[tryingtimes]

Hi all
I can't get Freeview where I live, but my parents are facing analogue switch off very soon.
They need 2 dual-tuner PVRs - one for living room and one for bedroom.

They are in their seventies so clarity, simplicity and reliability outweigh tech features.

My only frame of reference is SKY+ and that would be fine in terms of usability. It's very clean and clear.

I would install and show them how to use it, but I don't live close to them to offer constant help.

Any recommendations?

Cheers
tt

[krlock3]

bump! i have the same question!

[tryingtimes]

Originally Posted by krlock3

bump! i have the same question!

I've shortlisted the Humax 9300T, but to be honest, I don't know how simple it's going to be. Hopefully it's as easy as SKY+.

[creddish]

Originally Posted by tryingtimes

I've shortlisted the Humax 9300T, but to be honest, I don't know how simple it's going to be. Hopefully it's as easy as SKY+.

The Humax PVRs are not the easiest PVR to learn to use. Some of the commonly used Remote buttons are located under a sliding flap (which can be pulled off) which hides some very small buttons with minuscule icons identifying them. The Humax is very fast to respond once you get used to it.

The Vestel PVRs (sold under various brands) are much easier to learn to use with direct single button access to the most used functions. They also has useful prompts at the bottom of most screens illustrating actions available.
The response of the Vestel PVRs is not as slick as the Humax and on the latest Series Record models noticeably slow if a significant number of Timer events are set.

The Vestel PVRs do a better job Freeview+ Accurate Recording but the Humax does Series Record better.

All above in my opinion of course.

Colin

[madsod]

humax my 8 year can use it and the wife so its eazy

[tryingtimes]

Originally Posted by madsod

humax my 8 year can use it and the wife so its eazy

Thanks madsod. Do you agree that the remote is fiddly and that important buttons are under a flap?

[creddish]

Originally Posted by madsod

humax my 8 year can use it and the wife so its eazy

8 year olds are very bright. My 3 year old grandson is far more competent at driving my PVR than my wife is. Clarity and simplicity were included in the OPs requirements. Even if you can remember what those icons on the buttons under the flap mean clarity does not apply to them IMO.

Colin

[clemenzina]

You have to have used a Vestel to appreciate how sensible their remote is compared to Humax's.

If you don't need bells and whistles and you don't need to set long/repeated series (like soaps) to record, Vestel wins. I don't find it difficult to look ahead and set recordings manually in the Vestel's EPG, which is also better than Humax's in that you don't have to leave the EPG to see individual programme info.

clemenzina

[creddish]

Originally Posted by clemenzina

You have to have used a Vestel to appreciate how sensible their remote is compared to Humax's.

If you don't need bells and whistles and you don't need to set long/repeated series (like soaps) to record, Vestel wins. I don't find it difficult to look ahead and set recordings manually in the Vestel's EPG, which is also better than Humax's in that you don't have to leave the EPG to see individual programme info.

clemenzina

You can access Info in the Humax EPG. I think you may be thinking of the Playlist where you have to start Playback of a recording before you can access Info. You can access Info on recordings in the Recorded Programmes list without starting Playback.

Colin

[krlock3]

i havent heard of vestel and on amazon they have no vestel products. as i would like to order online from someone like amazon, guess i have to go the humax route.

[tryingtimes]

Originally Posted by krlock3

i havent heard of vestel and on amazon they have no vestel products. as i would like to order online from someone like amazon, guess i have to go the humax route.

I think the Vestel units are rebranded as various makes.
A quick search came back with Techwood, Digihome, Goodmans, Bush, Alba, Cabot.
God knows how you make sure you get the model you're after though.

[tryingtimes]

Does anyone know how the Topfield machines compare in terms of 'ease of use'?

[nvingo]

..........Hitachi, Sharp, Wharfedale.

A few "model numbers" are re-used or very similar amongst different hardware versions.
If you can access the packaging at the time of purchase the firmware version is displayed on a sticker and knowing what features/bugs each version has by searching on these forums for relevant reports is probably the best information you can find.

[DerekR]

Bump.

Any updates please on the last three posts. I'm also in the market now with similar (geriatric) constraints.

[downerd]

Personally, I would recommend the Humax. I have owned mine for 2 years and I found it easy to learn how to use. It compares well with Sky+. The 'buttons under the flap' issue is a red herring since you can easily manage without using them for normal use. The only one I use regularly is the 'list recorded items', but this feature is also available under a menu - like sky+...


The other good feature is the seach function within the guide. This allows a search by word or part of word - something sadly lacking from Sky...

The most important 'ease of use' feature is reliability. My Humax has been 100% reliable and also the software has been updated several times (over the air, with no problems), meaning the machine has kept up to date with new features such as series link etc.

When I bought mine I also looked at Topfield although I thought those machines were more complex...

In my opinion the other machines do not compare well in terms of build quality and update-ability (if there is such a word!).

Hope this helps.

[clemenzina]

Originally Posted by downerd

The 'buttons under the flap' issue is a red herring since you can easily manage without using them for normal use.

There are picture search buttons under that damn flap that I use quite a lot, can't remember what else as it's some time since I tried it out and rejected it. Also, in the EPG if you press a button to expand individual programme info it completely obliterates the EPG (I think creddish misunderstood my 'complaint' above, as well he might, it being badly worded).

In Playlist (Library) no programme info is available unless you start playing the recording Unbelievable but true.

Another no-no is the Humax's unreliability in the 'accurate recording' dept, it frequently misses the start of programmes by one to several minutes - unless there's been a fix that I haven't heard about.

Build quality and picture are good though.

Having said all that, there's not much stock left in the shops of Vestel models, and it looks as though they are not going to be developed/improved for the future based on the user-friendly model I've been using, I dread having to get a new PVR with what's currently available.

Just thinking, the Daewoo 9502/3/4 (according to disc size) had its fans, although there was a batch with poor (tinny) sound. Good place for individual PVR brands is Personal Video Recorders - Digital Spy Forums

clemenzina

[creddish]

Originally Posted by clemenzina

There are picture search buttons under that damn flap that I use quite a lot, can't remember what else as it's some time since I tried it out and rejected it. Also, in the EPG if you press a button to expand individual programme info it completely obliterates the EPG (I think creddish misunderstood my 'complaint' above, as well he might, it being badly worded).

clemenzina

Yes I think I did. In fact I'm still not sure I understand your original comment about "info". Were you alluding to your point about the Info screen obliterating the EPG?

To add to your other criticism's of the Humax Remote and the user interface the location of the Skip buttons under the flap is another one. Skip is the most used button on my PVRs evidenced by the fading of the markings on the Skip buttons on my Vestel. Another niggle is the lack of easy access to free disk space info on the screens where it is needed (e.g. Recordings List and EPG). You have to navigate through the Menu system to get that info. But the worst niggle of all on the Humax is that if you accidentally press the Play button whilst the Timebar is still displayed during Playback you get dumped back at the start of the Recording. In most cases you press Play to erm... continue Playing but in the case of when you use the slider to navigate the Timebar you have to press OK instead to resume Play. I've lost count of the number of times I've pressed the wrong button.

Having said all the above if you persevere and learn how to use the Humax then it is quite nice to use. In fact I prefer it to the Vestels not least because the Humax responds much quicker to commands notably the time to delete recordings which is aided by a "marker" button to enable batch deletion. But if user friendliness is the prime requirement as per the thread title then the Vestels are a better choice than the Humax IMO.

Colin

Originally Posted by tryingtimes

Does anyone know how the Topfield machines compare in terms of 'ease of use'?

The TF5800T is Bloody Awful to use.

I have had it for nearly 3 years. Its a brill box for those who are technically minded.

Mine has five or six TAPs (Topfield application programes) loaded which I downloaded from the Toppy site and are free. BUT I think its JAGSepg that keeps expiring, and I have to reload the latest copy, which is a pain. - I guess I could pay to stop this.

Partly due to the machine not being menu driven and partly due to the TAPs which can change the remote buttons function, it can be tricky to drive - until you understand/get used to it.

However for a non-techie OAP this makes the machine virtually unusable.

Apart from that, its a brilliant box.
- does all that I could want
- pads timers to ensure no missing start/end.
- easy series link
- good and clear ( & configurable) epg screens
- good and clear ( & configurable) library screens
- no fan noise
- no lockups (but I do have it on a timer that switches it off and on once a day for five mins (about 6:00 am) - learnt that one from having a Tivo and Virgin Cable)
- has recorded absolutely everything I've asked it to, unless it ran out of disk space.
- no hard disk problems
- never lost a recording.


Functionality 10/10
Build quality 10/10
Ease of use 5/10

Value for money 5 to 8/10 - there are many cheaper/bigger boxes out there. Many of which claim to be as functionally good, but are they ? and are they as reliable?

[clemenzina]

Originally Posted by creddish

If you persevere and learn how to use the Humax then it is quite nice to use.

(As you know but others don't) I had paid £227 for a new 320gb model and therefore was under the cosh to decide whether to keep or return for full refund within the "rules" Had it been a £100 refurb it would have been a different story, but I think that my experience is relevant for "non-techie mums" and the like

Yes, Colin, I remember now, the Skip button put the tin hat on it And I was so angry that Humax persisted in shipping their PVRs with the same remote control over years and years, model after model It was almost a case of cutting off my nose to spite my face

Merry Christmas all!

clemenzina

[LV426]

Originally Posted by lamkida

The TF5800T is Bloody Awful to use....for a non-techie OAP this makes the machine virtually unusable....Apart from that, its a brilliant box.....

But I guess what you can't easily do, is evaluate the box in its vanilla state. By your own admission, you have added many TAPs and, whist, for the technicially savvy, this might be a "fun" thing to do - even useful - it would be quite WRONG for anyone to go away reading this and thinking that you MUST use these TAPs - warts and all.

Perhaps a better view might be obtained from someone who has no wish to tinker with the Topfield - what is it like "out of the box"?

[DerekR]

Thanks. Is this the one refered to?

Topfield TF5800 PVR

Is this a fair price considering?

The spec says 265mm deep. Presumeably this is the case size. Can someone please measure the actual working depth inc cables and how far back from the front edge are the front feet? Don't want it falling off the shelf do I?

[clemenzina]

Originally Posted by LV426

Perhaps a better view might be obtained from someone who has no wish to tinker with the Topfield - what is it like "out of the box"?

I haven't had a Toppy but when I was researching a new PVR I was given to understand that certain TAPS were almost essential in order to make it easier to use and/or give it a better interface.

clemenzina

[The DWP]

I bought a 9300T to give to the In-Laws as a Christmas present and one for us to use to get a bit more recording time (Digifusion is limited to 200GB by the chipset).

I must say that after the Digifusion, the Humax is extremely difficult and awful to use. The menu system and remote on the Digifusion is very simple and intuitive, the Humax is the compete opposite. So much so, that I am going to wipe the HDD on one of the Digifusion boxes and give that to the In-Laws. I really don't think they could cope with the Humax's complexity, they have trouble with a DVD recorder!

There are two probems with the Digifusion, they are not completely reliable, and they cannot be bought new anywhere, otherwise I would buy another. The poor reliability, and the need to re-boot occasionally will be tricky for the In-Laws, but much less tricky than the Humax.

If only someone made a Humax, with the Digifusion remote and user interface, with a 500GB HDD, they would clean up!

P.S. If you think a Humax fan is noisy, you should hear a Digifusion! I've changed the fans on mine, and the Humax Firmware update has quietened that down a lot, as well.

[downerd]

Originally Posted by DWP Industries

I must say that after the Digifusion, the Humax is extremely difficult and awful to use.

Can you explain this 'complexity' you see in the Humax?

It seems very straightforward to me....and maybe your comments could mislead people?

Maybe it is just 'different'?

[tryingtimes]

Thanks very much all. It seems there's an opening in the market for someone who takes straightforwardness seriously. Like SKY do.
Perhaps that's where freesat comes in?!

[covlad]

I'm in the same boat

Have just got new plasma TV,wife uses 2 vcr's for soaps etc also have virgin box(not V+ one).Parents also changed tv to lcd one & use a vcr.

I intend to replace our vcr's & parent's with PVR'S.

I don't mind a more technical one(ie Topfield) but need something reliable & that records accurately,no missing minutes(wife insists) BUT & it's the big but wife & parents have to be able to use it.

I take it I only really have Humax or Topfield as a choice?Have only just started to research these.

[tryingtimes]

I've just reserved the Humax 9150T from Argos for £97 - seems good value.
Thanks everyone for your help.
I'll be setting it up for them this weekend and will report back if there is anything particularly confusing for them to learn.

Unfortunately the TV also broke yesterday and my dad is insisting on buying an integrated JVC TV/PVR so they will have 2 completely different PVRs!

[Regdor]

I wish everyone well in this but in my experience it is VERY difficult to explainto "older" folks about PVR/freeview and so on.

My neighbour is 83 and was widowed 2 years ago. She Struggles to understand her DAB radio and even SKY+ is too much for her to cope with.
I have tried very patiently to help but despite her having all her faculties she just cannot get it.

My in-laws were here at Xmas they are 77 and 81 and have just bought a HD tv. They were amazed that i could freeze the 39 Steps and make a coffee despite them having a Digifuion PVR for the past 2 years! The Dig has the usual flaky drive problems that i fix every 12months or so and they were looking at the Humax freesat box in What hi-Fi. They could not understand that they would need a dish as well. I went all thru the options as simply as i could, Father-in-law got very upset when i mentioned his HD tv was NOT showing any HD at all at the moment has he has no HD source in the house! He was proudly thinking how great his new HD tv set was.
So my advice to all you very kind and helpful people is be very cautious offering to get involved in this minefield!!!

[tryingtimes]

Originally Posted by Regdor

I wish everyone well in this but in my experience it is VERY difficult to explainto "older" folks about PVR/freeview and so on.

My neighbour is 83 and was widowed 2 years ago. She Struggles to understand her DAB radio and even SKY+ is too much for her to cope with.
I have tried very patiently to help but despite her having all her faculties she just cannot get it.

My in-laws were here at Xmas they are 77 and 81 and have just bought a HD tv. They were amazed that i could freeze the 39 Steps and make a coffee despite them having a Digifuion PVR for the past 2 years! The Dig has the usual flaky drive problems that i fix every 12months or so and they were looking at the Humax freesat box in What hi-Fi. They could not understand that they would need a dish as well. I went all thru the options as simply as i could, Father-in-law got very upset when i mentioned his HD tv was NOT showing any HD at all at the moment has he has no HD source in the house! He was proudly thinking how great his new HD tv set was.
So my advice to all you very kind and helpful people is be very cautious offering to get involved in this minefield!!!

Yep - I hear you for sure
Minefield is right - just trying to buy 2 simple freeview STBs for their kitchen and bedroom tellies is hard!

[grahamlthompson]

Originally Posted by LV426

But I guess what you can't easily do, is evaluate the box in its vanilla state. By your own admission, you have added many TAPs and, whist, for the technicially savvy, this might be a "fun" thing to do - even useful - it would be quite WRONG for anyone to go away reading this and thinking that you MUST use these TAPs - warts and all.

Perhaps a better view might be obtained from someone who has no wish to tinker with the Topfield - what is it like "out of the box"?

I have both a Humax 9200 and a Toppy 5800 (no taps loaded). I don't use series record on either (2 many failures). The Toppy uses a pre freeview + very stable firmware 5.13.65 patched for split nit). In my opinion both are just as easy to use (there are slight differences but any one using just one would not have any problems). There are some apects of the user interface on the Hummy that are better than the vanilla (no taps) Toppy, but ask me which one would I keep if i could only have one it would be the Toppy every time. As for the daft sliding cover on the Hummy remote simple solution pull it off and stick it in the bin. The plastic catch that keeps it closed breaks off anyway after repeated open/close cycles.