[sirees]

Hi all,

I am looking to upgrade my 2yr old IN76 to either HD1 or HD100.
Both projectors seem to have a strong following & good reviews.
Is the HD100 worth £2.5k more than the HD1 or are we just splitting hairs?
Will I notice a big improvement over IN76 or just marginal, I don't have a good enough local dealer who can demo either, so I will be buying blind as I did with the IN76 and I have been happy with it.

Thanks in advance guys

[tryingtimes]

One thing I would say is phone and talk to someone before believing that the price of the HD100 is 5k. After talking to a few online stores recently, they can do better than that, but wont advertise it.

Whether you will notice a big improvement over the IN76, it's hard to say. Can you tell us a little about your environment, your viweing distance/screen width and whether anything in particular annoys you or any area where you feel your current projector is lacking?

[sirees]

I have a 5ft wide electric screen which is 2m91cm away from the projector lens which is ceiling mounted.
I have a typical living room, magnolia walls,white carpet etc... far from ideal as a cinema room.
I do have black out blinds, which I would normally pull down during the day (and night in the summer)
We use the projector to watch Sky (SD & HD), PS3 Blu Ray.
I have been very happy with the IN76 but I am now considering whether I could improve the picture with a better pj.

The one thing I would like to improve on is SD content from Sky, HD looks really nice.

[tryingtimes]

ok - well the reflective room makes one of the DLP advantages moot - ANSI Contrast Ratio. Your room will limit it to <150:1 anyway which all of good projectors can manage.
Black level is still worth persuing though as fade-to-black and starfields, etc will still look better with a high on/off cr projector.

Your small screen (5' wide is pretty small even for the UK) will raise black level quite a bit compard to the normal 7 and 8 foot screens, but at least you will get a nice punchy image.

If you view from under the projector, then the 2x screen width viewing distance means that for most, the difference between 720 and 1080 will be impossible to see.

Right what does that mean for projector choice - erm... erm...
I wouldn't upgrade for resolution reasons alone (likely to be invisible).
I would upgrade for an increase in on/off cr
I would upgrade to get better processing, including showing 24p material at smooth multiples (or buy a dedicated processor instead)
I wouldn't upgrade to get higher ANSI (wasted).

hmmmm - maybe your money might be better spent on a video processor - one which can trick SKY into sending out an interlaced SD signal.

So lets look at what a HD1 might give you...
A bit brighter - maybe too bright (you might need to add an ND filter)
Blacker blacks - (if you use an ND filter) - this is probably the biggest reason for upgrading.
Colour might be less accurate.
Processing is smoother for 24p material
You might end up with shading/uniformity/convergence issues.

Does that make sense? I'm not sure I'd upgrade if I was in your postion. Unless you just cannot live with your raised black level any longer.

[Avi]

Originally Posted by tryingtimes

I would upgrade to get better processing, including showing 24p material at smooth multiples (or buy a dedicated processor instead)

HD1/HD100 processing is very good with HD material but its SD performance isn't as good.

AVI

[sirees]

Originally Posted by Avi

HD1/HD100 processing is very good with HD material but its SD performance isn't as good.

AVI

worse than IN76 ?

[Avi]

Originally Posted by sirees

worse than IN76 ?

I don't know I was comparing to how well it handles HD film input as progressive or interlaced. You could always use other products that will deinterlace/upscale the SD source very well prior to the JVC to get around this.

AVI

[tryingtimes]

Hi Avi
Did anyone get to the bottom of why this is?
Is it that the display engine handles noise badly or do those who've added an external Video Processor say the issue is resolved?
You would think the Gennum would be pretty good with SD deinterlacing or is it more down to scaling?
To be honest I have become increasingly suspicious that my Crystalio II uses other aspects of it's architecture for some processing in addition to the Gennum - like maybe the sigma chip. A bit like the way Lumagen use the FPGA.
Saying that - your Marantz has the gennum in too and I haven't heard complaints.

[Avi]

Originally Posted by tryingtimes

Hi Avi
Did anyone get to the bottom of why this is?
Is it that the display engine handles noise badly or do those who've added an external Video Processor say the issue is resolved?
You would think the Gennum would be pretty good with SD deinterlacing or is it more down to scaling?
To be honest I have become increasingly suspicious that my Crystalio II uses other aspects of it's architecture for some processing in addition to the Gennum - like maybe the sigma chip. A bit like the way Lumagen use the FPGA.
Saying that - your Marantz has the gennum in too and I haven't heard complaints.

I think part of the issue is that different companies implement the VXP in different ways and utilise different support chips for certain processes as you point out. Also some claim they use a "custom" version of the chip but I've no idea what this means in reality.

I'm not sure what aspect of the VXP JVC employ with different input signals. But I do suspect not all the work is done by the VXP and some is handled by other processing chips. I know I was surpised at how poor (relatively) the image appeared fed a 480i/576i source compared to the same upscaled by a half decent DVD player.

AVI

[tryingtimes]

Right - so at least it's not inherent to the display tech - it can be worked around by doing the SD deinterlacing elsewhere.
In the case of the OP and SKY HD - am I right in thinking that SKY is already progressive when it's output on HDMI into a projector, in which case this particular issue wouldn't effect it (nor improve what the OP is seeing with the IN76).

So the answer for DVD is to do SD DVD deinterlacing on a good upscaling DVD player (like the Oppo DV-981HD for example).

Of course the OP is using the PS3 so that could output 1080p for all content and avoid the issue too.

[Avi]

Originally Posted by tryingtimes

Of course the OP is using the PS3 so that could output 1080p for all content and avoid the issue too.

The PS3 set to upscale DVD to 1080 looked better to eyes than 576p to the PJ from the same. So I suspect there may be some other processing issues (jaggies etc) not just deinterlacing.

AVI

[tryingtimes]

I'm so glad I have an external VP!
Hopefully in the coming year it will be a time of consolidation, where things like this are ironed out

[sirees]

I take it, I would be wasting my money on upgrading to HD1 or HD100?
Should I invest in a scaler/video processor, which one should I be looking at?

Cheers in advance.

[tryingtimes]

I guess it would depend on how important black level is to you.
If you really really like fade-to-black, then you may find the upgrade worth it. But for me, I'd hang on a while.
Again - with a video processor, it would depend on what annoys you about the current image. We've discussed SKY SD from an HD box and that can be improved with either the Lumagen Radiance or DVDO VP50. I don't know about EDID on the Calibre Vantage HD2, but it would be worth researching.
What you need is an editable EDID. Or the ability to recontruct an interlaced image after it's already been interlaced (DVDOs PReP feature).
All of these processors (and others like my Crystalio II) will offer other pq improvements too like colour and greyscale calibration, crisper scaling, 3:2 pulldown on SD and HD material, odd cadence detection, source switching, audio delay, etc, etc So it's a big topic to research.