn't that enough convicing?

i have one and its great, you have to spend time setting it up perfectly, and i ahve had it for a few months and there are always thing i want to edit, like i just got a ir4ps3 and i wanted the icons to come up so i wa splaying round with that, there is so much playing to do and the lay out of the buttons is upto you, i love it and i dont think i can go back to my old trust megatron

[askpackers]

Hi, I have 2 in the house now, my main being the 1000. I would agree with wingnut but do think Logitech could be a bit faster responding to some of the basic issues that I have come across eg the 1000 still doesn't display a clock which I had on my previous harmony but if I was to rate it against all other learning remotes I have played with this is by far the easiest to setup and manage changes to my kit of which I have had many.

[SeedyR]

Harmony's are great. It works absolutely fine with my Onkyo 805, you can customise the buttons so have what modes you like where you want them. My girlfriend wasn't convinced when I asked her to get me one for my birthday, but even she's now lost without it. Surely that must convince you now?

[Zappes]

I'm in the exact same situation as stephentw and I had exactly the same problems withe the previous universal remotes I tested. I'm in the process of falling for the Harmony One right now, and I find the things I read here very interesting.

The only thing that makes me wonder is that there doesn't seem to be anybody who's not completely convinced that the Harmony is the best thing since the invention of sliced bread. Is there really nothing you Harmony owners find annoying about the devices? I guess that those things would be the most interesting for stephen and me as we both seem to be trying to find out what the problems with the devices are and if we are willing to accept those.

So go ahead - please tell us what you don't like now we know what you love.

[Goooner]

Managed to consign 5 or 6 remotes to the cupboard after getting my 555, now I just use that and my PS3 remote.

Tried a Pronto, years ago, but never really got on with it, it was far too complicated for the wife to use anyway

[clockworks]

Originally Posted by Zappes

I'm in the exact same situation as stephentw and I had exactly the same problems withe the previous universal remotes I tested. I'm in the process of falling for the Harmony One right now, and I find the things I read here very interesting.

The only thing that makes me wonder is that there doesn't seem to be anybody who's not completely convinced that the Harmony is the best thing since the invention of sliced bread. Is there really nothing you Harmony owners find annoying about the devices? I guess that those things would be the most interesting for stephen and me as we both seem to be trying to find out what the problems with the devices are and if we are willing to accept those.

So go ahead - please tell us what you don't like now we know what you love.

For the money, Harmony remotes are great. Not the greatest, but you have to spend a lot more to beat them.

Things I don't like:

Build quality is a bit suspect - my 885 and 525 both have dodgy buttons. The One might be better?

The software is quite annoying - should have an "expert" mode that allows you to bypass all the questions, and just do what you want to do.

The 1000 is expensive, given the lack of customisation options for the graphics.


I prefer my Pronto TSU9600, but they now cost well over £600.

[infinite_loop]

If it's any "balance", I bought one (a 555). found it creaky in construction, poor software that got stuck in infuriating loops, seemed to have a very poor angle of view and essentially found itself being sold a few weeks later, and I went back to the Pronto.

[SeanT]

I love my 895, couldn't live without it, the only things they could add really are a decent mouse pad (I still use either my iMON pad or my wireless keyboard and touchpad combo with the pc, would be nice if I didn't need to) and the ability to make very minor changes on the remote itself (like, really minor changes, like changing the time when the battery has run out without plugging the usb in and reflashing!!!)

Bought my bro a 525, he just needs the ps3 IR addon now, anyone got links for prices and opinions on which ones are any good?

[stephentw]

The thing I don't get is how do I use such a specific button like say "pure audio" on my Onkyo, I know it has a screen but does this mean that all the fiddly strange buttons have to be accessed via the screen? So for a remote like the squeezebox how would that work out as that has lots of strange buttons.

[ExSlacker]

Originally Posted by stephentw

The thing I don't get is how do I use such a specific button like say "pure audio" on my Onkyo, I know it has a screen but does this mean that all the fiddly strange buttons have to be accessed via the screen? So for a remote like the squeezebox how would that work out as that has lots of strange buttons.

You can remap various commands to the different keys or the touch screen to suit. The main thing to get used to is setting up the activities to make life easier - eg if you want to use the "pure audio" mode when listening to music you could add the command to a "listen to CD" activity after switching to the right input on the amp and setting the main buttons to control your CD player.

You can also set up sequences of commands but they could be improved. You can only use 5 steps per sequence and they can't be used in activity sequences. The other minor annoyance I have found with the one is that you can only add pictures to the favourite channels section and not to any other soft buttons.

[SeedyR]

Originally Posted by stephentw

The thing I don't get is how do I use such a specific button like say "pure audio" on my Onkyo, I know it has a screen but does this mean that all the fiddly strange buttons have to be accessed via the screen? So for a remote like the squeezebox how would that work out as that has lots of strange buttons.

You can assign any of the buttons on the remote to do what you want. I usually have modes like "pure audio" etc on the screen so I can always remember what they are. My first page on my Onkyo (you can have many screens of buttons for each device) I have all my regular buttons that I'd press, so my inputs and sources are on the first screen along with the power button, then modes and less used features are on the following page. The good thing is these are all labelled, so instead of having "HDMI" 1 you can have "PS3".

Now you don't have to have pure audio function on the top screen. If you wanted to, you can assign it to whatever button you wanted so the + key or a number, or even the play button if you so wished. But as I said, it makes more sense to have it on the screen so you can remember what it does.

I don't have a squeezebox so can't really comment on that specifically but the ability to customise the buttons to your liking is definitely there. One my best mates has a Harmony and so does my dad. All of us have similar devices but all have our remotes set up differently with button layout etc. The great thing about the Harmony is that with just a bit of tinkering it can perfect for YOUR needs.

[logiciel]

Originally Posted by SeedyR

my inputs and sources are on the first screen along with the power button

Are you not using Activities - that do all the input and power controls automatically for you?
As the post#11 says: "The main thing to get used to is setting up the activities" - more than that they're what you pay for, over a normal universal remote.

[Cyril]

Originally Posted by clockworks

For the money, Harmony remotes are great. Not the greatest, but you have to spend a lot more to beat them.

Things I don't like:

Build quality is a bit suspect - my 885 and 525 both have dodgy buttons. The One might be better?

The software is quite annoying - should have an "expert" mode that allows you to bypass all the questions, and just do what you want to do.

The 1000 is expensive, given the lack of customisation options for the graphics.


I prefer my Pronto TSU9600, but they now cost well over £600.

The URC mx series are a half-way house between the £600 pronto and the harmony remotes.

They are great if you have more than 15 devices but want lots of buttons and a TiVo-shaped style remote like the Harmony.

They are £60 to £500 with models for every budget.

Not as flashy as the Harmony range, but more programmable for the higher end models.

[Zappes]

OK, it happened to me. Yesterday I ordered a Harmony One and the IR4PS3 module... How did this happen? And how does this relate to this thread? Read on and you'll find out.

First I want to state that I owned several of the "normal" universal remotes you get these days, but never one in the league of a Harmony or Pronto. The ones I actually used were the one that came with the AVR models Onkyo 605, Onkyo 806 and Denon 2809 as well as the one from my TV (Sony 52X3500) and some cheapish Sony thing I bought a long time ago because the remote of my DVD player broke. To make it short: I hated all of those devices for the reasons already given by stephenw - I never managed to remember which functions were mapped to the many buttons and there were always some functions I needed but that were not available.

The fact that the remote for my new AVR (the Denon 2809) is complete and utter crap gave me the idea that I might have to try one of those fancy Harmonies, after all. At this point I have to mention that I am a really lucky guy: My wife is a computer journalist. I simply asked her to order the Harmony One from Logitech as a test sample, and that's what she did... As soon as the thing arrived, she brought it home and I had the chance to check it out for free.

The first impression was extremely annoying, to be honest, and the software was the cause. I am a passionate Linux user, and I run that OS exclusively on all my machines. Given the fact that the Logitech software doesn't really do much more than display a web site makes it outright insulting that the it requires Windows or MacOS. Luckily I had an old laptop and a Windows 2000 licence lying around, and I set the old machine up as my Harmony programming environment. That one took me around 2 hours that I would rather have spent in some other way, so if somebody from Logitech reads this: Port your damn software to Linux. If necessary, give me the sources and I'll do it myself somehow. Just don't force me to use Windows just to be able to program the remote control for my home cinema setup.

As much as I wish to continue with a positive impression, I can't. After installing the software I actually had to use it, and suddenly the OS installation seemed to be the least problem of the evening. While some people might find it very nice that the software decides more or less everything for them, I would like to have more control. I want to be able to create a blank activity and add all the commands myself without some piece of crappy program code deciding for me which types of activity may or may not be sensible and which devices should be used in those activities. Really, some sort of "Expert Mode" for the tool that let's you simply chain commands without restrictions would be incredibly nice.

After two hours I was a bit unnerved, but the initial configuration was finally in place. I had the following devices configured in a simple, yet useable way:

• TV: Sony KDL-52X3500
• HD-DVD: Toshiba HD-XE1
• Cable: Humax PR-FOX-C II
• Playstation 3
• XBox 360
• Wii

The PS3 and Wii can obviously not be controlled using the Harmony as they require Bluetooth, but they have to be added to the configuration, anyway, as they can't be used in activities without doing so. I find this senseless and annoying as it clutters the "devices" tab on the remote, but I guess I can live with that. Using the IR4PS3 module that should arrive next week I will be able to control the PS3, anyway, and one "dummy device" on the tab won't kill me.

Whatever, after I had everything in place I started toying around with the configuration. I had to reprogram the remote 4 or 5 times as I didn't have all details configured correctly, but those were just minor tweaks and mistakes you don't repeat after you understood how the thing ticks. Apart from the fact that the software feels like a ball on a chain that's attached to your ankles, the configuration was surprisingly painless. Most people should be able to get that done even if they don't have a degree in computer science. As I happen to have such a degree, this statement contains a small portion of speculation, though.

Now, the thing that really surprised me was how natural it felt to use the Harmony from the first moment on. The concept of activities and devices is extremely intelligent and the remote somehow manages to actually do what I intended in almost every situation. There were few situations where a function was missing, and those situations brought another surprise: My first instinctive reaction was not to switch to the original remote controls, but to add the missing function to the Harmony. Toying around with the device was so much fun that I didn't want to use something that has no shiny touchscreen. I even preferred using the software (did I mention its general level of crappiness yet?) to using the original remotes. I have to admit that this was unexpected. Very much so, actually.

While I had been toying around with the remote, my wife had been playing some game on her notebook without paying too much attention to what I was doing. She knows her way around technology but as far as the home cinema is concerned, she only wants as a big a screen as possible and her favourite movies on it. She doesn't care about the details of the setup as long as it works properly. She feels that it's my "job" to provide what she expects from that stuff and I am happy to oblige. Given that situation it didn't surprise me that she didn't even bother to ask me if I liked the Harmony. I actually suspect she had almost forgotten that I'd been playing with it. Well, this was a good situation for a test. While she was totally focused on her game, I hid all remotes and put the Harmony on the table in front of her. Time to wait.

After about 15 minutes, she shut down her PC, grabbed the Harmony, activated the "watch TV" activity, changed to the channel she wanted to see and had a look at the videotext. That was the point where she suddenly said "Oh, that's the Harmony? Nice one." I guess you can say that the remote passed the test for intuitive handling.

Now for a preliminary conclusion and back to the thread's original topic: Yes, the Harmony is the only remote you need. It's far from perfect in many respects and the software provided by Logitech is one of the most annoying pieces of software I've seen in a long time - but the device does what it's supposed to do, it looks nice and it's fun to use. I don't want nor need more, so I didn't bhave to think long before buying the thing.

Epilogue: As I had decided to buy the Harmony, my wife wanted the remote back so she could write a test about it. I gave it back this morning, and I simply can't believe how annoying I found it to use the 5 different remote controls that are lying in front of me as I write these lines. I simply can't wait for my Harmony to be delivered - and the only reason for which I'll ever fetch one of the original remotes out of the drawer will be if I have to use it to teach some exotic IR command to the Harmony.

[stephentw]

Cool, thanks for that. That does ease my worries a bit then. And thinking about the Squeezebox, that should work perfectly on the Harmony anyway because they're both Logitech devices.

So which Harmony do various people use? Has anyone used a few different ones and found a favourite? The One seems a popular choice and the 1000 seems to be the posh choice. Whats the differences apart from appearance?

[Zappes]

Originally Posted by stephentw

So which Harmony do various people use? Has anyone used a few different ones and found a favourite? The One seems a popular choice and the 1000 seems to be the posh choice. Whats the differences apart from appearance?

I had the 1000 in my hands yesterday, went to a dealer to have a look at it before buying the One. I didn't really like it. While the One looks, feels and behaves like a remote control, the 1000 is more like a tablet PC. You have to actually look at it in order to hit any but the most basic buttons as almost everything happens on the touch screen. While I thought that would be very cool, I discovered that I didn't like it at all.

If I were you, I'd follow Zappes' example: Go to a store, take the 1000 into your hands and decide for yourself. It isn't the right thing for me, but it might be for you.

[stephentw]

Thanks, I might just do that

[logiciel]

Great account Zappes and good you like it enough to get one.

You seem to have been using something different from the Harmony software though!

"the software decides more or less everything for them"
It doesn't - you make all the decisions.
"I would like to have more control."
You have total control.
"I want to be able to create a blank activity and add all the commands myself"
You can - the "Utility" Activity -, but there's usually no need to as there is such a wide range of Activity types.
"program code deciding for me which types of activity may or may not be sensible"
It doesn't - you have all those types to choose from.
"which devices should be used in those activities"
It doesn't specify them - it offers you a choice and if you want to add any other devices you can.

The software is far from perfect, but those are not among its many faults.

[Zappes]

Originally Posted by logiciel

You seem to have been using something different from the Harmony software though!

"the software decides more or less everything for them"
It doesn't - you make all the decisions.
"I would like to have more control."
You have total control.
"I want to be able to create a blank activity and add all the commands myself"
You can - the "Utility" Activity -, but there's usually no need to as there is such a wide range of Activity types.
"program code deciding for me which types of activity may or may not be sensible"
It doesn't - you have all those types to choose from.
"which devices should be used in those activities"
It doesn't specify them - it offers you a choice and if you want to add any other devices you can.

The software is far from perfect, but those are not among its many faults.

Well... The terms "decision" and "control" seem to be open to some degree of intepretation here. Let me clarify the things that bugged me:

I have an activity "Watch DVD" that obviously uses my AVR, the TV and my HD DVD player. I would like to use the "play" command to switch on the HD DVD player instead of the "on" command. I can't do this because the software decided that a device included in the configuration should be turned on using the "on" command, and this is a part of the activity it won't allow me to change, at least not in the software version 7.50. This is a lack of control.

(I have to admit, though, that I have not found the "utility" activity type during my first experiments - that one might solve my problem if it is what it sounds like. As soon as I get my Harmony, I will try that one.)

Still, the software is junk. It looks bad and handling is often clumsy, a pronblem that's caused by the fact that the tool is a web site, not a real piece of software. I don't like it and, as long as it isn't rewritten from scratch, never will - but that won't keep me from loving the actual piece of kit we're talking about, the remote. One always has to keep in mind that even lousy PC software is a thousand times better than having to configure all that stuff on the display of the remote itself.

[Deputy Dawg UK]

Originally Posted by wingnut121

if every one raves about them isn't that enough convicing?

i have one and its great, you have to spend time setting it up perfectly, and i ahve had it for a few months and there are always thing i want to edit, like i just got a ir4ps3 and i wanted the icons to come up so i wa splaying round with that, there is so much playing to do and the lay out of the buttons is upto you, i love it and i dont think i can go back to my old trust megatron

Great PIC on your reply wingnut...is that the latest Harmony looks terrific although slight bulky...i may stick with my slimline 1000 LOL

[logiciel]

Zappes: You want to power on a device by a command other than the normal power-on command?
That's a feature over which you DO have total control - go to Devices> Adjust Power> and after two or three other options you are presented with the power-on setting beside which is the dropdown list that contains all the device's commands and from which you can select any command you wish.
The Utility type is the last on the extensive list that is presented whenever you take the option for a New Activity.
I've agreed already that the software has its faults - just not the same ones, and as serious, as those you report.

[Zappes]

The hint with the power on command is a good one - I'll try to remember that. Now tell me how I can upload custom bitmap images for all soft keys (like the ones for the TV channels) and I'll stop whining. :D

[logiciel]

That's OK Zappes!
My recommendation is to use the screen for nothing other than Activities and Favourite Channels - no more pictures needed!
Surely all those hard buttons are sufficient for every other need?
Logi.

[logiciel]

Originally Posted by Deputy Dawg UK

is that the latest Harmony

I don't see ANY Harmony in the pic.

[Zappes]

Originally Posted by logiciel

Surely all those hard buttons are sufficient for every other need?

Nah, I want to be able to control everything in the old-fashioned way whenever I feel like it. If I wanted to have a hard button for every function of my AVR (Denon 2809), I'd need a PC keyboard instead of the Harmony.

I also have to admit that the soft buttons are the main reason why I like the Harmony at all - as I wrote, I'm not good at remembering function mappings to hard keys. The soft keys eradicate that problem, so why shouldn't one use them.

That said, we drift away from the thread's topic, I'm afraid.

[clockworks]

Zappes

If you want custom graphics for softkeys, you'll have to get a Pronto - you can use any bitmap-type file you like, in any position, in any size. Totally customisable.

The only valid reason that I can see why Logitech don't put this feature in their software is the way the software works - it would put a strain on their server, storing all the extra graphics files in your config.

[Mariner]

Originally Posted by logiciel

I don't see ANY Harmony in the pic.

Ahem:

Urban Dictionary: The Megatron

[stephentw]

Originally Posted by clockworks

it would put a strain on their server, storing all the extra graphics files in your config.

The Harmony has to connect to the internet to be configured? Why would it need to store anything on a server, surely storing it on a PC is enough?

[clockworks]

Originally Posted by stephentw

The Harmony has to connect to the internet to be configured? Why would it need to store anything on a server, surely storing it on a PC is enough?

Yes, you have to be connected to the Harmony website to configure the remote. Your config is stored on their server.
In some ways, this is good, as it allows Harmony support to make changes to your config for you. It also allows users to share codesets from devices, without Logitech having to do anything, other than host the data.