Sigh

I bought a Sapphire radeon 9000 pro all-in-wonder.

it has a DVI-i port on the back and no VGA port.

I linked it up to the HS-10 and off I went.

HS-10 came up fine with the default windows display drivers (640 * 480 and 16 colours)

I installed the ATI drivers.

The screen immediately went blue (no signal).

On reboot, the HS10 shows the boot sequence up to the point where it shows the windows 2000 logo and the little bar thing that gets longer. However, at the point where the logon prompt would normally appear, the screen does blue (no signal) again and that's it!

If I perform the same sequence with a VGA monitor plugged into the DVI port I can see the logon prompt fine.

I can't hot swap cables from DVI to VGA and back because it seems like the card only enables one or the other at boot up if you see what I mean.

Question 1:
Anyone seen anything like this before?
Should I take it back and try and get one that supports multiple monitors?

When I installed the software for the very very first time I used the VGA monitor. Could this be the problem? Is the VGA monitor always going to be 'primary' now? I did try deinstalling (from the VGA) and re-installing the drivers from the HS10 display and as soon as the install sequence finished the display went blue.

I also tried powerstrip custom settings and that showed a picture on my monitor but nothing on the HS10..

Does the card in fact support 2 monitors and I need an adapter? I didn't get an adapter with it - I got a VGA-DVI adapter and that's it. I'm not sure from the documents (because there aren't any) whether this approach will work or no.

I tried the cable with my GF4 at 640 * 480 and 1024*768 and it worked fine. So I don't think it's the cable.

I'm well **** off now because I've spent 5 hours on this and I'm currently back with my Geforce 4 now with the radeon back in the box... Any ideas?

[JohnS]

John,

you need to use the ATI control panel to enable dual monitor support and clone picture to both monitors, its in the display tab of advanced settings,

The standard windows monitor driver works fine, you do need to uncheck the box that says "hide resolurions that this monitor cannot support".

Have you got powerstrip?

Hi John

OK I've put the Sapphire Radeon 9000 all-in-wonder back in there.

I've looked under the display properties/settings
and there are two blue monitors there numbered 1 and 2 side by side. The '2' one is surrounded by a greyed out line and if i click on the identify button, I get '1' on my VGA monitor that is currently running out of the DVI-i socket on the back via the adapter.
So far so good.

But as far as I can see, there is no way of attaching 2 monitors at the same time to this card.

If I then click on 'advanced' with the focus on monitor '1' - the VGA one - I get another panel with 12 tabs, 7 of which have the ATI logo on them. None of these tabs mention anything about cloning the display.

If I click on 'advanced' with the focus on monitor '2' - which is obviously not connected because I can't connect both VGA and DVI at the same time - then I only get a few properties.

A few questions:

Do you have two monitors connected to your card?
Do you have a different radeon card to me? (ie - one which provides two output sockets)

Like I said - it boots up fine whenever I have the VGA monitor on there - but if I were to unplug the VGA now and plug in the DVI I would get nothing.

And if I try booting up with the DVI plugged in from the word 'go' then it works until the point where the logon prompt should appear - at which point the display cuts out.

Is this something simple like the computer is currently under the impression that the VGA = primary display and the DVI = secondary?

The strange thing is that If I try to enable the secondary one it won't let me - probably because it's not connected. And if I connect the HS10 to DVI I can't enable it because I can't see the screen...!

Ideas?

[JohnS]

I have both 9000 and 9500 cards which are both dual output with a dvi socket and a vga socket, its not an all in wonder though.

Yes I have my pj connected to the dvi @ 1368*768 and a tft to the vga. I use hot keys in the contol panel/advanced/display tab to junp between enabling both or either one with either one as the primary monitor, the clone button is a square inset angled to another square.

It may be different with the AIW as I've not seen one but I dont suppose its very different. Your in the right area though, dont forget the HS10 needs the dvi input to be set to computer not rgb or you wont get a picture anyway.

[Pulsar]

John_N,

I had similar problems with my Radeon. I think that you are having problems because the AIW cards have
only 1 monitor output, unlike the standard 9000's. What you should do is connect your monitor up, set the custom resolution in powerstrip and enable this. Once this seems ok on your monitor (It looks well weird on mine) shutdown the computer, plug in the projector and start the computer up. You should now have your deskton projected in its native resolution through the HS10. It is a bit of a fiddle to get right, but you get the hang of it you will be fine. If you have any other questions then post on here and I will try and help.

Cheers

Rob

Hi

Thanks I've finally managed to get further...

BUT WHAT A HASSLE.

This is what I did:

1. Started the computer with VGA monitor connected and TV connected so S-video output.

2. Goto control panel and enable S-video output (clone) so that I can see the desktop on the TV.

3. Close the control panel. Disconnect the VGa monitor.

4. Connect the HS10. Open the control panel (using the display on the TV now).

5. Enable the 'flat panel' display. Specify this as master. The HS10 springs into life.

6. The most important step - DISABLE the VGA display. If this isn't done then when the machine is rebooted, it tries to use VGA rather than DVI for some reason. I did this a few times before I worked this out.

Right. At this stage I finally have the 1024*768 image on the HS10 and I'm able to start and restart the machine without losing the image. SO It's not a hardware problem - just a nightmare to do.

As you say, the AIW card has one monitor output only and it's just as well that I happened to have a spare TV that can show S-video to use.

What a nightmare.

I'm now going to use the powerstrip settings for the custom resoultion. The pixel clock I get is different to the one over at AVS though - just checking this forum...

[JohnS]

HI John,

Getting there then

I've got two different sets of settings

1368x768=1368,72,136,208,768,1,3,21,79223,3094

1368x768=1368,88,144,232,768,1,3,30,82280,7

and they both seem to display pixel perfect. The second set seem to work better with a long dvi cable though. The pixel clock does seem to come out slighlty different sometimes, I expect due to slight differences in the decimal figures.

Got it working in widescreen...

Hi John
Thanks for the info. I think I'm maybe looking at a different part of powerstrip or something because the figures that you give don't seem to relate to the part where I'm entering them.

I used the following settings in "Add custom Resolution":
Pixels 1360 768
Refresh Rate 45 57
Front Porch 72 1
Back Porch 208 21
Aspect Ratio Any

This works and I have a widescreen display.
I am using a 10m long DVI cable at the moment and the only thing I've noticed is that if I stick my nose next the screen and look at the pixels I can see a kind of refresh pattern passing over them. I think that this is normal because I seem to get it if I look at even an HS10 generated menu on any signal setting - when you're close enough to stare at a group of pixels.

Apart from that it seems to be working fine now.
Thank goodness for that.
I shall cancel the return of the card.

Well cancel that last part about not returning it... The ALL IN WONDER is outta here.

After getting it all working happily and even succesfully restarting twice and watching a movie in widescreen, I thought all my troubles were over.

Er no. It only continued to work as long the TV was plugged into the S video port. I tried for several hours to get it to work with JUST the HS10 plugged into the DVI-i port and nothing else. No joy.

In addition the TV-on-demand crashes windows 2K with a blue screen in an intermittent fashion so is basically useless. And the picture quality is pretty rubbish as well.

I've spent ALL DAY with this now. So I've disconnected it and I'm back with my old faithful Geforce 4 which for all it's faults at least gives me a consistent picture even if it is only 1024*768

Oh and I'm not buying another Sapphire product either - just in case. Perhaps I would be better off sticking with a known brand like Hercules?

It's going back and basically I need a recommendation for a card that's going to be stable with good drivers. I need a radeon card suitable for the HS10 that has VGA and DVI ports (1 of each) and a proven record of booting up with DVI as primary and VGA as secondary (and not complaining even if the VGA monitor isn't turned on)... I basically have set aside a room for this machine which is going to be linked full-time to the projector via DVI. It has a radio keyboard/mouse and will have a VGA monitor connected but not turned on just in case of emergencies..

Recommendations would be appreciated..

Cheers
John

[JohnS]

Hi John,

Doesn't sound like your having much fun.

Dont be put off Saphire, my old 9000 128 mb non pro (so fanless)was fine. I now have the 9000 in my desktop and a 9500 128 mb non pro (with software hack that turns it into a 9700)in the HTPC.

Not a lot to pick between the 2, the 9500 is slighlty better but not much but the picture via dvi is STUNNING . The stock fan on the 9500 was damn noisy though so its been replaced with a Zaman heatpipe cooler. It runs loads hotter though and has increased the in case temps by about 6C ( worth thinking about if you eventually go in the living room HTPC like you've talked about.)

For tv veiwing, why not scale Sky ucing a capture card like the Xcapture and Dscaler or buy one of the new free to air cards like the neubula (sp?)

Might be interested in a partex swap with the 9000 and your GF4 if you fancy a 9000. Not fussed either way if your not bothered though.

Hi John
Thanks for the offer. I seriously thought about it until I saw what the new creative GF4 ti4800 is selling for compared to what I paid for it 8 months ago! I think I had better just hang onto it.

I've basically binned the 'in the same room' HTPC idea as being a pain and hence set aside the room above the TV room to house the HTPC. After a lot of hassle moving furniture around today you will imagine I was not best pleased when it stopped working!

I'm just digging around doing some research.

I did get the SPDIF output from the All-in-wonder to play the digital sound from my DVD which I was pleased with. However, it didn't play normal sounds (like from TV) through SPDIF.

Asusming that I use a separate sound card like the Philips Sonic Edge 5.1 - do you think I can arrange for all my system sound to come through SPDIF?

Cheers
J

PS - what was that about TV capture etc?

One of the reasons I liked the idea of the AIW was that I could use the PC to watch TV on the HS10 and pause it / record it hence not needing a VCR anymore.

If I don't go for the AIW anymore that leaves me with a functionality gap...

I don't have sky installed (I cancelled it 4 days before they were due because I suddenly realised I could rent a lot of DVDS for the best part of £40/month

I've not heard of the "Nebula" or "Neubula" or whatever - is that some kind of a sky receiver for the PC?

[JohnS]

Haven't used that card myself, I'm using onboard sound on my Asus mobo and that plays everything system, music, dd and dts without any worries but I think it depends on the card. Cmedia chipset cards are okay in this respect because I owned a PCI one before I went this way and my mobo uses that chipset, but I sold the card to a member here.

He could get DD and DTS okay, but to get music, he had to change the settings in the control panel on his old card, way too much hassle.

Keep going with the HTPC as the results are really worth it when you've got through the pain barrior, it makes the HS10 look really ordinary when fed anything but.

[rooster]

So you guys reckon the 9500 is the card to have? You can get it for £105 and as mentioned change it to a 9700. My HT room is almost complete (Just the dreaded painting and carpet fitting to do) Will be going down HTPC route to.

Will be going down HTPC route so may need some helpers soon
as its all new to me.

Hi

I would imagine that the 9500 is a better card for gaming being a quicker card.

I've decided to try another Radeon 9000 pro card.

This time it's going to be a

Gigabyte Radeon 9000 pro 128Mb DVI and TV out.

I've looked at the back panel and it has VGA (D-sub) , DVI and an S-video connector.

Surely with this combination of connectors I should be able to get to a stage where I can watch movies without hassle on the HS10 via the HTPC... We shall see...

I've also bought a Philips Sonic Edge 5.1 card off Ebay which is supposed to be coming imminently.

I read the review of the Nebula Electronics Digi-TV card on their web site. It looks like it can receive all the free-to-air digital channels. Has anyone actually tried it out - I wonder what the picture quality is like?

I've also fitted my CC40R filter and I'm waiting for my screen to arrive. So once it's all put together and calibrated I should be finished for the time being..

Apart from the hush box project that is....

Cheers
J