[bignairy]

I would dearly love to get rid of Sky+ and replace it with a decent twin tuner Freeview digital PVR, but all I see on these forums are complaints about all of the various models on the market.
Are any of them actually worth buying or should I wait until the technoology matures a bit more?

[LV426]

Yes. The Fusion FVRT200 is worth buying. I say that because it's currently the most reliable* box out there.


* Reliable means, in this case, that you are VERY unlikely to miss an intended recording except by your own error. It is not free of glitches (none are) but none of its glitches mean missed recordings. Do not use the LP/EP feature.

[nil102]

I went down this route and after returning a Digifusion FVRT100 to Currys because of the noise and unreliable recordings,2xFVRT200 to Dixons as the both failed(Tuner Fault)and a Topfield which after several weeks of updates still didnt function properly I have gone back to SKY+.I dont like it but the Freeview PVR`s are not in the same league...nowhere near.If there is a fully functioning Freeview PVR out there I to would like to know.Believe it or not 75% of recordings on my SKY+ are from Free to View programs.

[grantsteve]

I too am thinking about going down the PVR route but am concerned by the vast array of glitches with all models that are being reported on the forum.

I use this forum a lot before buying anything AV related and always have to try and relate people's moans and groans to my own use, a "will it be a problem for me?" attitude I guess. Thankfully, with a lot of things, I don't really notice the things that annoy the real enthusiasts but I have to say that in the case of PVRs the things being reported here are pretty 'basic' and things which I'm pretty sure I will experience and will annoy me.

Is the technology still too new for anyone to launch a glitch free 'plug it in and go' PVR?

Also, pardon my ignorance, but the likes of Topfield, Humax and Digifusion are hardly names that your average Comet customer would associate with AV products. Aren't the likes of Sony, JVC et al producing these things?

Its a shame beacuse this actually seems like a piece of kit that will be a real benefit to my TV watching / recording, but at the moment I don't feel justified in spending the c£200 to get something that isn't quite right.

[38H21543]

Asking myself similar questions, so looking at different solutions I found this place.
http://www.simplydigital.co.uk/acata...Receivers.html

Now there may be more knowledge on this in the satellite forum which I will check out later, but as part of this topic, how do you compare these outright purchase Sky pvr's to the Freeview pvr's? Especially if you used Freesat and bought the card at circa £20?

[BurntKona]

Originally Posted by 38H21543

Asking myself similar questions, so looking at different solutions I found this place.
http://www.simplydigital.co.uk/acata...Receivers.html

That's an interesting find. I'm currently renting a flat with no aerial, but the previous occupants left a sky dish installed. I'm now wondering if an easier (and cheaper) solution is to get a SKY+ box and freesat (if that is possible), rather than trying to get the landlord to install a new aerial and getting a freeview pvr.

*ponders*

Nope, can't lose my E4/More4

[pingu]

Originally Posted by BurntKona

That's an interesting find. I'm currently renting a flat with no aerial, but the previous occupants left a sky dish installed. I'm now wondering if an easier (and cheaper) solution is to get a SKY+ box and freesat (if that is possible), rather than trying to get the landlord to install a new aerial and getting a freeview pvr.

*ponders*

I believe that unless you subscribe to a couple of Sky premium channels, you have to pay £10/month to use the Sky+ recording features

Also, you need 2 feeds from the dish for Sky+....

Cheers,
pingu

[LV426]

True. Sky+ boxes are useless as anything more than simple receivers, unless you pay up a minimum of GBP10 a month.

[nwhitfield]

Originally Posted by nil102

a Topfield which after several weeks of updates still didnt function properly

I'd be interested to know roughly when that was; there was a bit of a rough spot (to put it mildly) with some MHEG related issues around September; the current firmwares are pretty stable.

I've never used Sky+ myself, but friends who have it report numerous glitches with their boxes (mostly older ones, admittedly). Missed recordings and crashes are part of their experience too. A friend's Tivo looks great, but repeatedly suffers from sound glitches, so I'm not convinced that any PVR is without its flaws.

Nigel.

Originally Posted by nil102

I have gone back to SKY+.I dont like it but the Freeview PVR`s are not in the same league...nowhere near.If there is a fully functioning Freeview PVR out there I to would like to know.Believe it or not 75% of recordings on my SKY+ are from Free to View programs.

I ditched Sky+, and bought a Humax 9200. I'm more than happy with it: picture quality is improved, interactive services are faster to access, and the control method soon becomes second nature. I'd like chase play, but to be honest, I can live without it.

The Humax may not be perfect, but neither is the Sky+ box.

[Siamese Cat]

Originally Posted by BurntKona

*ponders*

Nope, can't lose my E4/More4

E4 and More 4 are both on Freeview.

In answer to bignairy's original question I've got a Humax 9200 and it's absolutely fine. It's never missed a recording.

The only thing I find irritating about it is that you loose the name of a recording if you pad out the timer settings and a fix for that is available online now and will, apparently, be broadcast later this month. So that's about to be fixed or, if you're impatient can be fixed right away.

I suspect that people who are perfectly happy with something have less to say than those who have problems. Maybe I'm a member of the silent majority... for me the Humax has completely changed how I view TV; I hardly bother with Sky now, never use terrestrial analogue and rarely watch anything when it's transmitted. Everything is timeshifted on the Humax. Good machine, easy to use, good picture, completely reliable.

[grantsteve]

Originally Posted by nwhitfield

I'm not convinced that any PVR is without its flaws.

Nigel.

Why is this though?! Surely they have been around long enough to allow for all the glitches and shortcomings to be sorted?

Has anyone used the Goodmans 80g HDD PVR as one was for sale in ToysRUs for I think 89.99 and was wondering whether I should get one just for the wife to have in the bedroom to give her access to Freeview and get rid of the VCR tapes lying around.

Thanks,

P.S. I would assume that if it doesn't work properly then they would have to give us our money back.

Martin

[nwhitfield]

Originally Posted by grantsteve

Why is this though?! Surely they have been around long enough to allow for all the glitches and shortcomings to be sorted?

Well, you might hope so, but there are specs for things like DTT, and then there are the ways those are used by the broadcasters, curious transmission glitches, and people with 40 year old aerials and dodgy cabling.

For example, in some areas of the MHEG spec, there are apparently ambiguities; as a result there have been several boxes that had problems with MHEG, with things like BBCi applications, or Channel 4/E4 info boxes causing lockups and crashes.

The new MHEG standard is supposed to resolve those, and hopefully that means a test suite can be more robust.

Then there are other odd things that get done differently in different countries - like the way the Extended Information field in the Freeview broadcast EPG is empty, and everything is shoe-horned into the Description field.

Or the penny-pinching way in which mux operators fail to keep an eye on whether or not they're even broadcasting an EPG, with the result that people sometimes see no data for days on Mux2, until someone drops an email to the ITV engineering department, whereupon they notice it and pull their fingers out.

Or the problems in Australia where many channels don't broadcast an accurate time signal on their DTT services, causing missed timers.

Over time, some or all of these things get addressed; but most of the boxes - especially ones for DTT - are designed by people who don't have the end to end control that Sky does, and developed in countries far away from their target market, where the quirks and bodges of the DTT transmissions may not be apparent.

If you fed most of the boxes a perfect DTT stream, with good reception and all the correct information in the correct places, you would probably find they behave much, much better than they do now.

You can patch them up, but all too often you find things change again, when someone comes up with another way of showing adverts, tweaking their interactive services, or squeezing another bit of data onto their crowded multiplex.

Nigel.

[grantsteve]

Thanks

I suppose the best way would be to take the plunge and buy one and run it for a while to see how it performs. If I don't like it I can always return it.

[kbfern]

definatley worth getting one even with the odd glitch these machines change the way you view tv.Just make sure you get a twin tuner model with a decent size hard drive (at least 120gb) and you will be fine.

After using it for a couple of weeks you won't know how you coped without it.Bear in mind you are only talking about a machine costing around £200,it's chicken feed for what you are getting(even allowing for the odd glitch or two)

[grantsteve]

Super-fi are doing the Humax 9200t for £207.95 inc VAT and Delivery to mainland UK

[ROYOLD]

I certainly haven't had any problems whatsoever with my Digifusion 150 over the past year. It's been excellent. Even the Humax 9200t and the Topfield don't annoy me any more and I was recording onto the Aldi PVR 101 last night. That's okay with recordings so I will not be returning it.

The people who constantly complain about the small amount of noise a PVR makes shouldn't have one. Come to think of it they shouldn't have a PC either as the noise is pretty much the same. I suppose you find this in all walks of life.
Some people are NEVER satisfied. If it will not also make the tea then it's no good!

Originally Posted by ROYOLD

The people who constantly complain about the small amount of noise a PVR makes shouldn't have one. Come to think of it they shouldn't have a PC either as the noise is pretty much the same. I suppose you find this in all walks of life.
Some people are NEVER satisfied. If it will not also make the tea then it's no good!

My Humax pvr is really quiet, though: far quieter than my PC, for instance. It doesn't make any noticeable noise at all.

[ROYOLD]

The Humax 9200t clicks for a short period each time you switch it on. At least mine does. It doesn't bother me but none of the other three PVR's I have do this.

[Drd]

Originally Posted by rhoamish

I'd like chase play, but to be honest, I can live without it.

Aaaaarrrrgggghhhh.I had just about accepted that I needed a pvr and despite the glitches was going to get a 9200.I thought it did do chase play.Please tell me it does!

[ROYOLD]

No it doesn't - Humax may get around to rectifying this at some time in the future. But I don't think its in the promised software upgrade OTA towards end of this month - maybe.

[LV426]

Nope. Well mostly nope.

If you are recording a programme that you are also watching (box turned on and tuned in) then you can use the live buffer (separate to the recording in effect) to rewind and chase. Your playback is interrupted when the recording stops (regardless of where you are in the watching).

But if it's just been timer recording (not "on" and on the same channel) then you have to wait until it's finished.

At the risk of repeating myself....

If the USB connection and hard drive size aren't important*, you should instead consider the DigiFusion FVRT200 which does chase play on timer recordings - easily and uninterrupted.

* and digital output - but since Freeview is all 2 channel anyway this is of little importance; the analog stereo out is more than adequate and using the RCA phono jacks allows you to fix the fact that stereo is L/R reversed.

[stuart07970]

Just like to say that I've had the Digifusion PVR150 for about a year now, and I've had no problems at all with it!

A godsend after the emotional pain of trying to live with the Pace TWIN for the previous year!

The Digifusion was £180 and I think that makes it a bargain!

Its interesting that Panasonic are the only big-brand to have released a machine, and even that came out about 9 months late! Hmm.. . . . .

The future of television will be in broadband connectivity via the telephone line, into the computer or television.
Its here right now, except unlike freeview its not free.

Telewest now can offer a vast library of transmissions - on demand. You watch what you wish when you want. This technology can only advance to better things.
No doubt these can be recorded to DVDR.

I was tempted by freeview. But buggy firmware, unknown manufacturers and beta testing on the paying public is hardly inspiring. Noting nwhitfield comments, if mux broadcasting is a hit and miss afair, whatever the PVR, dont expect a happy resolution with these devices.

Imagine a video recorder (by Sony, Tosh etc) not working properly, or missing recordings. Doesnt happen. I(f it did they`d be returned in the droves.

Its shameful situation.

[snail]

But part of the reason for mux broadcasting being so hit and miss, is down to the inability to broadcast a full strength until analogue is switched off. Until then there will inevitably be problems, if they continue after, I agree you might have a point.

As for your Telewest based alternative, I live in a village with no cable and no prospect of ever getting it (at least not before analogue switch off), and broadband speed is limited, it will improve no doubt but by when? Finally as you point out in your first sentence "its not free", even if I had any of these alternatives at my disposal, under the current model I can't see myself paying for a service which I don't perceive as offering any benefits to me over Freeview.

Snail

[ROYOLD]

I agree with snail. I also will not pay for a service over broadband. I don't believe many other pensioners will either. The main reason people are dumping $ky is because of the monthly costs of this service.

Freeview provides the best alternative - and it should be much better when this can be broadcast on full power.

I have NTL BB internet connection and NTL are constantly bombarding me with leaflets, letters to try to persuade me to take on their cable TV and phone services. They are wasting their time. FREEVIEW suits me fine.

[teabelly]

Originally Posted by longleyc

T
Imagine a video recorder (by Sony, Tosh etc) not working properly, or missing recordings. Doesnt happen. I(f it did they`d be returned in the droves.

Its shameful situation.

Early video recorders were hit and miss too. I remember the first beta max recorders we had would just not record things because they felt like it. My panasonic video which is only 8 years old would occasionally fail to make recordings on certain channels when I first had it due to pdc being unreliable on some channels.

The toppy I have now, although there are a couple of usability problems, hasn't missed a recording apart from when it switched tuners on me and I said 'no' rather than yes by mistake. I've probably recorded about 60 or 70 programmes in the couple of weeks minimum I've had it so I don't consider it a great failure rate. The only thing you have to watch out for is late running programmes as there is no pdc on freeview to stop you missing ends of things. It's coped with power cuts and a couple of signal drops without much fuss too.

if you don't want to pay out lots of money then one of the pc based pvrs like the eyetv is a great way to get some of the convenience without the cost. One of those little boxes is about £75 and it just plugs into your pc or mac and lets you record one digital channel and watch another on the same mux at the same time. If you use it from a laptop you can record and watch tv during a power cut

[FrankS]

I bought a Digifusion FVRT 200 after I'd missed some recordings on our old Akai VHS. That had PDC, you know where you copied numbers from the TV listings in the paper. The 200 has EPG, much easier, just have to remember to pad out the recording in case broadcast timing is slightly out.

I had a Sagem to begin with but returned it as it was too buggy and unreliable. Only had the 200 for 3 months but it has changed way we watch TV, it's yet to miss a recording and quality is as broadcast.

[in2deep]

Well, I've read the forums and taken the plunge, having ordered a Topfield TF5800 from Sound & Vision (£250 in their sale, inc delivery).

Judging by comments so far, it seems a good unit - especially with the twin tuners, and all the other connections and the ability to add new features via a PC using USB.

Can't wait.....