[AML]

http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/top/for...ide-214130.php

Read this over at Kotaku. And it really sums up what happened on the release day of the PS3 in Japan.

Even where I was waiting there was a dodgy guy in a suite trying to get homeless guys in the line in front of me. I shouted at them in Japanese to get to the back. Of course they did, but they were still there later on with an additional 20 homeless looking people. There were also a bunch of chinese people in front of me who had been waiting longer than me.
These people all probably got PS3s which would have been handed to their "bosses" and sold online for proffit.

Only way to stop this behaviour is to stop the online sales. Stop E-Bay.

Its a shame for the true gamers that cant get one.

[Jonstone]

Originally Posted by AML

http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/top/for...ide-214130.php



Only way to stop this behaviour is to stop the online sales. Stop E-Bay.

Its a shame for the true gamers that cant get one.

No, the only way to stop this is for manufacturers to have an acceptable level of stock ready when they release a new console

[Pooon]

Why can't they just use a pre-order system like most of he civalised world uses. would save a lot of moaning if you could only get a new console with a preorder slip and only issue the same ammount of preorder slips as consoles. Simple really

[apolloa]

Originally Posted by AML

http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/top/for...ide-214130.php

Read this over at Kotaku. And it really sums up what happened on the release day of the PS3 in Japan.

Even where I was waiting there was a dodgy guy in a suite trying to get homeless guys in the line in front of me. I shouted at them in Japanese to get to the back. Of course they did, but they were still there later on with an additional 20 homeless looking people. There were also a bunch of chinese people in front of me who had been waiting longer than me.
These people all probably got PS3s which would have been handed to their "bosses" and sold online for proffit.

Only way to stop this behaviour is to stop the online sales. Stop E-Bay.

Its a shame for the true gamers that cant get one.

It's a sad fact in your neck of the woods that people do get exploited by other
I agree though that a pre order system would be good. Why don't you guy's have one? Even Nintendo don't use a pre order system there do they?

[mad_angler1]

The only way to stop this is a global launch in the same week with plenty of available units, with a global launch date and no stock shortages there would be no market for these people.

[Mr.D]

The people doing this sort of thing are merely exploiting the market. I fail to see what is so morally reprehensible about this. Surely if you are that desperate for a PS3 you'd have preordered months in advance.

[ash]

Originally Posted by Pooon

Why can't they just use a pre-order system like most of he civalised world uses.

Doesn't work most of the time, look at XBox360.


but...the PS2 pre-order system was very good.

[andytabor]

ive read about that before, the same thing was happening with the ds lite.

[RobDickinson]

Sorry, one way is to stop ebay?

lololroflcopter!!!0ne.

Its capitalism, were free to spend our money on what we want, and free (most of the time) to sell our goods for what we want.

If someone wants to buy something in demand and sell it for more, thats the basics of ecconomy, good for them , sux to be you if you miss out. No one forces anyone to spend over the odds on a console just because its launch week.

As said, its a problem because sony cant make enough right now, wait a few months and they'll be on the shelves everywhere, piled high.

[AML]

Originally Posted by RobDickinson

Sorry, one way is to stop ebay?

lololroflcopter!!!0ne.

Its capitalism, were free to spend our money on what we want, and free (most of the time) to sell our goods for what we want.

If someone wants to buy something in demand and sell it for more, thats the basics of ecconomy, good for them , sux to be you if you miss out. No one forces anyone to spend over the odds on a console just because its launch week.

As said, its a problem because sony cant make enough right now, wait a few months and they'll be on the shelves everywhere, piled high.

So you think that its ok to exploit people and cheat others just so long as you make money?

hmm, ok. if thats capitalism then i want no part of it.

[edtremaine]

Originally Posted by AML

So you think that its ok to exploit people and cheat others just so long as you make money?

hmm, ok. if thats capitalism then i want no part of it.

Unfortunately, that is Capitalism. Most businesses exploit people for the benefit of the business. Rarely does a business set out to help people prosper and then if they happen to make a little bit of money on the side, that's an added bonus.

Thing is, the people that are paying for new consoles at 1000 each, are probably the stupidly rich (or just stupid) and most of the people selling them are the not so very rich. Wait a couple of months and the prices will halve. There'll be more than just Ridge Racer 7 that's worth playing & the hardware glitches that will inevitably affect the early consoles will be sorted out.

I for one will sell mine as soon as it arrives, as I have RR6 on the 360 and can wait a couple of months for that 'opening the box of a new console' feeling. Anyway, the Wii's just round the corner and Nintendo have apparently got their act together. As well as Zelda!

[RobDickinson]

Originally Posted by AML

So you think that its ok to exploit people and cheat others just so long as you make money?

hmm, ok. if thats capitalism then i want no part of it.

Exploit?? Dont buy one at stupid prices and they'll be stuck with it. Supply, meet demand, AML meet the real world.

If a few homeless peoples lives are improved a bit by this then at least the ps3 has achieved something!!

[Mr.D]

Originally Posted by AML

So you think that its ok to exploit people and cheat others just so long as you make money?

hmm, ok. if thats capitalism then i want no part of it.

Who are the exploited?
Who are the cheated?

[Tejstar]

What a great article. I had no idea that kind of stuff was going on, it certainly was very eye-opening!

[MAW]

It's on BBC news too. What I find sad is that people are that desperate to have one. What happened to patience? Clearly this is why UK is in debt, the 'I must have it now' syndrone. I'll buy one, in due course, just not queueing all night for it, or paying more than list for it. If that involves waiting, well, that's life.

[AML]

Originally Posted by Mr.D

Who are the exploited?
Who are the cheated?

The expoited are the chinese, and the cheated are those who have to pay stupid prices coz they couldnt get one at the normal price on release day.

Im not moaning about prices mind. i got mine for the retail price.

Hey, im only feeling sorry for you guys. the ones having to pay 500 quid for a PS3....

You all make it sound like what happened is a good thing or somethng? What happened to morality?

meh. the youth of today...

[just slackin']

Originally Posted by AML

The expoited are the chinese, and the cheated are those who have to pay stupid prices coz they couldnt get one at the normal price on release day.

Im not moaning about prices mind. i got mine for the retail price.

Hey, im only feeling sorry for you guys. the ones having to pay 500 quid for a PS3....

You all make it sound like what happened is a good thing or somethng? What happened to morality?

meh. the youth of today...

totally agree with you mate.

said as much during the 360 launch last year but i was part of a tiny minority. did my (tiny little) bit by selling my spare 360 on here for cost when i could have got more for it on a certain auction site.

[bishman]

Originally Posted by AML

Hey, im only feeling sorry for you guys. the ones having to pay 500 quid for a PS3....

But nobody has to pay £500 for a PS3, those that do make a choice to do so, surely? I'm not condoning the people that buy the units to sell for a profit but it's not like they have to twist any arms to make the sale.

[AML]

Originally Posted by bishman

But nobody has to pay £500 for a PS3, those that do make a choice to do so, surely? I'm not condoning the people that buy the units to sell for a profit but it's not like they have to twist any arms to make the sale.

I hear this talk from many people. "nobody is forcing you to pay the money"

Well, i think that they are forcing us. By buying up the initial stock and selling it back to us at double or more of the retail price.

If you have a choice between double the price or no console, what do u think a lot of people will choose to do?

Its ok if there are enough machines to go around at the retail price. But there arent. leaving those who really want a machine with little choice but to pay the e-bay asking price.

All these people are doing is buying them up then selling them back to us.
They arent doing us any favours. Its pure greed. Simple as that.

[bishman]

Originally Posted by AML

If you have a choice between double the price or no console, what do u think a lot of people will choose to do?

I have that very choice and I choose to wait. I'm not about to line the pockets of the people that choose to fleece others. I don't see why anyone would feel the need that they had to buy one straight away. These people only get away with these prices because people choose to pay it.

Like I said, I don't condone what they are doing but I still maintain that they aren't forcing anyone. We'll just have to agree to differ on this one.

[bishman]

Originally Posted by AML

All these people are doing is buying them up then selling them back to us.
They arent doing us any favours. Its pure greed. Simple as that.

Missed this bit before and I 100% agree with it.

[MAW]

I'd rather see smashmyPS3.com get one than these vultures. At least we can all have a laugh that way!

[Mr.D]

Originally Posted by AML

The expoited are the chinese, and the cheated are those who have to pay stupid prices coz they couldnt get one at the normal price on release day.

Explain how giving 90quid to a homeless "Chinese" guy to stand in line for a few hours is exploitation. Were they actually "Chinese" or is this some sort of conveneient label the Japanese put on their homeless people?

What happened to preordering? I had no problems getting an xbox360 on release day because I took the time to pre-order months in advance. If you want a console badly enough then its normal practice to preorder ...has been since the original playstation arrived .

I see nothng immoral in what the price hikers are doing ...amoral yes...but hey welcome to the market economy.

[Phelan]

Originally Posted by AML

I hear this talk from many people. "nobody is forcing you to pay the money"

Well, i think that they are forcing us. By buying up the initial stock and selling it back to us at double or more of the retail price.

If you have a choice between double the price or no console, what do u think a lot of people will choose to do?

Its ok if there are enough machines to go around at the retail price. But there arent. leaving those who really want a machine with little choice but to pay the e-bay asking price.

All these people are doing is buying them up then selling them back to us.
They arent doing us any favours. Its pure greed. Simple as that.

lol get real mate. No one is forcing "us" to do anything.

You are either willing to spend the money or you aint. It's as simple as that. If you can't afford the prices on ebay, then don't press the bid/buy it now button. The laws of supply and deman are in effect. No one is doing anything wrong. In any market there will be punters willing to pay more than others for the same product, as there are punters who are only willing to pay less than current asking price. It's all about perceived value to the end user.

Sure, a gamer may miss out on one because someone has bought one to sell on for proft, but that's just hard luck. Join the other 10 million people waiting for one. If you're not willing to wait and are willing to part with £1000 then contgratulations you've just bought yourself a little slice of happiness.

The people buying them up and selling them on see the PS3 as a short term investment for monetry gain. Nothing wrong with that. It's not like they are stealing them. They are stumping up Sonys asking price and risking capital in return for profit. It's capitalism my friend.

Besides, I know you already have one AML you jammy sod

Oh, and don't feel too sorry for the poor chinese getting paid to wait in queues to buy PS3's for their "masters". It's probably the easiest buck they'll make this week. Everyone's a winner.

[just slackin']

Originally Posted by Phelan

...Oh, and don't feel too sorry for the poor chinese getting paid to wait in queues to buy PS3's for their "masters". It's probably the easiest buck they'll make this week. Everyone's a winner.

apart from the ordinary japanese gamer who wanted one to play games on - or so it would seem.

[anilo]

I have no real issue with someone buying an item and then market forces allowing them to make a profit by selling it. I'm sure many of us have done it at some point (I know I have - Intentionally and unintentionally).

Personally speaking though in terms of a PS3, I definitely sit in the 'wait and see' camp. I think the reason for that is I currently have a viable alternative in the Xbox 360.

If the Xbox 360 was not available I may have a different view, but in the meatime I am able to walk into a local store and purchase the 'next generation' at the RRP (or less using the many offers described on this site)

[Phelan]

Originally Posted by just slackin'

apart from the ordinary japanese gamer who wanted one to play games on - or so it would seem.

Sony should have made enough to satisfy demand at launch or s/he should have got to the front of the queue then shouldn't s/he?

[AML]

Originally Posted by Mr.D

Explain how giving 90quid to a homeless "Chinese" guy to stand in line for a few hours is exploitation. Were they actually "Chinese" or is this some sort of conveneient label the Japanese put on their homeless people?

What happened to preordering? I had no problems getting an xbox360 on release day because I took the time to pre-order months in advance. If you want a console badly enough then its normal practice to preorder ...has been since the original playstation arrived .

I see nothng immoral in what the price hikers are doing ...amoral yes...but hey welcome to the market economy.

It was bit of a "mixed bag" at the launch. there were a lot of homeless japanese folk, but also a whole bunch of Chinese students and other folk (trying to make ends meet i guess).

There are no pre-orders in most japanese shops. They want us to wait in line coz that way the shop gets more exposure media wise.

[RockStrongo]

This whole market forces thing is a red herring in my opinion.

You can't forcibly regulate a market like this. Banning ebay will do no good at all. Apart from reducing the number of fake memory cards in circulation obviously. If there is a difference between supply and demand for anything, a market is created and price will go up. No amount of regulation will ever stop it. Black markets exist in the most hardline communist states.

And where would the regulation stop? What makes the console market so special? If I was to sell my house at the original price the builder charged for it and then insist on only buying another house at the builders cost I know where I'd end up living. It'd be in a queue outside a PS3 shop in Japan with a bloke shouting at me in japanese to get to the back . . .

[AML]

Originally Posted by RockStrongo

This whole market forces thing is a red herring in my opinion.

You can't forcibly regulate a market like this. Banning ebay will do no good at all. Apart from reducing the number of fake memory cards in circulation obviously. If there is a difference between supply and demand for anything, a market is created and price will go up. No amount of regulation will ever stop it. Black markets exist in the most hardline communist states.

And where would the regulation stop? What makes the console market so special? If I was to sell my house at the original price the builder charged for it and then insist on only buying another house at the builders cost I know where I'd end up living. It'd be in a queue outside a PS3 shop in Japan with a bloke shouting at me in japanese to get to the back . . .

Im not saying we should ban e-bay all together. They would probably be replaced by someone else. But they themselves said they wouldnt allow PS3s to be sold there. Have they kept their word?
Apparently not.

Everyone knows that whats going on is just plain unfair. You think no one is geting hurt, but they are.

I think the real gamer who cant get a console and becomes dissilusioned are the ones loosing out. What happens when real gamers stop playing games?
The market dissapears and we all loose out.

Those people just dont stand out as much as they ones making money. We always applaude people when they make money. Even at another persons cost.
If it weas a real gamer buying the thing, playing it for a while then selling it on, fair enough.
But the people buying them up arent even opening them. Or buying games with the hardware. (thats what was happening in Japan)
Thats another point. Sony and MS dont make any money off the hardware. They make money off the software.
So, Is whats happening now a good thing for the market?

You also cant compare the console market with the housing market. The scale is totaly different. Gaming is supposed to be fun. your supposed to be able to go to a shop and buy a new console, take it home and enjoy it.
Not buy a machine with no games, then sell it online to a real gamer for triple the price.

Thanks to comapnies like sony, gaming has become big business. And I think this is for the worst.

By the way, the homeless folk were being told to get to the back (by me) coz they were trying to skip in front of me!