[jonnboyy69]

Originally Posted by Broadsword

At least I guess it confirms that they are increasing the device limit. Which is a good thing. I think 8 devices would move this remote into a contender for most people.

Yep indeed! Based on this rumour ive gone ahead anyway and purchased a 700 today. Would have purchased the Harmony One however the coloured buttons/£50 saving and the impending 8 remote improvement has finally swayed it for me..... lets hope Logitech do this.

[Demon]

Originally Posted by Broadsword

Why is it vastly inferior?

I understand the device limit and the screen size but apart from that? Its a nicer ergonomic design than the 785 I feel and the programming is much the same. What else is there that you are not happy with?

At least I guess it confirms that they are increasing the device limit. Which is a good thing. I think 8 devices would move this remote into a contender for most people.

That might have been a fractionally rash statement, however,

1. Screen - It's considerably bigger/brighter/more legible on the 785 with 6 side buttons..
2. It supports 15 devices
3. It has adjustable inter-key delays and other advanced stuff, which is very handy with some devices
4. The 785 has a cradle for recharging, the 700 is using micro USB which seems a flimsier mechanical connection, and I don't see the reason on a 'large' remote control..
5. It looks very clunky, the 785 looks much more modern.. (Yes subjective, but I'd be confident the majority would agree)



And the 700 is not more ergonomic, the only thing it seems better on is the spacing/size of the numeric keys, but to use it one handed, moving from the '0' button to the side buttons by the display, the weight/shape/shinier rear plastics of the 700 makes it move around more in your hand, and it's more of a stretch if you hold it in it's 'designed' way (i.e. matching your grip to the contour of the display), the 785 has a squarer shape that feels much more planted, and it's less of a stretch to get around the remote.

Granted, the 700 is perfectly fine, but in reality, the 785 matches the ONE, just no touch screen, but it has the 6 side buttons, and dedicated colour buttons. In fact if they put the 900 colour keys on the ONE, they'd have an almost perfect remote at that price point, although aesthetics are a little lacking on the new range for some of us..

Sorry if my rashness caused offence, I'm mighty annoyed at Logitech, I have tons of their kit around the home, and normally swear by it, and have had very good CS before this point, but it feels as if they've tried to pull a fast one on me. Initially by phone they offered a Harmony ONE, then in the support ticket, they asked if I'd be happy with a 700, I said no due to the device limit etc, and they said would a ONE be OK? to which I said yes, the next thing I know, they just send an automated shipping notice that a 700 has been dispatched with the reasoning that it now supported 8 devices..

I'll get over it, as I have a new 785 I have sourced, but would like to try the ONE, to see if it's worth switching.. then whichever I don't want I can sell on.

[logiciel]

That reads as a very reasoned assessment of the situation, and the details confirm my general points that "several factors....make the 700 an inappropriate replacement for a 785, and that "my reaction would have been to insist on the One that was originally promised".
The 700 and One are two quite different models, produced for different markets, each with its distinct advantages and disadvantages, and by no means are they equivalent to each other.

[Demon]

Originally Posted by logiciel

That reads as a very reasoned assessment of the situation, and the details confirm my general points that "several factors....make the 700 an inappropriate replacement for a 785, and that "my reaction would have been to insist on the One that was originally promised".
The 700 and One are two quite different models, produced for different markets, each with its distinct advantages and disadvantages, and by no means are they equivalent to each other.

You are/where exactly right, I'll see what Logitech say, and try and aim for that.



[edit]
Well, I have to hand it to Logitech, they may be sending me a Harmony One! I'll wait and see, but wow if they do, that is a superb recovery from CS!

[logiciel]

That was extremely quick - how did you do it?

[Demon]

Originally Posted by logiciel

That was extremely quick - how did you do it?

I just replied to the support ticket saying essentially, the 700 was not acceptable to me as a fair replacement to a 785, for many of the reasons above. I quite quickly had a note on the ticket which again indicates an RMA replacement is being sent, entitled "H One"! It says dispatch and tracking to follow, so I'll see what happens!

[fredsie]

Originally Posted by Demon

the 700 is using micro USB which seems a flimsier mechanical connection, and I don't see the reason on a 'large' remote control..

I don't see this as a bad thing. Micro USB was, at long last, adopted by the world mobile phone industry as the universal standard, thus eliminating the problem of everyone having 9 different mobile chargers, at home and in cars, gathering dust in the garage. This just appears to be Logitech aligning with the new standard for charger connectors.

[lds1]

What is the bottom line re upgrade to 8 devices for the 700. Does anyone know?

Cheers, Laurie.

[logiciel]

Originally Posted by Demon

Had a reply to the support ticket,
Originally Posted by Logitech Support
Sorry about that as this is what I was told. The 700 will control 8 devices however the date has been pushed to November.

This is the latest.

And well done Demon on persisting and succeeding.

[Broadsword]

Originally Posted by fredsie

I don't see this as a bad thing. Micro USB was, at long last, adopted by the world mobile phone industry as the universal standard, thus eliminating the problem of everyone having 9 different mobile chargers, at home and in cars, gathering dust in the garage. This just appears to be Logitech aligning with the new standard for charger connectors.

Agree with this, can plug the remote and my mobile into the same cable. Logitech also provide a usb charging plug for the usb cable to go into to it is a permanant connection too.

[jonnboyy69]

Harmony 700......Omg..... Im prepared to spend weeks trying to persevere thru this setup minefield, but its becoming hopeless!.what a disaster this logitech software seems to be! ..... to set up devices and activities is reasonably simple however, here is where my problems begin aka (Sony Sync/and bravia tv- av selection). The remote attempts to select the correct av selection (eg; sky) however is too slow to select the choice and the tv just exits the av input menu before remote reaches its required selection!. Ive tried speeding up and slowing down command speeds without luck, this is also evident with my Sony all in one home theatre.

The "help" menu does remedy most issues however it does not remember the fixes it has suggested and made, therefore you have to constantly go thru same routine each time . The troubleshoot menu repeats itself endlessly and the extra activities you can add at start and end are pretty much useless fixes to my above problems.
Is it me expecting too much also thinking I could perform a "power up" required devices together from standby? the remote seems to assume they are already power on, the bravia tv will not do it despite multi attempts changing power settings, plus preventing devices powering off automatically when changing devices? aarrgghhh!

This was written under duress and needed to vent my frustrations lol.... i will return to fixing this mess over weekend and trawl the forum for further help.

[logiciel]

Originally Posted by jonnboyy69

tv just exits the av input menu before remote reaches its required selection

That indicates that you are not using Input Method 2, and as that is the one to use for most TVs, and is then much the most reliable, you need to check whether it is available for your model and if it is to apply it.
The default power settings are for activities to turn off unused devices and for devices to be off when not in use, and if you are using those, and have selected the correct power commands for your devices, you shouldn't have the power problems you describe.

[jonnboyy69]

Thanks for reply Logiciel, ive tried the input 2 method however the Bravia is still poor at responding quickly enough.Believe it or not it is a default input 1 method without options to customise. I shall however tinker with the delays etc on input 2 again today when i have more patience lol.
I guess i have to power on all devices manually prior to using the remote? i can also change all devices to "stay on" after the activities have finished yes? ...... im happy if they stay on as long as they dont power off when i change devices as has been previously.... mmmmmm apologies if ive understood incorrectly as ive just finished nightshift....zzzz

[logiciel]

OK then - let me know the full make and model number of the TV so that I can check on the Input Method - and you could take the powering out of the Harmony automatic system altogether but it would be better to get it working properly within it.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by Demon

3. It has adjustable inter-key delays and other advanced stuff, which is very handy with some devices

If you hold down the HELP button on the 700 for 5 seconds you enter the advanced menu where you select the device you want to adjust then you are given the option of adjusting the delays.

[jonnboyy69]

Thanks for tips guys,....logiceil- Tv: Bravia kdl40vxxx.....Theatre; Sony Davis . Sorted power off/on issues btw! ta.
Clearly, it appears the av switcher issue is because both the Bravia and the Davis (for my sound) do not have dedicated and direct 1 button commands to select desired av channel, thus the A/V selection on both Bravia and Davis is unfortunately a method 1 activity ie: one button function pressed many times, and thus the remote correctly tries to "scroll/step" thru inputs to reach its designated av channel. The problem is the remotey gets them wrong due to it not knowing which av input the tv and theatre were on origionally!
9 av inputs on bravia ; TV,PVR,DVD,AV3,HOMETHEATRE,PS3,SKY,360,PC.
6 on Davis; TV,SAT/CABLE,IMPORT,DVD,FM RADIO,AM RADIO

I guessing I could work round this problem by hard button programming an av selection toggle for the tv and hope the Davis automatically picks up the av channel and also changes sound output automatically thru its Sony Sync, or ill have to add another hard button for the toggle av option on that device too, meaning ill have to manually do this everytime i change devices....mmmmm.

Think ill have to purchase a newer tv and theatre system with the method 2 input enabled to allow direct 1 button commands......

thanks again for your help guys

[logiciel]

There isn't a Sony model kdl40vxxx.
The nearest in the Harmony database is kdl40v and that defaults to Input Method 2, so if you will give us the actual model number it is very likely that it too will default to Method 2.
That the TV itself does not have dedicated buttons for setting the inputs does not matter.
The point is that the Harmony database offers the better method for many TVs, including most Sonys.
Amplifiers and sound systems are even more likely to have separate input commands so again if you give us the full model number of yours we can check on that too.
One new point has come up that may be very relevant. Automatic systems within devices themselves, such as "Sony Sync", naturally conflict with the Harmony's system.

[jonnboyy69]

kdl40v4xxx..... apologies logiceil

[monksy74]

Originally Posted by Sandman

If you hold down the HELP button on the 700 for 5 seconds you enter the advanced menu where you select the device you want to adjust then you are given the option of adjusting the delays.

Never knew that. Any other models do the same?

Does it send any changes back up if you sync the remote (I'm guessing not).

[Broadsword]

Originally Posted by monksy74

Never knew that. Any other models do the same?

Does it send any changes back up if you sync the remote (I'm guessing not).

I can't actually think of any reason why you would need it to? As long as the remote has the correct delays the software wouldn't need to know. Plus I don't actually think the software for the 700 has all the usual delays in it anyway.

[logiciel]

Originally Posted by jonnboyy69

kdl40v4xxx..... apologies logiceil

That's OK, but the database still does not recognise it, so what model did you set it up as?
The alternative that the database offers has separate input commands for Analog, Digital, AV1-2-3, Component, HDMI1-2-3, DMPORT, PC. You said what devices are in some of the inputs, but didn't give the full list of input names. What are they, and how do they match up with that list for the alternative model?

[jonnboyy69]

Originally Posted by logiciel

That's OK, but the database still does not recognise it, so what model did you set it up as?

KDL40v4000.......Finally got it all sorted by systematically trying each of the four or five KDL4v varient's found on the database, oh and tinkering about with each until I found the nearest external inputs to match mine.
I also managed to do as you suggested Logiceil, by programming each input command via "method 2" and by programming each independantly to match the device seemed to work quickly and smoothly. I origionally didn't think the Bravia would understand the method 2 approach as its default setting kept choosing method 1, plus because the KDL4v remote has no dedicated labelled buttons and just the cyclic "input next" scroll menu.

Thankyou for about the 3rd time this month Logiceil

[logiciel]

That's perfectly OK, and you're always very welcome.
The KDL40V4000 defaults to Harmony Method 2 with commands for ATV, DTV, AV1-3,HDMI1-3, Component, PC.
As I said previously:
That the TV itself does not have dedicated buttons for setting the inputs does not matter.
The point is that the Harmony database offers the better method for many TVs, including most Sonys.

[fredsie]

Originally Posted by Broadsword

On my ONE remotes the sky box can react to favourite channels as quick as a flash and does not need any delay at all, in fact I turned the delay down to zero as it was taking too long to send the numbers.

Are you sure the remote has proper line of sight and it is only this that the sky box stumbles over?

Also when using the favourite channels function does it do the same thing?

Anyway, go into the sky device, then "troubleshoot" then "device responds to some commands far too much or not enough" and then reduce the setting to 0. From there you can change it higher if you need to.

The go back to the troubleshoot screen and more problems screen and select "Device doesn't receive every command correctly" and then "When commands are sent one after the ther..." and change the setting to say 50 and see if that helps, if not try increasing it. If 50 works then trying reducing it until it doesn't work so you have the best delay in there.

But as I said if you need a larger number in the last setting and it waits ages between sending the numbers it suggest a different issue really as all my sky boxes are virtually instant when sending favourite channel numbers.

Hope that helps anyway.

After some weeks of use I've come to the conclusion that it's not a timing issue at all. In fact I now reckon the 700 is just much more directional than my old 885. If I'm very careful to keep the remote pointing directly at the box it always works fine, even without any delay set. I just need to be a bit less lazy.

[scottie55]

Hi - any news on the extension to 8 devices for the 700?

On a related note, I read elsewhere that if you transfer from, say a 555, with more than 6 devices, these transfer successfully to a 700. Can anyone confirm this?

Either of these two being true might sway me.

[logiciel]

Logitech don't change things - if it's 5 or 6 now that's the way it will stay.
The 700 is a backward step from the 555, not an advance.

[scottie55]

Originally Posted by logiciel

Logitech don't change things - if it's 5 or 6 now that's the way it will stay.
The 700 is a backward step from the 555, not an advance.

Yes, I thought it sounded too good to be true - although it would be a sensible move IMHO. In some ways, yes, the 700 is a backward step from the 555, but I was hoping the build quality would be a bit better. I know you're a big One fan and I like the look of it, but I would miss the coloured keys just too much. I was hoping the 700 might just be the compromise I'm looking for.

[logiciel]

All I'd say about the One is that it's the natural progression from the 500 series - and that it was my way up from the 525.
The newer 600s and 700s are more of a sidestep, with the change of construction that I agree is probably better, but little more, and less in devices.
You can compare them all side by side here: Harmony Comparisons.
The colour buttons on the 900 aren't as good as my substitutes for them on the One - imho of course.

[scottie55]

OK, Logiciel - so where exactly do you place your colours?

[logiciel]

Some regular posters will have to look away at this point.
Green and Yellow are on the spare up/down toggle button, Red on Menu, Blue on Info, Info on Guide, Guide on Prev.
They're a compact grouping, like the adjacent navigation group, the volume up/down, and the channel up/down.
It doesn't matter about the buttons not being labelled as all buttons are easy to find without looking.
Actually the 900's dedicated colour buttons are not too bad - it's just that they're too small.