[SparkShot]

Originally Posted by nac

For what though, the PS3 controller is easy to use, comfy and well laid out.

I wouldn't say it was comfy (i don't have big hands but find the pad abit crampt and small) or well laid out (hell you can't really use the L2/R2 trigger buttons as triggers).

I would say it was adequate at best and nothing more.

[Kaden101]

Originally Posted by SparkShot

(hell you can't really use the L2/R2 trigger buttons as triggers).

Aaaaaaargggghhhh!!!! That's because they're not bloody triggers.

How many blinking times.

& relax.

[SparkShot]

Originally Posted by Kaden101

Aaaaaaargggghhhh!!!! That's because they're not bloody triggers.

How many blinking times.

& relax.

That shows how dated the design is then as in this day and age in the era of the FPS they really should be.

For me the L2/R2 "buttons" are only usable with the giotech triggers on. They also help stop my fingers slipping during driving games as those buttons aren't the best for being depressed for extended periods due the wierd trigger/button halfway house of the button shape.

Hopefully the Dualshock design will get an overdue retirement at the end of the gen.

[Kaden101]

Originally Posted by SparkShot

That shows how dated the design is then as in this day and age in the era of the FPS they really should be.

That shows how narrow minded your gaming habits are if you think a controller should be prioritised with FPS in mind. There's plenty of other genres of games to cater to.

Originally Posted by SparkShot

For me the L2/R2 "buttons" are only usable with the giotech triggers on. They also help stop my fingers slipping during driving games as those buttons aren't the best for being depressed for extended periods due the wierd trigger/button halfway house of the button shape.

Hopefully the Dualshock design will get an overdue retirement at the end of the gen.

If Giotech triggers work for you, that's good, but personally, I've never had slippage problems on those buttons on the dualshock.

If people just said I think the next Sony controller should have triggers then I could accept that as a valid argument (I don't agree, but that's not my point), but people saying the DS3 triggers are rubbish doesn't compute when it doesn't have triggers.

If Sonys next console comes with a controller with offset analogues, I'll be looking elsewhere for my gaming (3rd party controllers are mostly tat). Maybe back to PC. Thats what's good about this gen. You have a choice on control methods between two similarly powered consoles. Everyones a winner.

[DJSigma]

The DS3 is a horrible controller IMO.

The PS1 controller was fine: -

When you held it, it felt comfortable enough and your thumbs fell naturally onto the D-pad and face buttons - the only controls that games used back then.

When a few games came out that had analogue controls, Sony released this: -

The sticks were tacked on and the other controls were kept in the same place as almost all games were still played with the D-pad and face buttons.

The DS3 is the same design, only worse really as they switched the concave stick tops of the controller above for convex ones: -

It's designed so that your thumbs fall naturally on the D-pad and face buttons still. This is 2012 though, not 1995.

[SparkShot]

Originally Posted by Kaden101

That shows how narrow minded your gaming habits are if you think a controller should be prioritised with FPS in mind. There's plenty of other genres of games to cater to.

If you gear a pad for FPS it will work great for pretty much any game that interacts with a 3d environment much like the 360 pad which is very highly regarded.

I don't actually play many fps games but find the 360 controller better for all games that don't use the d-pad for movement.

As DJSigmas post highlights, the current ps3 pad is just sony bolting bits on to a (not that far off) 20 year old design over a number of years. Hopefully the ps4 will have a pad built from the ground for a modern gamers needs.

I'd be disappointed if they rolled out the same tired design again and most likely wouldn't be the only one.

[BenchyUK]

Must admit, i would like a new controller and as odd as it sounds, it feels more like a next gen console when it comes with a new controller.

However, i reckon Sony will stick to the same controller. They did they same after the banana controller and got a ton of stick for it.

[Kaden101]

Originally Posted by SparkShot

If you gear a pad for FPS it will work great for pretty much any game that interacts with a 3d environment much like the 360 pad which is very highly regarded.

I appreciate that there's a strong following for the 360 style pad, but I really don't like the thing. I get your point about the triggers, but as I've used L1/R1 for aim/shoot for so long I'm quite happy with it. Triggers don't actually give me anything extra, the end result is exactly the same. I don't think for one second I can convince myself that the controller is a gun, & that they're real triggers. It's just a button to make something happen on screen. I don't know why anyone (developer or gamer) would ever assign L2/R2 to aim/shoot on a FPS anyway. There's far too much travel for that purpose. L1/R1 is much quicker. I also can't get my head or hands around the unsymetrical layout. I'm symetrical, the pad is symetrical. Makes perfect sense to me. The 360 analogue layout is just alien & uncomfortable to me. Like I said before, it's good that MS, & Sony have gone different ways with controllers. Everyone can get something they're comfortable with.

Originally Posted by SparkShot

Hopefully the ps4 will have a pad built from the ground for a modern gamers needs. I'd be disappointed if they rolled out the same tired design again and most likely wouldn't be the only one.

I'm open to being convinced, but if they just copy the 360 pad layout, I'll be the one dissapointed.

[Stinja]

I'd prefer a slightly bigger controller (to grip), and both sticks "up". ie: swap the d-pad and x/o/t/square buttons for the two sticks. Stick dead-zone could be less too.

Not keen on the 360 "one stick up, one stick down" approach, and i HATE the battery box which sticks underneath of the 360 wireless controllers.

On balance, i prefer the PS3 controller*.



* with 3rd party trigger grip attachments

[Kaden101]

Originally Posted by Stinja

I'd prefer a slightly bigger controller (to grip), and both sticks "up". ie: swap the d-pad and x/o/t/square buttons for the two sticks. Stick dead-zone could be less too.

Not keen on the 360 "one stick up, one stick down" approach, and i HATE the battery box which sticks underneath of the 360 wireless controllers.

On balance, i prefer the PS3 controller*.

I could probably cope with swapping the analogues with the other face buttons (if they move both, not just the left one...eurgh). I think in that case the controller would definitely need to be a bit larger to make sure that the face buttons & sticks were further apart.

As your arms/hands/fingers naturally tend to angle towards the centre of the controller the further away from your shoulders you go (unless you're wierd & your shoulders are narrower than a DS3), the current setup just wouldn't do. It would be very easy to catch the insides of the sticks while using the face buttons. The reason you don't catch you fingers on the face buttons when using the analogues is only due to the height difference, but that wouldn't help the other way round.

On the other hand, make the gap too big, & it'd be a pain trying to use the face buttons, ie to reload (traditionally square button) if you had to stretch your fingers too far.

There does appear to be solid reasons why it's the way it is.

I hope they manage to sort out some sort of modular design next time so that you can swap the sticks & face buttons around as you see fit. That way nobody can moan. Who am I kidding, somebody will always moan (me..probably).

[Stinja]

Originally Posted by Kaden101

I hope they manage to sort out some sort of modular design next time so that you can swap the sticks & face buttons around as you see fit. That way nobody can moan. Who am I kidding, somebody will always moan (me..probably).

What, like this:
Mad Catz MLG Pro Circuit Controller pictures and hands-on - Pocket-lint
Pity it's wired only.

Moaning is therapeutic, or so my psychiatrist said...

[Soundburst]

Can't imagine using anything other than a DS3 this day and age.

Do people want the rear shoulder buttons to be concave rather than curved? Personal preference I guess which people are allowed.

The sticks are the main camera, and movement controls of modern 3D gaming. . .therefore it makes sense to have them both in the same place for each hand symmetrically. Don't see the problem but I guess it's personal preference

Saying that I loved the gamecube controller due to its funky different sized buttons and the non-traditional layout. But I don't really enjoy having one thumb aimed downwards, and then the other over at the dpad. I don't get it

[Foster]

I think having the the sticks concave would be cool

[Kaden101]

Originally Posted by Stinja

What, like this:
Mad Catz MLG Pro Circuit Controller pictures and hands-on - Pocket-lint
Pity it's wired only.

Moaning is therapeutic, or so my psychiatrist said...

That's the beauty. Exactly what I meant, but obviously wireless, & up to Sony's own accessories standards. Even if I wanted to try a different controller, 3rd party ones are generally weak.

[Stinja]

Originally Posted by Kaden101

up to Sony's own accessories standards. Even if I wanted to try a different controller, 3rd party ones are generally weak.

It's made to spec for the pro gaming MGL tournaments, so is meant to be better than Sony-spec. If they'd just do a wireless casual version i'd buy it in a second...


Back to the resolution discussion; a PC workmate is always complaining about how low-res 1080p is, and chuggy 30 frames/s are. The other side being, TV's, which if cant do better than 1080p, then there's little point. But more objects and faster FPS should be achievable. So i do think if devs want to make cross-platform games which make PCers happy, they really need way better GPU chips.

[Kaden101]

Couldn't give a monkeys about the resolution, but I agree that the framerate needs addressing next gen. There's definitely been a case of graphics over framerate this gen.

I'm not usually one to say that you need massive framerates, & I'd normally say that 30fps does fine, but certain types of game definitely benefit from more. Rage was a very enjoyable game because the framerate was so high, & the shooting mechanics were spot on. It felt really smooth to play. Driving games also benefit from a higher fps.

I tell you what would benefit from a higher framerate...Skyrim. Sorry, I couldn't resist, but 0fps isn't quite high enough.

[Foster]

Originally Posted by Kaden101

Couldn't give a monkeys about the resolution, but I agree that the framerate needs addressing next gen. There's definitely been a case of graphics over framerate this gen.

I'm not usually one to say that you need massive framerates, & I'd normally say that 30fps does fine, but certain types of game definitely benefit from more. Rage was a very enjoyable game because the framerate was so high, & the shooting mechanics were spot on. It felt really smooth to play. Driving games also benefit from a higher fps.

I tell you what would benefit from a higher framerate...Skyrim. Sorry, I couldn't resist, but 0fps isn't quite high enough.

0fps is high for bethesda games :D

[SparkShot]

1080p and 60fps is pretty much a must for the next gen systems plus having enough power to run decent levels of AA and other effects.

I saw the Uncharted 3 advert on tv alot over crimbo and the main thing i noticed were the jaggies all over the place and everything looking a bit low res compared to what i have become used to on pc.

No point going any higher than 1080p as 1080p tv's in homes are only just becoming more common place now, plus bumping up the res would require somes serious gpu grunt so probably wouldn't be very feasable even for this next gen.

[Kaden101]

Originally Posted by SparkShot

I saw the Uncharted 3 advert on tv alot over crimbo and the main thing i noticed were the jaggies all over the place and everything looking a bit low res compared to what i have become used to on pc.

Yeah, jaggies all over the place

[IMG]http://3.bp***************/-l_or64ueISs/TaycRKiuneI/AAAAAAAABHg/3gyUa3ZrIiU/s1600/Uncharted-3-Drakes-Deception_2011_04-18-11_006.jpg[/IMG]

[RottenFox]

Originally Posted by Kaden101

Yeah, jaggies all over the place

Yeah, was gonna say something along those lines..

PC fanboys, and their stagnant games market

[shoestring25]

the abilty to do 4k resolution at 60fps in 3d thats what the ps4 should be capable of

[Kaden101]

Originally Posted by shoestring25

the abilty to do 4k resolution at 60fps in 3d thats what the ps4 should be capable of

Not expecting much are you? Would you also like it to cost £200 at release as well.

[Foster]

Originally Posted by Kaden101

Not expecting much are you? Would you also like it to cost £200 at release as well.

who even has 4K capable TV I certainly don't and many others don't

[BenchyUK]

The PS3 and Xbox has already pushed people to go and buy a HD screen to enjoy HD Graphics, more recent screens allow the 3D functionality but i cant see the PS4 to expect those same people to go out and buy a 4k res screen. 4K Res will probably be far more niche than 3D and Blu-Ray

[shoestring25]

you dont have to buy a 4k tele you can play a 4k game in 1080p if thats what your current tv displays. but if the console comes out in say a year and a halfs time and has a 6 year life span then 4k is a possibility


japans already developing 8k and wants to broadcast by 2015

HDMI 1.4 already supports 4k

[Foster]

Like what was said above it all costs money :P

[criggy]

Originally Posted by shoestring25

you dont have to buy a 4k tele you can play a 4k game in 1080p if thats what your current tv displays. but if the console comes out in say a year and a halfs time and has a 6 year life span then 4k is a possibility


japans already developing 8k and wants to broadcast by 2015

HDMI 1.4 already supports 4k

The PS4 will probably support 4k like the PS2 supported 1080i or maybe go the upscale route like Bluray players.

But to even suggest 4k games is pure fantasy at this time IMO. Maybe in 10 years or so.

I wouldn't be surprised if most AAA games remained in 720P but with much improved geometry, AA, post processing and particles etc, for both next gen systems.

The biggest irony I can see is that the WiiU could have more native 1080P games due to the fact that Nintendo's own games are graphically less taxing!

[Kaden101]

If we estimate a conservative release price of £300 for the PS4 (very conservative if you're using the PS3 as a comparison).

You find me a PC right now that can do games in 4K for anywhere near that price. I'm not talking a graphics card, I'm talking case, motherboard, CPU, heatsink, Blu-Ray drive, power supply, mouse, keyboard, GPU, RAM, soundcard, wireless network card, etc. I'll leave monitor out as you don't need one for a console.

Go on then.

[criggy]

Originally Posted by Kaden101

If we estimate a conservative release price of £300 for the PS4 (very conservative if you're using the PS3 as a comparison).

You find me a PC right now that can do games in 4K for anywhere near that price. I'm not talking a graphics card, I'm talking case, motherboard, CPU, heatsink, Blu-Ray drive, power supply, mouse, keyboard, GPU, RAM, soundcard, wireless network card, etc. I'll leave monitor out as you don't need one for a console.

Go on then.

Well it isn't happening. It's as simple as that.

A high end PC with 2 7970 in crossfire does Battlefield 3 on Ultra at just over 60fps at 2160X1600(3.45 million pixels)

4K resolution is 4096X2160(8.8 million pixels) so I estimate the most powerful PC of today to run the above game at ~20fps.

It would cost £1500 just for the graphics cards to make it playable at that resolution!

[SparkShot]

Originally Posted by Kaden101

Yeah, jaggies all over the place

image



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image

That does look much better than the adverts to be fair although doesn't look as crisp as a pc game although thats to be expected given the res.

Will hopefully get round to playing it soon anyway as i enjoyed the first two games.