[siblades]

Hi.
I am looking to get a freeview box that can do the following things, but don't want to pay through the roof:
1. Has HDMI connectivity (720p and 1080i) but doesn't have to be HD, would just like it to upscale (I'm sick of the interference I get when using a freeview box connected via RGB).
2. Has an easy to use interface and guide.
3. Is able to record channels like Sky+ (Freeview+ I believe?)
4. Has a planner/archive to show you everything that has recorded/is set to be recorded.
5. Has a series link option (that doesn't just go by what time the programme is meant to be on i.e. will know if the programme over-runs or is delayed)
6. Pause and rewind live TV.
7. Is generally a respectable model that isn't going to die on me after 2 months.

Can anyone suggest or recommend a decent freeview box for me based on the above? Not necessarily after a big brand name like Sony etc, just something that is good quality. I was thinking of just going with PlayTV for the PS3 but I am put off by the fact that you have to have your PS3 turned on to watch it, and also it has no series link function.

Many thanks in advance

[fernandez]

Something like this perhaps?

Buy Humax PVR-9300T 320GB Digital TV Recorder. at Argos.co.uk - Your Online Shop for .

See

Freeview - Home / Products / Digital TV Recorders / Hard Drive Recorders

There is no FreeviewHD yet or receivers available

[siblades]

Originally Posted by fernandez

Something like this perhaps?

Buy Humax PVR-9300T 320GB Digital TV Recorder. at Argos.co.uk - Your Online Shop for .

See

Freeview - Home / Products / Digital TV Recorders / Hard Drive Recorders

There is no FreeviewHD yet or receivers available

Looks pretty good. Does anyone own it and can give any feedback?
I have also found this:
Wharfedale 160 DTR HDMI Digital Video Recorder Description - eXpansys UK
Looks pretty good but it's only £75 which makes me think it might not be top quality. Does anyone have this model and can give any feedback?

[Alan CD]

Hi

I've been doing research on purchasing a PVR and I have similar requirements as you.

My choice is the Humax 9300T PVR - you could check that one out.

Alan

[grahamlthompson]

Originally Posted by siblades

Hi.
1. Has HDMI connectivity (720p and 1080i) but doesn't have to be HD, would just like it to upscale (I'm sick of the interference I get when using a freeview box connected via RGB).

Interference over RGB is most likely a signal problem (aerial) and using hdmi won't make any difference. Freeview boxes offering scaling to hdmi have cheap scalers compared to the better TV's. Connecting via RGB and thus using the the TV's scaler will almost always give the best pictures as a search of this and other forums will reveal. If you want my advice ignore the option of scaling up to hdmi it's generally a waste of money. In your case before you do anything you need to check your signal quality

[siblades]

Originally Posted by grahamlthompson

Interference over RGB is most likely a signal problem (aerial) and using hdmi won't make any difference. Freeview boxes offering scaling to hdmi have cheap scalers compared to the better TV's. Connecting via RGB and thus using the the TV's scaler will almost always give the best pictures as a search of this and other forums will reveal. If you want my advice ignore the option of scaling up to hdmi it's generally a waste of money. In your case before you do anything you need to check your signal quality

My freeview box is telling me I have 100% full signal. When we used to have Sky TV, the picture was crap over RGB too.
I tried my friends PlayTV over HDMI and the picture quality was awesome.
So in my case it is not the signal strength that is the issue, it's the fact that things look crap via RGB on both my HDTVs (one is LG and one is Mirai).

So what would people recomend between the
Wharfedale 160 DTR HDMI Digital Video Recorder Description - eXpansys UK for £75
and the
Buy Humax PVR-9300T 320GB Digital TV Recorder. at Argos.co.uk - Your Online Shop for . for £200 quid.
I have read that the fan noise is almost unbearable on the Humax, but have not been able to find any solid reviews for the Wharfedale.
Anyone got any opinions?

[grahamlthompson]

Originally Posted by siblades

My freeview box is telling me I have 100% full signal. When we used to have Sky TV, the picture was crap over RGB too.
I tried my friends PlayTV over HDMI and the picture quality was awesome.
So in my case it is not the signal strength that is the issue, it's the fact that things look crap via RGB on both my HDTVs (one is LG and one is Mirai).

So what would people recomend between the
Wharfedale 160 DTR HDMI Digital Video Recorder Description - eXpansys UK for £75
and the
Buy Humax PVR-9300T 320GB Digital TV Recorder. at Argos.co.uk - Your Online Shop for . for £200 quid.
I have read that the fan noise is almost unbearable on the Humax, but have not been able to find any solid reviews for the Wharfedale.
Anyone got any opinions?

First of all it's very unusuall to get a poor picture from RGB. Have you tried a different scart lead and check that the TV scart you are using is RGB capable (many are not). If by interference you mean a ghost picture, that's caused by poor quality badly screened scart cables. (it's cross talk from the TV video output). Replacing this with a scart lead with the conductors individually screened will solve this. Of the two pvr's I would buy the Hummy and the fan noise is now resolved by a firmware update which stops the fan unless it's needed. Under normal conditions the fan is unlikely to ever run

[Andy98765]

"the picture was crap over RGB too" well that is usually because a "Crap" scart cable is being used.
A "Gold" Scart lead from a supermarket does not mean you have a good connection. Asda even sell "Gold" Scart leads for £3.
In the case of a SKY box and to a certain extent a freeview box so many people have them set up wrong in the first place.
I have seen loads of people leave the setting as 4:3 when it should be 16:9.
The Scart is connected a Scart socket on the Tv that is not RGB enabled, not all are.
In the case of SKY again many people leave the box on PAL (this is composite = worse known connection to man), when it should be RGB.
Look for a Thor Scart cable at least for a better picture.
If the picture breaks up then no matter what the signal quality % says it is a transmission/aerial issue.

[siblades]

Thanks grahamlthompson and andy98765 for the information
How do I find out if the scart ports on my TVs are RGB enabled?
Regarding Sky, I had it set to RGB not PAL, and on my freeview box it is set to RGB and 16:9.
I guess it must either be the cables that I am using (the standard ones that came with the boxes) or the scart ports on my TVs are not RGB enabled.
To give an example of the picture quality:
When watching a movie on my PS3 connected via HDMI, the black bars at the top of the screen are a really really deep shiney black (if that makes sense?) Basically, it looks amazing and how I would expect it to look.
Whan watching a movie via freeview connected via scart, the black bars are faded and are on the verge of being dark grey rather than black, so it looks rubbish.
What do you suggest? Get a better scart cable?
Thanks again for your advice, you obviously know what you're talking about whereas I don't have a clue

[Andy98765]

How do I find out if the scart ports on my TVs are RGB enabled?
In your TV manual.

I guess it must either be the cables that I am using (the standard ones that came with the boxes) or the scart ports on my TVs are not RGB enabled.
The first thing I do when getting a new DVD player or STB out of it's container is connect up with a quality Scart cable the one that comes in the box stays there and ends up in the bin.

To give an example of the picture quality:
When watching a movie on my PS3 connected via HDMI, the black bars at the top of the screen are a really really deep shiney black (if that makes sense?).
It is called HD and is not a SD signal.

Whan watching a movie via freeview connected via scart, the black bars are faded and are on the verge of being dark grey rather than black.
What do you suggest? Get a better scart cable?
I tend to use QED cables for connection but many people use Thor cables and get good results.

Thor Scart to Scart Lead 1.5m Only £13.69 at TVCables

You have not mentioned your TV make and model? What is it and does it have built in freeview, if so what is the picture like?

[siblades]

Originally Posted by Andy98765

How do I find out if the scart ports on my TVs are RGB enabled?
In your TV manual.

I guess it must either be the cables that I am using (the standard ones that came with the boxes) or the scart ports on my TVs are not RGB enabled.
The first thing I do when getting a new DVD player or STB out of it's container is connect up with a quality Scart cable the one that comes in the box stays there and ends up in the bin.

To give an example of the picture quality:
When watching a movie on my PS3 connected via HDMI, the black bars at the top of the screen are a really really deep shiney black (if that makes sense?).
It is called HD and is not a SD signal.

Whan watching a movie via freeview connected via scart, the black bars are faded and are on the verge of being dark grey rather than black.
What do you suggest? Get a better scart cable?
I tend to use QED cables for connection but many people use Thor cables and get good results.

Thor Scart to Scart Lead 1.5m Only £13.69 at TVCables

You have not mentioned your TV make and model? What is it and does it have built in freeview, if so what is the picture like?

32" Mirai DTL-632v200 HD lcd and 22" LG LS4R HD lcd. Both have the same problems when watching freeview/sky via scart - rubbish and faded picture. Neither has built in freeview.

Think I might just buy the Humax PVR-9300T because I am after a freeview recorder, and connecting it via HDMI would deffinately solve the picture problem. Or should I just get PlayTV for my PS3?

[LV426]

Originally Posted by Andy98765

When watching a movie on my PS3 connected via HDMI, the black bars at the top of the screen are a really really deep shiney black (if that makes sense?).

That's probably nothing more or less than a matter of adjusting the brightness level for the RGB input.

In general a SCART RGB interface will offer results which will be virtually if not absolutely indistinguishable from HDMI - assuming the equipment is properly set up in either case. And, as already said, upscaling inside the source box isn't an assured route to a better image. Scalers in TVs are usually fairly competent and, all other things being equal, scaling in the TV is the best place to do it.

This seems to be more about PVRs so I'm moving it to the PVRs forum.

[Alan CD]

Hi

HDMI offers a much better quality picture and sound than SCART does.

If the HDMI interface is of poor construction (ie uses inferior components) then there might not be much of a difference between HDMI and SCART.

However, this is unlikely.

Alan

[siblades]

Originally Posted by Alan CD

Hi

HDMI offers a much better quality picture and sound than SCART does.

If the HDMI interface is of poor construction (ie uses inferior components) then there might not be much of a difference between HDMI and SCART.

However, this is unlikely.

Alan

That's what I thought at first, but other people on here seem to suggest otherwise

[Alan CD]

The 9300T HDMI is not full-blown 1080p unfortunately, maybe that's what they are talking about.

[siblades]

Originally Posted by Alan CD

The 9300T HDMI is not full-blown 1080p unfortunately, maybe that's what they are talking about.

Maybe. It doesn't matter anyway because my TVs can only go up to 1080i, and I only use 720p (think it looks better than 1080i)

[grahamlthompson]

Originally Posted by Alan CD

Hi

HDMI offers a much better quality picture and sound than SCART does.


Alan

Not true at all HDMI gives good HD pictures, but many TV's give a better picture using component HD. Unless the scaler used is exceptionally good SD pictures are usually best over analogue RGB or component connections. I know in theory the digital connection should be best it's frequently not. The best HD pictures from my Foxsat HD was over component until it was disabled. HDMI from the same box simply did not have the same bite. My computer has a dual output graphics card feeding two monitors one using digital (DVI - which is identical to HDMI without sound) and analogue (XVGA) and the picture is identical even showing a high res photo spread over both monitors). As for sound the hdmi carries the same digital sound as comes from the optical S/Pdif but is totally wasted by the TV digital to analogue audio converters and the very poor internal speakers. HDMI it is true can carry the latest multichannel sound from Blue Ray Discs and S/Pdif best quality for multichannel sound is DTS 5.1. But as we are discussing broadcast audio that's irrelevant in this case. In any case all sound transmitted by TV is of a lesser quality than PCM sound from a CD due to the extra compression used. Analogue TV in fact offers the highest quality stereo broadcast digital audio (NICAM)

[Andy98765]

Originally Posted by Alan CD

Hi

HDMI offers a much better quality picture and sound than SCART does.

Alan

????????

We went from a SKY+ box setup correctly with a QED Scart cable to a SKYHD box and the picture quality between the two was nothing. Both were very good considering everything on SD channels.
The advantage HDMi has is good quality can be achieved with a fairly inexpensive cable, that can not be said for SCART cables.

[grahamlthompson]

Originally Posted by siblades

Maybe. It doesn't matter anyway because my TVs can only go up to 1080i, and I only use 720p (think it looks better than 1080i)

It will do if your TV is HD ready and has a vertical resolution of around 768 pixels as less scaling is required to match your screen

[Alan CD]

Hi Graham & Andy

I can only make subjective observations based on my experiences like you do.

IMO HDMI is superior to SCART in all cases viewing SD.

Alan

[LV426]

The most likely reason for substantial difference between RGB SCART and HDMI is either
- differing capabilities of the equipment, or, more probably
- differing user setup values (one or other not optimised) of values like brightness and contrast and/or detail enhancers on vs off etc... or, more probably
- RGB wasn't actually RGB but was composite video, caused by any one or more of the five necessary factors not being correct

[siblades]

OK so I have looked in the manual for my Mirai 32" DTL-632v200 LCD HDTV and it states that both scart ports are RGB enabled.
However, when I go into my freeview box settings I can change between RGB and CVBS (not too sure what this is, i'm guessing composite), and I can see no picture quality between the 2 whatsoever (which would suggest that the scart ports are not RGB enabled. I have looked to see if there is a way to manually turn on RGB through the sockets but cannot find anything).
So I am REALLY hoping that the problem is because of the scart cable I am using (the one that came with the £15 freeview box from Tesco).
So I have gone ahead and ordered:
Thor Scart to Scart Lead 1.5m Only £13.69 at TVCables

I will post back when I receive the cable. If it makes no difference then it must mean that the scart ports on my TV aren't actually RGB enabled and then I am going to be really stuck untill I decide on PlayTV or the Humax!

[Alan CD]

Hi

You're right - it's composite: CVBS = Composite Video Blanking and Sync. I think it has something to do with the yellow lead on composite. Don't use it as RGB should be better.

If the TV manual states the SCARTs are RGB then take it as read and, as you say, the problem hopefully lies with the old SCART lead.

All the best
Alan

[siblades]

Originally Posted by Alan CD

Hi

You're right - it's composite: CVBS = Composite Video Blanking and Sync. I think it has something to do with the yellow lead on composite. Don't use it as RGB should be better.

If the TV manual states the SCARTs are RGB then take it as read and, as you say, the problem hopefully lies with the old SCART lead.

All the best
Alan

Cheers mate, will report back when I have tested the new cable. Fingers crossed

[siblades]

Ok so got the new scart cable today. First thing I noticed when I plugged it in was that it now says "RGB" in the top corner of the TV. So that means I have been watching in composite all this time with the old cable!! Strange though because I thought all scart cables were RGB enabled....obviously not.
The difference with the new cable is very noticable. NO ghosting at all now, NO interference (wavy lines etc) on black backgrounds now. Black backgrounds look more deep and black rather than drak grey.
Overall I'm really impressed, but the colours still look a bit dull even after playing with contrast/brightness etc (nowhere near as bad as they were with the old cable). Maybe that's just because it is standard def TV, and that is the way it looks.
My friend's PlayTV over HDMI definately looked better on my tv than my freeview box using this new Thor scart cable, but I am happy with it until I get the Humax in a few months (which I will connect via HDMI).

[Alan CD]

Hi

Well done! The next stage is to fix the 'dull' picture.

I don't know if you know this trick: remove all colour from the picture, adjust the black & white picture until it looks good, then bring back the colour until peoples faces look as natural as possible.

The hardest bit on any colout TV is skin tone - if you get that right everything else falls into place!

Alan

[siblades]

Originally Posted by Alan CD

Hi

Well done! The next stage is to fix the 'dull' picture.

I don't know if you know this trick: remove all colour from the picture, adjust the black & white picture until it looks good, then bring back the colour until peoples faces look as natural as possible.

The hardest bit on any colout TV is skin tone - if you get that right everything else falls into place!

Alan

What setting "removes" colour? I have contrast, brightness and saturation. When I have removed the colour, what settings do I play around with to make the black and white picture look good? Sorry I'm rubbish at all this stuff.

[Alan CD]

Originally Posted by siblades

What setting "removes" colour? I have contrast, brightness and saturation. When I have removed the colour, what settings do I play around with to make the black and white picture look good? Sorry I'm rubbish at all this stuff.

I am concerned you can only find three settings on your TV, there must be more! Dig out the manual and have a look.

If you find the colour setting turn it down to zero to give a black & white picture, then adjust the contrast and brightness to give a balanced and natural-looking picture.

Finally turn the colour back up in stages to give (again) a natural looking picture.

If you are very uncertain about changing settings please ignore the above - better to be safe than sorry!

Alan

[siblades]

There are loads of other advanced settings but contrast, brightness and saturation are the 3 main ones. There is no setting called "colour" but I have a feeling saturation is the same thing because when I turn that all the way down the picture turns black and white. Will have a go at what you suggested and report back. Cheers