[jsa1972]

Hi, After reading the reviews on this site and the current Dixons offer I am now the proud owner of an HD65

Now the trouble is that I've never owned or had any real experience with PJ's and as I'm currently in the process of creating a HC I am looking for a bit of guidance......

Is it worth buying an upscaling DVD player? Does it make that much difference? I can't afford to go blu-ray just yet
and besides I've got over 500 DVD's to go at in SD format.

If upscaling is worth doing can anyone recommend a reasonably priced player that's compatible with my PJ?

Thanks, jamie.

[KpjComp]

Originally Posted by jsa1972

Hi, After reading the reviews on this site and the current Dixons offer I am now the proud owner of an HD65

Now the trouble is that I've never owned or had any real experience with PJ's and as I'm currently in the process of creating a HC I am looking for a bit of guidance......

Is it worth buying an upscaling DVD player? Does it make that much difference? I can't afford to go blu-ray just yet
and besides I've got over 500 DVD's to go at in SD format.

If upscaling is worth doing can anyone recommend a reasonably priced player that's compatible with my PJ?

Thanks, jamie.

Well the HD65 has built in upscaling, it's not the best but will certainly get you started. Also if you have a PS3 or XBox 360, both of these do a very good job at upscaling, that will be better than the HD65 built in one.

I'd say one of the best upscaling devices is a decent PC.

[jsa1972]

Thanks for that. I can't afford to shell out on a PS3 just yet (I've still got to get all the sound gear etc) and I don't really want to use a PC to do the job. I am ideally looking for a reasonably priced upscaling DVD player that will be better than the one inbuilt in the HD65. Also would upscaling like this make all that much difference?

[Avi]

Originally Posted by jsa1972

Thanks for that. I can't afford to shell out on a PS3 just yet (I've still got to get all the sound gear etc) and I don't really want to use a PC to do the job. I am ideally looking for a reasonably priced upscaling DVD player that will be better than the one inbuilt in the HD65. Also would upscaling like this make all that much difference?

Oppo produce some very good upscaling DVD players.

http://www.opposhop.com/en/category/2/oppo_dvd_player

Also it may be worth looking at deals on HD DVD players as I suspect these will have dropped in price and most models are very good as just an upscaling DVD player.

AVI

[A Legal Beagle]

Try the toshiba EP30 (£77) or the EP35.(139.99)

ep35:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B...pf_rd_i=468294

EP30:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Toshiba-HD-E...4294657&sr=1-1

Main difference is the onboard 5.1 decoder on the EP35 for true HD.

Ive just bought the EP35 and the upscaling is very good, have a look round the forums on this site you will find some useful info on them.

hope this helps

[sweevo]

Another vote for the Oppo 981HD DVD player here.

Bought it on the strength of the DVD Benchmark results (google it) and it's relative cost (ie much cheaper) to other players which were it's equal in terms of PQ.

Like yourself I decided to sit out the Bluray/HD-DVD battle and enjoy my large DVD collection all over again upscaled to my PJ.

[shogun]

Originally Posted by jsa1972

Hi, After reading the reviews on this site and the current Dixons offer I am now the proud owner of an HD65

Now the trouble is that I've never owned or had any real experience with PJ's and as I'm currently in the process of creating a HC I am looking for a bit of guidance......

Is it worth buying an upscaling DVD player? Does it make that much difference? I can't afford to go blu-ray just yet
and besides I've got over 500 DVD's to go at in SD format.

If upscaling is worth doing can anyone recommend a reasonably priced player that's compatible with my PJ?

Thanks, jamie.

Welcome to the HD65 members club.

If money is tight at the moment and your existing Dvd SD player has a component output < red,blue green > connection,then i would use this method to hook up to your HD65 to show a 576P picture for watching your SD movies.

I find SD over component with the HD65 gives a pretty good watchable picture, even tho it is not as detailed or sharp has a HD sourced signal.

Then when funds permit in the future, then maybe invest into the HD format world such as Blu Ray.

Another option instead of purchasing an upscaled DVD player would be to go out and buy either a new or second hand Toshiba EP30 HD DVD player which retail now at around £80 mark, due to that Toshiba have pulled the plug on their HD dvd technology.

The Toshiba EP30 can be used as a normal HDMI upscaled DVD player which gives good results against the sub £100 DVD upscaling players on the market whilst playing SD movies.

You could also buy or rent a few HD DVD Disc's in the short term to view the full glory of HD on your HD65 projector before the HD DVD backed film studios cease HD DVD format production of new realest film titles in the future.

[Colin151]

Tohshiba EP30 from Amazon or Play for £79.99 with 2 free HD-DVD's is a very good buy. The DVD upscaling is excellent, - much better than a PS3 or Xbox 360.

Even though HD-DVD format is dead it doesn't matter as you'd be getting this player very cheap to use it as a DVD upscaler. I bet the toshiba has a much better upscaler in it than 50-80 new DVD players that can upscaler. The EP 30 was £270 when it was originally released only about 3 months ago. Only slight negative of the EP30 is that the loading time can be a little slow, - but it is not too bad with DVDs, - slower with HD-DVDs.

Hope this helps.

[Colin151]

And to answer your question yes upscaling is well worth it for an existing DVD collection. If you had for example a Toshiba EP30, I would set the Toshiba on 720p upscaling then press the "Native" Button on your HD65 remote bypassing the internal HD65 scaler. Though you can experiment with settings.

Cheers,
Colin

[jsa1972]

Thanks for that. I've just found the Toshiba SD-370E for 32 quid on Ebuyer. The reviews I've read are good. What do you think of this one for starters?

[jsa1972]

Thanks for all of your advice. The EP30 on PLAY at the moment looks like a good deal although after £423 last night on the projector I don't want to push my luck with her indoors

I'll work on it....

[nwgarratt]

I find that using a HDMI player is worth it over component even if upscaling is not done in the player. I get a much shaper picture with HDMI.

[jsa1972]

Looking again at the SD-370E it upscales to 780p. As this is the native resolution of the HD65 would upscaling any further make any difference ? Sorry if that's a stupid question but as far as I understand just because a PJ might be compatible with a HD format it doesn't mean it will project at that resolution. is that right or am I getting my wires crossed?

I really would like the EP30 if it's gonna definitely make a difference but I don't want to spend double the money just for HD when I plan on getting BR in 6 months or so.

[jsa1972]

Figured on the savings I made on the HD65 I can justify buying the HD-EP30 so I've just bought it

Just got to tell her now!

Anyway the 2 free DVD's that come with add up to 40 quid so it hasn't cost me that much after all

[Colin151]

Really Sorry I missed you replies Jamie,
Haven't been able to get near a computer again until now!

Don't worry you won't go wrong with the EP30, - for that money it is an amazing buy and is a very good DVD upscaler. Try it on the 720P setting with the HD65 on native. This I think in theory I think should be better as the EP30 will be doing the upscaling. I am pretty sure the if you press native on the HD65 it will disable its internal scaler and give 1:1 pixel mapping.

However you can try other settings as the HD65 will take a 1080p and 1080i signal. You could try 1080p (will be 50Hz with a region 2 DVD and 60Hz with a Reigon 1), - the HD65 will then use its scaler to convert the res back down to 720 for suitable size for its pixel resolution. This in theory I think is worse than the other method as you are using two scalers instead of one but I have noticed that when you send a 1080 signal there is more info so it can be better. Just try both and see which you prefer.

Let me know how you get on,
All the best,
Colin

[jsa1972]

Cheers for that Colin. It's going to be a month or two before I get setup as I'm in the process of creating a cinema room. I've got quite a bit of work to do but it should be worth it

Hoping to post some pics of my progress....

Thanks again.

[nwgarratt]

You have made a good choice. Even if you didn't use it for HD DVD, it is still a excellent SD DVD player.

[mk1911]

Thanks for the thread jsa1972 (and to everyone that responded), I was going to write almost the same thing and then I saw this. I'm using my hd65 with a philips hts3154 at the moment.

I have a couple of follow-up questions for anyone kind enough to respond:

1) Am I correct to understand that the ep30 does not play DivX?
2) Are there any all-in-one systems that do a decent job in upscaling?

Thanks.

[Colin151]

Hi Jamie,
Again sorry I didn't get to a computer for a few days! Yesterday I trekked across the country to get an Optoma H79 DLP projector, - amazing, much better than the HD65 (and a lot quieter fan wise too) though it should be as it cost about £4000 when it was new! I paid £800 with a screen so it a very good deal. Am very happy. The DLP pic is much better than LCD, - and now I have a nice quiet DLP so all is good.

Have been thinking about my advice on your upscaling with your EP30 and HD65. If you are playing HD-DVD's (you will get 2 free with the EP30 I think) you really should set the EP30 to output a 1080P signal and set 24fps to "on" or "forced" (should be in the EP30 menu somewhere). This is becuase the clever little HD65 can take a 1080p signal (and convert it to its 720 resolution) with 24Hz and then actually display it at 24 Hz too instead of converting to 60 Hz which many Tv's and PJ's do which gives nasty judder. You can check it is working properly when playing as one of the menus in the HD65's on screen display will tell you the screen mode that the PJ is displaying, - it should say 1080p 24Hz if you have it right.

So it might jsut be easier to leave the EP30 on 1080p resolution all the time as if you put it on 720p and play an HD-DVD the EP30 will convert the 24fps blu-ray signal to 60Hz before outputting to the HD65 and you will get a 720p 60Hz pic displayed on the HD65 that will not be anything like as smooth as the other method.
So make sure you check this out, - compare the two options, - with HD-DVD in particular the former 1080P 24Hz setting will be miles better. If you set the EP30 to 1080p it will output DVD's as 50 Hz or 60Hz depending on region, - the HD65 will then have to downscale the pic to fit but you should get a very good pic. So all in all I think you should really have the EP30 set on 1080p all the time really rather than 720p.

Hope this helps,
Let me know how you get on,
Cheers,
Colin

[Colin151]

Hi Mk1911,
Yes I'm afraid the EP30 will not play the DIVX AVI format.

Though it is less convenient there are ways around this. For example what I do when I want to watch a DIVX movie on a DVD player is convert the DIVX AVI files to DVD files on a computer first and burn them onto DVDR disc and play as a DVD.

I use a PC program called ConvertXtoDVD (made by VSO), - it is very good, - I takes roughly an hour to convert a DIVX on my computer. though might be faster on a newer comptuer. There is no loss in quality. It also puts chapters in every five mins. The only disadvantage of this is the added conversion time as DVDR's and as cheap if not cheaper than CDR's now.

As for all in one, I don't know about that, but maybe post a thread up asking.

Cheers,
Colin

[xs2man]

The other alternative is to play your divx files off a memory stick through either a Xbox360 or a PS3. This works fine for me, and doesn't require taking the time to transcode the DVD, or the whole 15p that blank DVD might cost you

[Colin151]

Hey xs2man,
Thats really good info, - I'm gonna do that with my PS3!!
I suppose the transcode/burn to DVD method is good in some ways as you then have a DVDR disc that will play in most DVD players (depending on + or -), but if you have a PS3 or an Xbox360 your idea sounds like a wicked easy solution to DIVX playback!!
Cheers,
Colin

Originally Posted by xs2man

The other alternative is to play your divx files off a memory stick through either a Xbox360 or a PS3. This works fine for me, and doesn't require taking the time to transcode the DVD, or the whole 15p that blank DVD might cost you

[jsa1972]

Sorry to change the subject slightly but I'm looking to complete my setup with the sound system. Again I am restricted on budget but I've been lookint at the Yamaha RXV361 complete with a set of Tannoy FX5.1 speakers. I know this is a budget setup and realise I won't get outstanding sound quality but will it be accpetable? The room size is approx. 17'x 15'.

Would I have any problems with this setup?

Thanks again, Jamie.

[Colin151]

Hi Jamie,
Well you have quite a large room for that sound system so it might run out of steam if you plan to watch you movies at a reasonably good volume. This is because all those artificial low frequencies that are added to movie soundtracks really suck up power. That subwoofer might struggle handling the LFE channel.

I assume you might (as well as price constraint reasons) be going for a sub/sat speaker system becuase of space/the wife?!

I am not a fan really of any sub sat speaker systems, - the KEF egg ones are not bad though but quite pricey. The reason I don't like them much is the crossover frequency from satellite speakers to sub HAS to be quite high as the sats are very small and have a limited bandwidth anyway. To my ears this gives the bass a thumpy boomy quality with leaking lower midrange. I REALLY hate it when you can hear a boomy hollow sound on male vocals, - you get this becuase of the lower midrange leaklage to sub. I have heard some of the AE sub/sat before as well, - again they are not bad but still a bit boomy. I far prefer full range speakers and bigger subs with a lower crossover frequency, - like REL subs. Many people with projectors set up go sort of half way between this and have medium to fullish size type standmount speakers and decent subs. This is a good approach and can normally keep the wife happy as although the speakers are bigger than in a sub/Sat system they are not monster floorstanders like my Proac Response 3.5s!!

Having said all that that I think it will be fine for starters if that's all you have to spend, - you can sell it all later and upgrade if you want. It depends also on what you are used to and where you are coming from, - if you just used a TV's sound system before it will be a big upgrade, for example!

Cheers and hope this helps,
Colin

[jsa1972]

Thanks again Colin.I'm lucky enough to have a dedicated building detached from the main house were I say what goes so the issue isn't space/wife

As I'm just starting out I don't want to go overboard with budget as I intend to upgrade in future. I am looking for a sound system inkeeping with the PJ/DVD player I have just bought and I don't mind massive floor standing speakers etc or decent 2nd hand gear.

Loving the advice, keep it coming.....

Cheers, Jamie.

[xs2man]

Well, I think this may be better continued in the AV section, lol.

However, I found the new Onkyo range of Amps very nice, and I liked the sound I got from my old Wharfedale speakers, so I went for a new set of them aswell.

TBH I had originally planeed a budget of 500 quid for the set-up, but that was stretched, then stretched a little more, then I bought an Onkyo 705 for 500 quid

Then the speakers on top of that. And they are fantastic (Wharfedale Diamond 9.0 with sw150 sub). Great for the money, but I'm already wanting to upgrade them only 4 months later, lol. But they do make a cracking starter set-up. And I would only be upgrading them for a really nice set of, I dunno, B&W 600 series With floorstanders for the fromt and bookshelfs at the rear, but then, thats another grand set-up (at least + sub).

I would, if I were you, try to get the Amp your gonna want to keep just now, and compromise on the speakers to start. That way, you at least have something you can keep And I read somewhere, Ideally you'll wanna spend at least doubl;e on the speakers than you would the amp. But then, thats just a guide.

Good luck mate....

[Colin151]

Cheers Jamie,
Glad to help you out. To tell the truth know a lot more about the sound side of Home cinema than the Pic side, - I have had a Home Cinema system (sound wise) since 1993, that's when I bought my first AV receiver and have been through many upgrades and changes since then obviously. I had never considered a projector until recently as the prices WERE SO HIGH!, - now all that has changed. I remember in about 1999 you had to spend about £6000-8000+ to get an OK projector, - ironic that it wouldn't have even been HD ready and woudn't have been as good as the HD65!!!

As for the speakers you could go for the sub sat and Yamaha amp but if space if not an issue you really should be looking at secondhand separates, - what you can get for the now money is amazing when you look around. Some of my recent buys for example in the past year have been (have done a lot of changes): -

1. Denon 3802 AV receiver, - (was £850 in 2002.) Paid £100 on Ebay last August. TOTAL TOTAL bargain, -I suggest get something like this anyway over the new cheap Yamaha you were considering. Look on Ebay etc, - Denon 2802, 2803, 3801, 3802, 3803, 3805. Any of these are amazing and will be a million times better than that new Yamaha, - especially in the power amp section. Some of the older Yamahas are good too, - there are many models. Though I think the Denons are better overall for the secondhand money. There are loads of them all the time on Ebay or on the classfied ads on the forums. You can then upgrade to a HDMI equipped new model with High def sound decoding at a later date if you wish. Though you would have to spend a fair bit to better one of the older Denons.

2. Proac Studio 125 front pair of speakers. (Cost £1000 new in 2001.) Paid £350 from Hififorsale.com classified ads. Amazing bargain, - you don't even need a sub with these speakers in most rooms, - incredible bass response for Home cinema. You just route the LFE output of your receiver to go to the main channel instead of a subwoofer. These speakers are rear ported though and MUST be placed away from walls or corners otherwise they will boom.

3. Proac Response CC1 centre channel. Cost £600 new. Paid £210. Great refined centre speaker. I have bought a spare one too.

4. Proac Response 3.5 front Loudspeakers. Cost £4250 new originally in 1997. I paid £1000 from Ebay. They are monsters but amazing speakers. Massive transparent soundstage. Surprisingly the bass is not as big as the much smaller Studio 125's but with my twin subs this does not matter. Overkill for most people really and these are starting to get heavy, - 40Kg's a box (and they are actually some of the smaller floorstanding speakers Proac make)! They are front ported and less sensitive on placement. I use mine quite close to the rear walls and they still sound great.

5. Mission 77DS surround rear speakers. (originally cost £200 new). Paid £35 on Ebay and that was a bit of a bargain. They normally go for £50-60

6. REL Storm upgraded subwoofer. Cost £925 new in 1997. Paid £230 from Ebay. Total bargain an amazing sub for the money and not too big to manouvere for one person. Just manageable.

7. REL strata II subwoofer. Cost £550 new in 1998. Paid £90 from Hififorsale classifieds. Really good sub for the money. Similar to the Storm but a tad looser in quality. Using a Strata and a Storm together is a good mix, - that's what I am doing new, - it blends realy well.

8. REL Storm Subwoofer, (Cost £700 in 1997). Paid £150 from Ebay. Another storm this time not an upgraded one. Excellent sub for that money. (Have a look for rel subs on Ebay. Any of these models are good: Strata, Strata II, Strata III, Strata 5, Storm, Storm upgraded driver version, Storm III, Storm 5, Q50, Q100E, Q150E, Q200E, Q201, Q400E, Quake, Stampede. And (bigger ones not for everyone,) Stadium II, Stadium III, Stentor, Stentor II, Stentor III. The Studios are too big dor most people!. They are other good sub brands, - M&K, SVS, BK, B&W etc but I like REL and have stuck to them, - especially with so many going cheap secondhand.

6. Lexicon MC1 surround sound processor. (cost £5500 in 2000!!!) Paid £450 from Hififorsale.com. Real bargain. A truly expensive piece of kit. No power amplification on board but you can route through the power amps of an AV amp like the Denon. The MC1 has a very different sound to the Denon. It is all about sparkling fine detail, precision and sound placement/accuracy whereas the Denon sounds much more ballsy with a much bigger bass too for some reason. It is good to have too really different sounding processors, but I believe it or not prefer the Denon amp overall. (another guy on this forum had both too and prefered the Denon like me!!!) The Denon 3802 is amazing for the money I paid and has a nice full, rich sound. No not as detailed as the Lexicon but better balanced overall The Lexicon is a bit light sounding to my ears.

I have also bought and sold a few separate power amps here here and there to add power for the main channels (the 3.5s at the moment). NAD 216, NAD208 (have one now it is FANTASTIC, - huge power reserves!!). Parasound 1205 (was dissapointed).

So there you have it. I woudn't recommend Proac speakers to everyone as they can be a bit hard to drive and are a bit amp fussy. B&W speakers are the brand I would recommend to people starting off like yourself. They sound really good and are very amp friendly, - very efficient and easy to drive. I would start with buiding a system around the 600 series which is incredible value for money. It is good to buy speakers of the same brand for AV as they will have similar tonal and phase charateristics so sound effects will sound consistent in tone when panning around the room.

I would give the 600 series 1 speakers a miss as they are quite old now. The series 2 ones are pretty good but you should really be looking at the series 3 speakers (series 4 are the current ones). The 600 series 3 series of speakers ran for many years there are tons of them on the used market.

If (for example you were to build a system around the series 3 speakers there are many configs.
These are some of the models in the series 3 range: -

DM600 S3 Brilliant little speaker you'll need a pair for rear channel duties. Around £100 secondhand but something like the mission 77ds would also be OK for rear channel and are cheaper.

DM601 S3 Great standmount speaker. You could use these for the front channels. Price not sure I would imagine around £100

DM602 S3 Medium Standmount speaker. Could use for the front channels. Very popular. Price not sure maybe around £150

DM602.5 S3 Small floorstander. Could use for the front channels. Pretty nice. Not sure on price.

DM603 S3. medium floorstanders. Could use for the front channels. Hugely popular and for good reason. Very loud volume capability, easy to drive and huge bass. Around £200-250 or so secondhand. One consideration is you MUST use them away from walls or corners other wise they WILL boom and sound heavy and awful. In those circumstance you would be much better of with something like the DM601's.

LCR60 centre channel. Amazing for the money I had one of these recently. Around £70-1000 secondhand. this is the centre I recommend.

LCR600 centre channel. Bigger. Overkill really unless you have a big room.

So if you base a system around say the 603 S3
e.g. DM603 S3 fronts, LCR60 centre, DM600 Rears. You might not need a subwoofer. With smaller front speakers you probably would. I would chose an REL but it is up to you.

So there you have it. If you were really lucky and could pick up some massive bargains you could have an out of this world surround sound system made up of separates for £500 or so, - which is not that much more than you wanted to spend. Or for example if you can borrow or have some old speakers you could use as rear channels for exmaple or cut some other corners you could do it cheaper and buy some rears later.

Please let me know if you need any help or advice when buying stuff. If you live near London you are also very welcome to have a listen to my set up.

All the best,
Colin

[xs2man]

Fantastic mate. Thats gonna help me with my choices for the next round of upgrades. Cheers

[jsa1972]

WOW! that's definitely something to be aiming for. I really appreciate the time and effort you've gone to with that reply

Obviously you know your onions when it comes to sound setups and you've convinced me not to go for the cheap amp/speaker road!

I will be looking out for some of the kit you have mentioned and build up over time (I've got speakers from my current hifi that I can use for now) For starters I will be looking for a good 2nd hand amp and I will take you up on that offer of advice along the way

As much as I'd like to hear your setup unfortunatley I don't live anywhere near London ( North Lincs) but your system must sound awesome!

Thanks again

To be continued......

[Colin151]

Cheers Jamie/Xs2man,

Yes I would say start off with a decent secondhand AV amp/receiver as you will get far more for your money secondhand compared to a cheap new model. New models are bought out every year so they devalue a lot. You can get some real bargains secondhand. Amps like the Denons I mentioned would be my bet. Amps like this that were originally £600-900 like this will have far better power amplifier sections than a new cheaper amp, - with much more heavy duty power supply and able to supply a lot more current and grunt to the speakers. You will see this is you look at the weight of these amps compared to cheap amps, - they are a fair bit heavier due to the bigger power supply. You can easily get one of those amps for under £150 on Ebay and maybe a fair bit less.

I would also kind of agree with what xs2men says in that it might be more simple to compromise on the speakers for simplicitys sake for the time being, - then when you want to upgrade to used bigger separate speakers you would already have an appropriate AV amp that was up to the task. Something like a used Denon 3802 or similar would easily drive a set of B&W600 Series 3 speakers to fine sound levels in a room of your size. Also it might not be possible to get all the speakers in a set you want secondhand at the same time, - for example you might find some used B&W DM603 S3 and some DM600 S3's for front and rear respectively and then not be able to find an used LCR60 S3 centre for a while (and that would be a bit of a problem!). So it might pay to have a sub/sat system already to fall back on. Have a look around and you might even find a nice deal on a sub/sat system secondhand, - maybe a used KEF 2005 or 1005 sub/sat package or something similar. Having said that, that Tannoy package looks like quite good value considering it cost around £400 new. However I normally find with Richers sounds they never have good deals in stock or they have already sold out!

Anyway let me know how you get on and if you need any advice I'll be very happy to help. You will find a suitable secondhand AV amp more easily than secondhand speakers so that's what I would definitely look for first. Or if you want, let me know when you are looking to buy and I can have a look around for you and see what is out there in the used market.

The choice of amp is also somewhat determined by how many sepakers you were looking to use as older amps can only drive 5 and most later ones 6 or 7. Were you looking to do a 5.1 set up or a 7.1 (5.1 has one set of rear speakers, whereas 7.1 has a pair of side speakers and rear speakers).

Let me know if you were looking for 5.1 or 7.1 and I can draw you up a more thorough list of used amps you could buy.

Cheers and all the best,
Colin