Help in setting up delays

MarkBR · 31-10-2009, 7:00 PM

Hi

I'm having a bit of trouble setting up my system with a Harmony (555) remote.

I'm using an energy-saving power socket, which can be configured to any remote signal for power on and power off. Into this power strip I have connected the TV, A/V Receiver, DVD etc (the PVR is connected to a permanently on socket). The idea is that to run any activity first the power switch is turned on, then all the devices and TV, and then the correct inputs etc. When powering down each device should turn itself off (to standby), and then the power switch cuts the power to everything. This should result in a saving of electricity over leaving everything on standby.

I've got this working by adjusting the timings and changing the order of devices, so that the power switch comes on first when starting, and turns off last when powering off.

The problem I have is that when powering up, the TV does not seem to get its PowerOn command and stays in standby after getting power from the power strip. There should therefore be a bigger delay between turning on the power strip and turning on the TV, but I can't seem to get this right.

The delay settings for the power strip device are:
PowerOn delay: 1500
Interkey delay: 500
Interdevice delay: 3500

The delay settings for the TV device are:
PowerOn delay: 3500
Interkey delay: 0
Input delay: 0
Interdevice delay: 100

I thought these delays should work (they have been increased steadily), but the TV still doesn't get the PowerOn command after the power strip turns it on to standby.

Has anyone any ideas?

Thanks
Mark

**logiciel** · 31-10-2009, 8:23 PM

These devices are never going to work 100% with the Harmony automatic power system, so all it can be is ideas, nothing definite.
Setting the strip as the first device to power on in activities is fine, but that does not guaranatee it's the last to power off.
Its Power-On and Inter-Key Delays won't do anything but it's Inter-Device ought to, so try some longer values of that.
The TV's Power-On is remarkably low, so its Inputs may not be set correctly until you lengthen it, though that doesn't affect the power problem.
You might be better simply starting off each viewing session by powering on the strip direct from Devices, and leaving it out of the Activities.

Broadsword · 31-10-2009, 8:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkBR

Hi

I'm having a bit of trouble setting up my system with a Harmony (555) remote.

I'm using an energy-saving power socket, which can be configured to any remote signal for power on and power off. Into this power strip I have connected the TV, A/V Receiver, DVD etc (the PVR is connected to a permanently on socket). The idea is that to run any activity first the power switch is turned on, then all the devices and TV, and then the correct inputs etc. When powering down each device should turn itself off (to standby), and then the power switch cuts the power to everything. This should result in a saving of electricity over leaving everything on standby.

I've got this working by adjusting the timings and changing the order of devices, so that the power switch comes on first when starting, and turns off last when powering off.

The problem I have is that when powering up, the TV does not seem to get its PowerOn command and stays in standby after getting power from the power strip. There should therefore be a bigger delay between turning on the power strip and turning on the TV, but I can't seem to get this right.

The delay settings for the power strip device are:
PowerOn delay: 1500
Interkey delay: 500
Interdevice delay: 3500

The delay settings for the TV device are:
PowerOn delay: 3500
Interkey delay: 0
Input delay: 0
Interdevice delay: 100

I thought these delays should work (they have been increased steadily), but the TV still doesn't get the PowerOn command after the power strip turns it on to standby.

Has anyone any ideas?

Thanks
Mark

Does your TV have a discrete power on command? Or are you using a power toggle?

If its discrete then you can add another "power on" command to the TV power settings. You can keep adding them until eventually your system sees one and powers on.

In theory the power strip should be the first thing to turn on so doesn't need a power on delay. All that is doing is waiting 1.5 seconds before it turns on the power strip, therefore as its first to turn on in all activities its just a redundant delay really. Drop that down to 0 and try again. If not keep increasing the tv power on delay until it eventually works. If it doesn't eventually work then you will have to try option 1.

**logiciel** · 31-10-2009, 8:34 PM

Neither the strip's nor the TV's power-on delay is going to affect it.
Those extra power commands would do it though if the other adjustments don't work, and you could do the extra commands as Additional When Activities Starts instead, and include IR delays.

Broadsword · 31-10-2009, 8:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by logiciel

These devices are never going to work 100% with the Harmony automatic power system, so all it can be is ideas, nothing definite.
Setting the strip as the first device to power on in activities is fine, but that does not guaranatee it's the last to power off.
Its Power-On and Inter-Key Delays won't do anything but it's Inter-Device ought to, so try some longer values of that.
The TV's Power-On is remarkably low, so its Inputs may not be set correctly until you lengthen it, though that doesn't affect the power problem.
You might be better simply starting off each viewing session by powering on the strip direct from Devices, and leaving it out of the Activities.

Good point about power down, it depends how it actually does that, some use a master device, such as the TV and when power goes to that it shuts down. That's fine if the TV is on in all activities, wouldn't work for listen to radio or play cd though. Or it could be a power off command.

So how does it power down?

Broadsword · 31-10-2009, 8:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by logiciel

Neither the strip's nor the TV's power-on delay is going to affect it.
Those extra power commands would do it though if the other adjustments don't work, and you could do the extra commands as Additional When Activities Starts instead, and include IR delays.

Why not? If the TV is not ready after a "hard power on" then it may not be ready to accpet commands and miss the power on command. The power on delay would give it more time before the remote sends the power on command.

You also need to be using discrete power on/offs for all devices.

**logiciel** · 31-10-2009, 8:44 PM

I meant that the TV's power-on delay can't affect the time it takes for IT to power on - it only affects the time from when it does power on to it being ready for another - typically input - command.
My other point was that you can't specify the power-off order, and that it does not necessarily reflect the power-on order, but your point - about the way it actually does it - is more relevant.

Broadsword · 31-10-2009, 8:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by logiciel

I meant that the TV's power-on delay can't affect the time it takes for IT to power on - it only affects the time from when it does power on to it being ready for another

So that means it could in theory be ignoring both the strip power on delay and the T's power on delay.

So just keep adding power on commands.

It really shouldn't be this taxing should it.

**logiciel** · 01-11-2009, 12:35 AM

Yes, the TV will ignore the strip's Power-On Delay and the TV's Power-On Delay doesn't come into the problem.
You're right again on both those counts, but these strips always cause problems, usually more then whatever benefits they bring.

MarkBR · 01-11-2009, 1:25 AM

Thanks everyone for your comments.

Unfortunately my LG TV does not seem to have separate PowerOn and PowerOff commands - despite these being present in the downloaded keys and Device menu, they just don't work. So no option to send repeated PowerOn commands to the TV

.

I've increased the interdevice delay on the power strip, and this now works intermittently. Need to experiment more with increasing this.

Incidentally I don't know if anyone else has one of these energy saving power strips - they were given away free by British Gas. They come with a remote sensor, but no remote - the idea is you "teach" it PowerOn and PowerOff with any commands from any remote. It sounds good, but in practice you can't just use obscure commands from any of your devices as these would still affect the device if on. Had to use commands from a different make remote/TV in another room so as not to clash!

I've set up the '*' key in all Activities as the TV PowerToggle, so in case the TV doesn't come on the wife can just turn it on with this, which I think is neater than taking the Power out of all Activities and having to use the Device menu first to turn all on, then last to turn all off. It's quite neat when it works!

**logiciel** · 01-11-2009, 3:10 PM

Yes, that's the sort of solution that people usually come up with, to keep the strip and use as much as possible of the Harmony's switching.
For the strip's remote command you could of course simply add a device that you don't have, as long as you haven't exceeded the Harmony's capacity.

MarkBR · 01-11-2009, 3:45 PM

Indeed, it's all working now (most of the time!). I did set up a device for the power strip (a 'home automation' type in Harmony-speak), with just two commands - PowerOn and PowerOff. It does show just how flexible and useful the Harmony approach is.

M.

**logiciel** · 01-11-2009, 5:09 PM

Good to know it's working as well as it can.

MarkBR · 03-11-2009, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by logiciel

You're right again on both those counts, but these strips always cause problems, usually more then whatever benefits they bring.

I think those words were prophetic!

Darn thing won't power up or power down at the start or end of sessions. Using Help doesn't work, as the strip doesn't respond to repeated commands to turn on or off. The odd thing is that on the Device menu, selecting it and using the PowerOn and PowerOff commands on that menu does work!!

How can the remote command codes on the Device menu be different to those used in the Activity menu?

Getting close to chucking the thing out!!

**logiciel** · 03-11-2009, 11:31 AM

So you have the command for the strip on the * key in the Activities which doesn't work now, and the same command on a button in Devices and that does work?

MarkBR · 03-11-2009, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by logiciel

So you have the command for the strip on the * key in the Activities which doesn't work now, and the same command on a button in Devices and that does work?

Not quite - the * is for the TV power on. But the Activities that should turn on the strip don't, but the PowerOn button on Devices does. Likewise for PowerOff. It did all work, and now for some reason doesn't.

**logiciel** · 03-11-2009, 1:01 PM

OK, my misunderstanding.
So how ARE the Activities meant to turn the strip on - where in them is that PowerOn command that works in Devices?

MarkBR · 03-11-2009, 2:03 PM

I need to double check when I get home, but I think I did it as a device that appears in all the Activities as having to be ON. Can't remember exactly how I did that, except it did work perfectly with the exception of the delay to the TV which, with your help, I did solve.

I thought perhaps the actual key learning for PowerOn and PowerOff had gone wrong, so I re-taught the Harmony those. Since they work in Devices, it can't be that.

MarkBR · 03-11-2009, 2:55 PM

I've just reviewed the set up (isn't it wonderful that you can log in to your Harmony account and check configuration from anywhere in the world!). In each Activity I've checked the strip as a device used in the Activity; the summary for each Activity shows it as a device that needs to be on. I've also checked the order of power up, and made that first.

I did notice a few oddities which I've corrected, so will update the remote tonight and try it again.

**logiciel** · 03-11-2009, 5:27 PM

OK then, let us know after the try.
And good to hear someone likes the idea of accessing the account - so many complain of it not being on their own computer!

MarkBR · 03-11-2009, 10:17 PM

Hmmm, it doesn't work. I don't get it - when I review each activity, at the end it clearly shows that the strip should be on when the activity starts. And yet now it's not doing it - given that the Device commands to turn it on and off work, I can only assume its not sending the on and off commands within Activities. But why? It knows the strip is required for every activity, it knows it should be on, and it used to work ok. Why not now?

All I can think to do is to set explicit ON commands in every activity, but since it won't allow this to be first in the activity (typically TV and amp are first) then for the first turn on of a session the commands before it (ie turn on TV and amp) won't work since they won't have power until the strip is on.

Really tempted to dump the strip, but I'm really annoyed I don't understand why it doesn't work now when it did earlier!!

**logiciel** · 04-11-2009, 12:29 AM

You haven't done something like setting it to be "always on" have you?
It only needs to be powered on once so why not do that when you first start a session, by an Activity of its own, or direct from devices where you know it works?

MarkBR · 04-11-2009, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by logiciel

You haven't done something like setting it to be "always on" have you?
It only needs to be powered on once so why not do that when you first start a session, by an Activity of its own, or direct from devices where you know it works?

No, definitely set to be off when not required.

I'll have to do as you suggest and set up an Activity for it, and manually turn it on and off. Annoying, as it did work and also have to explain how to do this to the wife!

MarkBR · 04-11-2009, 2:33 PM

Last question on this before I go mad ...

Looking at the Logitech forums it would appear others have had similar problems, whereby commands work in the Device menu but the same commands don't work in Activities. This sounds like a bug. I'll email Logitech when I can find my remote's serial number, but I wonder if anyone else has come across this?

Broadsword · 04-11-2009, 3:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkBR

Last question on this before I go mad ...

Looking at the Logitech forums it would appear others have had similar problems, whereby commands work in the Device menu but the same commands don't work in Activities. This sounds like a bug. I'll email Logitech when I can find my remote's serial number, but I wonder if anyone else has come across this?

It could still be a delay problem. Makes sense in that the device key press doesn't have to worry about other devices, power delays, input delays etc. I can't work out why in my head as it should be the first signal sent but it could be.

Maybe it could be a repeats problem, run troubleshooting on the device and select my device doesn't respond sometimes and see what value its on.

You could also try adding a simple activity that just turns on the strip and see if that works, then add another device and see if it works, and keep adding until it doesn't?

MarkBR · 04-11-2009, 4:13 PM

Thanks Broadsword.

I've run the troubleshooting and everything looks right - the Watch TV activity for example lists the devices that should be on, and the power strip is the first item there. It could be the delays, but as you say its the first thing to go on so hard to see how any following delays could stop it going on.

I have created an Activity for just this device, and will test it tonight. Good idea to add devices gradually and see if I can build up a working activity. These things take so long to test, and powering all the equipment on and off repeatedly can't do them any good!!

Broadsword · 04-11-2009, 4:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkBR

Thanks Broadsword.

I've run the troubleshooting and everything looks right - the Watch TV activity for example lists the devices that should be on, and the power strip is the first item there. It could be the delays, but as you say its the first thing to go on so hard to see how any following delays could stop it going on.

I have created an Activity for just this device, and will test it tonight. Good idea to add devices gradually and see if I can build up a working activity. These things take so long to test, and powering all the equipment on and off repeatedly can't do them any good!!

What level was the repeats on when you go into my device doesn't always respond? It could be as simple as that. It has a range of 1 to 5, decrease it if it responds to much and increase it if it doesn't respond enough. Run the troubleshoot on the device itself.

MarkBR · 04-11-2009, 4:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broadsword

What level was the repeats on when you go into my device doesn't always respond? It could be as simple as that. It has a range of 1 to 5, decrease it if it responds to much and increase it if it doesn't respond enough. Run the troubleshoot on the device itself.

Ahh, I see what you mean now - I was running the troubleshoot option where you say it's not switching on and off correctly, so it takes you the setup of the device again!

The repeats were on level 3. I've upped it to 5, and will try it out tonight.

Thanks for your help on this - appreciated!

**logiciel** · 04-11-2009, 9:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkBR

Looking at the Logitech forums it would appear others have had similar problems, whereby commands work in the Device menu but the same commands don't work in Activities. This sounds like a bug.

Experience says it's more likely to be user error.

Also as you once had it working that's another suggestion of user error.

MarkBR · 04-11-2009, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by logiciel

Experience says it's more likely to be user error.

Also as you once had it working that's another suggestion of user error.

I agree ... but ... I can't get it working again! I've created an Activity for just the power strip, which should switch it on when entering it, but doesn't. The buttons to turn it on and off within the Activity do work however! Hmmm...