Panasonic AE3000 problems

cartman69 · 17-01-2009, 10:28 AM

I upgraded from an ageing sony hs50 to a panasonic ae3000 about 6 weeks ago and when i got it my first impressions were to say the least - underwelmed!!! It just didn't have that wow factor i thought i would get going from 720 to 1080p. The picture seemed very "noisy/grainy" to me. My dealer checked the projector out and could not find a problem. Then the real problems began!!! I am getting a red ghost image which is only noticeable on panning shots, it shows up really well on dark scenes or black and white stuff like the opening scenes on casino royal (blu-ray), but can also but seen on the likes of sin city. I have tried different cables, various sources - ps3,pc,sky, different hdmi inputs, i've tried hdmi and vga, but and they all show the same effect. I have tried 720p,1080i and 1080p (both 24 and 60hz). I returned the projector for repair to panasonic and all that they could find in their testing was dust in the optical path - although when i got it back it had the same number of hours on the bulb!!! When i got the projector back from panasonic, i now have a new problem, i'm getting a green halo on the screeen, which can easily be seen when i launch media player classic in fullscreen mode, so i have a black screen, then right click to get the options box. If i do this on the lhs of the screen, everthing is fine, but if i do this from about the middle to the rhs of the screen. I get a green halo around the box, which can also be seen on the taskbar and the top bar. I thought it may be that i am using quite a bit of horizontal lense shift but after moving the projector temporarily to a position dead centre i have the same problem. The other problem i have is that i am unable to get a pin sharp image across the screen, using a text 1080p test pattern that i downloaded, i get either the lhs or the rhs of text in focus, but not both??? Can somebody with a ae3000 try casino royale and see if they get the same red ghosting. The scene in question is right at the beginning of the film, the bloke enters the office, sees bond sitting in the chair, looks at the safe and then starts walking to his desk - that's when i get red ghosting. I also get it when he opens his desk to get his gun out. Any suggestions would be greatly appreiciated, as i'm pulling my hair out - and i haven't got that much to spare

EDIT - as you can see from greenhaze8 there is no haze around the box on the lhs of the screen.

KelvinS1965 · 17-01-2009, 10:37 AM

I'll be watching a film or two tonight on mine, so I'll try to remember to look at the Bond scene as I have the BD. Are you using frame creation mode at all? I did have trouble getting mine sharp all over the screen at first, then I found I had the PJ slightly turned (it's shelf mounted in a bookcase) to the screen. Once I'd straightened it then the image was better, though they never are 100% all over due to the 3 separate LCD panels alignment not being completely perfect.

EDIT: The green halo issue may have been caused when they cleaned the dust out, possibly disturbing the polarizer or maybe even the green LCD panel. I'd taking it back again as these aren't cheap and you shouldn't have to accept it IMHO.

cartman69 · 17-01-2009, 10:42 AM

thnx i have mine bookshelf mounted as well, so i that may be one of my problems. I have tried all sorts of combinations with frame creation, to try and minimise the hdmi lip sync i am getting. Hmmm i wonder how much a 92" plasma would run at

KelvinS1965 · 17-01-2009, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartman69

thnx i have mine bookshelf mounted as well, so i that may be one of my problems. I have tried all sorts of combinations with frame creation, to try and minimise the hdmi lip sync i am getting. Hmmm i wonder how much a 92" plasma would run at

92".........you've got a small screen then, maybe get a cheaper portable TV to replace it.

The lip sync needs to be delayed within your amp. IIRC mode 1 needs 30-50mS and mode 2 about 130mS (info from the web so take with a pinch of salt), assuming you amp allows delay to be added. The bookshelf itself isn't an issue, just that mine was turned slightly so although the PJ looked square on the shelf, the whole thing was twisted so not shooting dead square at the screen. Actually, I think I may have added an extra 'twist' anyway the other way, which compensates for a slight off focus lhs, but that may be unique to my particular example, but it seems to work.

Hope you get yours sorted.

morksbeanbag · 17-01-2009, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartman69

thnx i have mine bookshelf mounted as well, so i that may be one of my problems. I have tried all sorts of combinations with frame creation, to try and minimise the hdmi lip sync i am getting. Hmmm i wonder how much a 92" plasma would run at

Take it back and go for something else. Spending thousands of pounds and getting ghosting and halo's is unacceptable

. I'd be very firm with the dealer that supplied it to you.

cartman69 · 17-01-2009, 12:40 PM

KelvinS1965 - yeah i already have a portable (only a 720p 42" plasma) and i get a great picture from that!!! I've just checked my screen and it's 7mm out of square, could that be giving me my focus problems??? I've angled the projector so that the image on the screen is parallel top and bottom and square side to side, but it is still blurry

morksbeanbag - i've got a good dealer with a solid reputation, but i think the problem i'm going to have now is the time that i've had the projector. Hopefully i can find a definate problem so that i can tell the dealer that the projector has been faulty from day one and i want a refund - or at the least a replacement projector!!!!

cartman69 · 18-01-2009, 7:13 AM

Well i remounted my ageing sony hs50 - 1500hrs on it's second bulb, and the picture is fine. Image pin sharp across the screen, no red ghosting, no green halos. So it is definately nothing to do with the cables, or sources

I will say when i first went to 1080p, i thought there wasn't much of an increase in performance. But having had it for a while - even with all of the problems i'm having with the panny, i definately want another 1080p. Whether that's a replacement panny or i go for something else. For the money that i have i spent, i do not think asking for a replacement or a refund on a product that has had problems since i received it is unreasonable. If i had went for say the outgoing sanyo - which i'm sure is a fine projector, and paid the sort of money they were going for, i would not have been suprised to find the odd problem, but to spend over 2k and have these problems is unacceptable as far i am concerned - lets hope my dealer agrees

jacko5 · 18-01-2009, 9:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartman69

Well i remounted my ageing sony hs50 - 1500hrs on it's second bulb, and the picture is fine. Image pin sharp across the screen, no red ghosting, no green halos. So it is definately nothing to do with the cables, or sources

I will say when i first went to 1080p, i thought there wasn't much of an increase in performance. But having had it for a while - even with all of the problems i'm having with the panny, i definately want another 1080p. Whether that's a replacement panny or i go for something else. For the money that i have i spent, i do not think asking for a replacement or a refund on a product that has had problems since i received it is unreasonable. If i had went for say the outgoing sanyo - which i'm sure is a fine projector, and paid the sort of money they were going for, i would not have been suprised to find the odd problem, but to spend over 2k and have these problems is unacceptable as far i am concerned - lets hope my dealer agrees

Don't just hope he agrees, be more positive! You have a faulty projector which is not fit for purpose. Don't be aggressive, but be firm. Right and the law is on your side. If at all possible, demonstrate the problem to him in his premises and get him on your side when dealing with Panasonic.

cartman69 · 18-01-2009, 9:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacko5

Don't just hope he agrees, be more positive! You have a faulty projector which is not fit for purpose. Don't be aggressive, but be firm. Right and the law is on your side. If at all possible, demonstrate the problem to him in his premises and get him on your side when dealing with Panasonic.

the problem is the dealer isn't local so i can't demonstrate the problem to him, and it's easy to fob you off over the phone, rather than when you are in the shop making a scene in front of prospective customers

jacko5 · 18-01-2009, 9:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartman69

the problem is the dealer isn't local so i can't demonstrate the problem to him, and it's easy to fob you off over the phone, rather than when you are in the shop making a scene in front of prospective customers

I understand your problem, so why not send him the images which you posted on this forum. They showed up the problem without any room for doubt.

cartman69 · 18-01-2009, 9:31 AM

yes i have done, tho it will be monday before i hopefully get a reply. The thing is, do i ask for a refund or a new projector - i don't want panasonic to try and fix it again god knows what it would be like when it came back!!!. I went went for the panny, as due to my setup it was the best - and easiest fit !!

KelvinS1965 · 18-01-2009, 10:23 AM

I looked at the Bond scenes last night on mine (mode 1 and off for what it's worth) and didn't see the issue you had. It does sound like you've got a poor example otherwise I think it would be more widely reported, especially by our litigation happy friends across the pond.

I really think the dealer needs to do something to help, don't let them fob you off, but I know what you mean about over phone: When I first got my AE3000 I rang the shop the next working day to say I wasn't happy with the edge to edge focus (before I realised my alignment problem

) but their response wasn't encouraging, so I'm glad it was a setup issue: They basically said that at this price range a PJ wouldn't be perfect....along the lines that it would be deemed 'acceptable', which wasn't what I expected to hear after ordering it 'blind' and having spent over £2K.

cartman69 · 18-01-2009, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KelvinS1965

I looked at the Bond scenes last night on mine (mode 1 and off for what it's worth) and didn't see the issue you had. It does sound like you've got a poor example otherwise I think it would be more widely reported, especially by our litigation happy friends across the pond.

I really think the dealer needs to do something to help, don't let them fob you off, but I know what you mean about over phone: When I first got my AE3000 I rang the shop the next working day to say I wasn't happy with the edge to edge focus (before I realised my alignment problem

) but their response wasn't encouraging, so I'm glad it was a setup issue: They basically said that at this price range a PJ wouldn't be perfect....along the lines that it would be deemed 'acceptable', which wasn't what I expected to hear after ordering it 'blind' and having spent over £2K.

thnx for taking the time to do the testing, at least i know for definate that it isn't a trait of the ae3000. They seem to think that 2k is chciken freed, but in these times it's a lot of money. As i said before if i got one of the sanyos going "cheap" for under 1k i'd be more inclined to say "oh well you get what you pay for" But when you think there a a few projectors cheaper that i could have bought the sony hw10, the new sanyo z3000 and mitsubishi hc6500 to name a few. To say that at this price range it's acceptable - as far as i'm converned this price range IS the 1080p market!!! ALso i only paid £1500 for my sony hs50 and that has given me no problems at all - i probably shouldn't have said that

morksbeanbag · 18-01-2009, 5:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacko5

Don't just hope he agrees, be more positive! You have a faulty projector which is not fit for purpose. Don't be aggressive, but be firm. Right and the law is on your side. If at all possible, demonstrate the problem to him in his premises and get him on your side when dealing with Panasonic.

I agree, you're going to have to be alot firmer. If you are saying "i do not think asking for a replacement or a refund on a product that has had problems since i received it is unreasonable", it sounds weak, and a dealer, good repuation or not will pick on on that instantly. I wouldn't ask for a replacement, I'd insist on it.

cartman69 · 18-01-2009, 5:48 PM

yeah i'm going to need to have what i want from them ready before i ring, and be ready for with what consequences there will be if i do not get it. What are my legal standings based on the problems i've described, given the length of time i've had it??? any lawyers out there???

Comer · 19-01-2009, 9:24 AM

Those images show that your projector is seriously flawed, get it replaced. I would be very surprised if any dealer worth his salt would not agree having seen those images.

Good luck and keep us informed

cartman69 · 19-01-2009, 11:49 AM

yes i'm glad it's not just me. I returned it once and they say they checked it out and it was ok. So you think, well they are the experts so it must be me. Then i sent it back to panasonic and when i got it back and they have managed to make it worse

cartman69 · 19-01-2009, 12:54 PM

Just got a call from my dealer, and they are going to arrange to pick up my projector tomorrow morning. They want to give it quick check over and confirm what the pictures are showing - they would have to be blind not to see it!!! They asked if i wanted a full refund, or another projector - you can't say fairer than that!!! I went for another panny, because for my setup it is the best fit. They are getting more stock on wednesday, so have promised to get it to me this week

Thnx for the responses, hopefully my new one will be ok

scallywag · 19-01-2009, 1:13 PM

That's great news Cartman

The timing of this thread couldn't have been better for me to be honest.

I have ordered and am driving to Tunbridge Wells this Saturday to pick up my AE3000. I am going to send them this link and speak to the guy before I hand my cash over, making sure I get the same treatment if mine turns out to have the same problem.

Happy days

Scallywag

cartman69 · 19-01-2009, 1:29 PM

hope you get a good 'un scallywag

This confirms what i've always thought, when you are buying specialist av stuff, got to a dealer rather than a box shifter, you may save a couple of quid but i somehow doubt i would have had this level of aftersales care if i bought it from comet!!! I even had a email from the company director - and big avforums supporter, apologising for all of the problems - now that's committment to customer service

KelvinS1965 · 19-01-2009, 6:17 PM

Sounds like things have worked out well, I hope that the new one is everthing you hoped the firtst one should have been.

cartman69 · 19-01-2009, 10:45 PM

yup i even got and offer of a discount on future av purchase as way of compensation - you wouldn't hear of comet doing that

Well maybe a free scart for your new blu-ray player so you can get the most from true HD

cartman69 · 22-01-2009, 5:21 AM

UPDATE

Well my dealer has been in touch and they have tested projector and cannot see the red ghosting but can see the halos

They are still prepared to give me another projector but i'm wary about going ahead. I've posted a movie clip, RapidShare: Easy Filehosting , sorry about rapidshare but it was the only one i knew about - it's 31mb but it's the best way i can think of to show the problem

cartman69 · 24-01-2009, 11:45 AM

Well i'm still waiting for my dealer to get back to me after viewing the clip i sent him - the same one i posted here. But i may have stumbled onto the cause of the problem. I've just read this article - Is Frame Interpolation Important? It's about frame interpolation,and i quote from the article "For example, instead of the judder, we may see some ghosting as subjects move across the screen" That's exactly what i am seeing

Although what i can't undestand is that i tested the projector with both frame creation switched on and off in the menu, and i also tried modes 1 and 2. I wonder if the projector is faulty and not switching it off when selected, what do you think - possible

3rdDegree · 24-01-2009, 2:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartman69

Well i'm still waiting for my dealer to get back to me after viewing the clip i sent him - the same one i posted here. But i may have stumbled onto the cause of the problem. I've just read this article - Is Frame Interpolation Important? It's about frame interpolation,and i quote from the article "For example, instead of the judder, we may see some ghosting as subjects move across the screen" That's exactly what i am seeing

Although what i can't undestand is that i tested the projector with both frame creation switched on and off in the menu, and i also tried modes 1 and 2. I wonder if the projector is faulty and not switching it off when selected, what do you think - possible

Although FI can causes the judder or what I percieved to more like "trails" during fast movement, it certainly does not cause the other problems you were having (such as in the opening B&W sequence of CR). I think you just got a dud projector.

I only have FI switched on for TV and games. I find for movies, it makes it look a but "too clear". Almost 3d at times. I switch it off for movies.

cartman69 · 24-01-2009, 11:30 PM

The problem is that although my dealer confirms the green halo issue and is happy to replace the projector, they cannot seem to reproduce the same effect that i posted in the video clip/screenshot of CR - the red ghosting. So i am unhappy about getting a replacement projector and finding the same problems with that.

tinny1 · 25-01-2009, 1:06 PM

where did you get projector from mate as looking at getting one of these anyone suggest dealers?????QUOTE=cartman69;8687776]The problem is that although my dealer confirms the green halo issue and is happy to replace the projector, they cannot seem to reproduce the same effect that i posted in the video clip/screenshot of CR - the red ghosting. So i am unhappy about getting a replacement projector and finding the same problems with that.[/QUOTE]

cartman69 · 25-01-2009, 2:16 PM

errr i don't really want to name the dealer until i get this issue sorted, as they may get unfairly criticised for a problem not of there doing. But Roy Jowett Audio and Visual Home Cinema & Hi Fi Specialists :: Hot Deals on Hifi & A/V Equipment :: Home Cinema & More :: DLP, LCD & D-ILA Projector Specialists - : Roy Jowett Home Cinema & Hi Fi : Call 01282 864048 , Audio, Video and Home Cinema from AV Sales and Kent Home Cinema - Home all stock the panny, and are all well respected dealers on this forum. Roy jowett are doing a free 204x87 2.35:1 screen at the moment with the panny

Just try and stay away from "box shifters" who give you no after sales service. For all of my problems with the panny, i can't fault my dealer for their help in trying to resolve this issue.

tinny1 · 25-01-2009, 2:36 PM

thanks for that mate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartman69

errr i don't really want to name the dealer until i get this issue sorted, as they may get unfairly criticised for a problem not of there doing. But Roy Jowett Audio and Visual Home Cinema & Hi Fi Specialists :: Hot Deals on Hifi & A/V Equipment :: Home Cinema & More :: DLP, LCD & D-ILA Projector Specialists - : Roy Jowett Home Cinema & Hi Fi : Call 01282 864048 , Audio, Video and Home Cinema from AV Sales and Kent Home Cinema - Home all stock the panny, and are all well respected dealers on this forum. Roy jowett are doing a free 204x87 2.35:1 screen at the moment with the panny

Just try and stay away from "box shifters" who give you no after sales service. For all of my problems with the panny, i can't fault my dealer for their help in trying to resolve this issue.

ashcurrie · 25-01-2009, 5:11 PM

I got mine from The Home Cinema Centre (Edinburgh) and I can't recommend them enough, give them a ring and spk to Dan if you can, they do next day delivery and I'm sure he would sort you out with a sweet deal. Hi-Fi, Home Cinema, DVD Players, Plasma & LCD TVs & Projectors, The Home Cinema Centre, Edinburgh, Aberdeen, Glasgow, Scotland, UK