Online re4view says Panasonic AE1000 has blacks comparable to a Darkchip3 DLP..True?

[Oakleyspatz]

On a review for the Panasonic PT-AE1000 here: http://www.projectorreviews.com/pana...000U/index.asp
It states that the black level and contrast ratio are comparable to a Darkchip 3 DLP when using the iris function.
This seems like a tall order for an LCD projector, but if true, seems like the bargain of the century!
Can any owners of this model comment on black levels especially if you have previously owned a DLP model.

Cheers!

[KelvinS1965]

I don't think I have tried a DLP with Darkchip3, but I doubt my AE1000's blacks are as good, judging by from what I remember even of an IN76 (Darkchip2 ?) demo I had last year. I can clearly see the 'black' bars on my screen, so I zoom in to push them off the top and bottom (my screen is set for a 2.35:1 drop), but then I can still see the bar shining on my wall below the screen. I would strongly suggest having a demo in a properly setup room if you can. I had little choice as I suffer headaches and RBE, so DLP was out for me ( I would have bought the IN76 last year otherwise). I managed to get the AE1000 for under £2K, but it was still a bit of a step up from the Hitachi xx300 or Panny AX100 that I had nearly settled on.

I have engaged the auto iris and I am awaiting on a pair of Hoya Neutral Density filters (ND2 and ND4) to arrive after testing with a cheap Cokin ND2 showed that the black level could be brought down to a level I am happier with. The Cokin filter caused a drop in ANSI contrast due to some reflection problem caused by the cheap filter that hopefully the Hoya will solve (plus a bit of redecorating with darker wall colours).

There is also some debate on the AVSForum as to whether the econ mode for the lamp does anything and my reply from Panasonic regarding this was non comittal.

I would like to point out that my black level problems may be exaggerated by my light coloured walls/sofas and no curtain on the patio door, plus I wrongly ordered a screen with a gain of 1.8 based on Projector Central's calculator. In hindsight I would have got a 1:1 gain high contrast screen...but that's another story.

As ever, go see with your own eyes and deceide if you are happy with the black levels. FWIW the general picture quality otherwise blows me away even from Freeview via my HPTC and DVDs look really good too. The bit of BBC HD stuff I have looks as fantastic as my ancient graphics card will allow (still photos look amazing too).

[Gary Lightfoot]

I saw a Sony HS60 in my dedicated light controlled room, and unlike some other LCDs with an iris, this model (just like the SXRD Sonys) had a consistent black level through out it's range which never appeared to 'go grey' in mid to brighter scenes. Out of the box its on/off was around 8500:1 and when partially calibrated to D65 was around 6500:1 (had a dE of around 10 in places, but lower in others - more time needed to play with it but we were watching movies most of the time). It went blacker than my Optoma H78 (DC2) which measured around 2700:1 at the time, as my eyes took longer to adapt when going from a bright calibration test image to the black needle pulse test image. We didn't equalise the white levels and I don't remember measuring the lumens or foot lamberts, but on the same 8ft wide scope screen the HS60 didn't look dim (it was on a newish lamp though). Not a particularly definitive observation but it was closer to cinema levels of reflectance rather than something considerably brighter.

It was the first LCD I'd seen that I thought was comparable to DLP with regard to blacks and would consider buying, so if the Panny has similar performance then I don't see why it can't have consistent black levels like a DLP.

Gary

[phillfyspoon]

The blacks my be blacker but put a bright menu up against that black and that black might not look as good as a dlp could do under the same condition.

[Oakleyspatz]

Originally Posted by phillfyspoon

The blacks my be blacker but put a bright menu up against that black and that black might not look as good as a dlp could do under the same condition.

Yeah I read that!

But I don't intend to watch a movie with the menu sat in the corner!!!

So that shouldn't be a problem.

[Gary Lightfoot]

Yes, ANSI/simultaneous contrast is still much better on DLPs, but until recently the grey blacks were the most noticable failing of LCDs (low native sequential contrast) and the good ones have improved that considerably (and some are still poor and implement their iris poorly but it makes the on/off numbers look good).

Even in a poor room with white walls and ceiling, the advantages of a good ANSI capable pj can be seen over a poor one using Phillfyspoons example (less 'flare' or 'halo' around the credits).

Gary

[phillfyspoon]

Originally Posted by Oakleyspatz

Yeah I read that!

But I don't intend to watch a movie with the menu sat in the corner!!!

So that shouldn't be a problem.

Hmmm but u do watch movies that have more then just black, something like a planet against space, or a lamp on in a dark room etc.

[Sunshinewelly]

i have to chip in here and say that the dynamic iris is basically undetacable in normal use. I watch a lot of sci-fi and have not once been aware of the dynamic iris. for example watching the initial scenes in star wars - the background is black and the stars are white. you do not see the iris working at all although it is doing its stuff behind the scenes.(ie turn it off and the scene is not as punchy) i came to the panny after having a number of dlp models and the blacks on the panny are better than any dlp model i had.

i watched batman begins on hidef last night and for certain parts of the film which are meant to be black the black level was indistinguishable from the black border around my screen, its that good

[KelvinS1965]

FWIW I found out how to get into the service menu:

'Option' menu, 'Input guide' then hold down the 'enter' button for 2-3 seconds.

This will show a menu with the following options, MY default values are shown in brackets, but I'd advise not adjusting them unless you know what you are doing (unfortunatley I don't so I left them alone ):

Auto Setup (Normal)
HDMI Hot Plug (ON)
525i SD (OFF)
HPLL (ON)
Self Check (shows iris fans and temps including input mode in use , ie 576p)
Flicker adjust: This shows, in order, a red background (Desk 132), then 'down arrow'; a blue background (Desk 126), 'down arrow' again; a green background (Desk 134). More 'down arrows' shows the same screens inverted with the same values but for example red (Ceiling 132) is displayed. Pressing the return button on the remote takes you back to the service menu.
Initialize....I'd guess this would put everything back to some factory default, but I certainly didn't want to risk messing up any settings, so I left that.

"Why?" you may ask did I search out how to get into this menu? Well I've been reading another post over on the AVS Forums about how a service menu tweak on the Sony Pearl could adjust the iris settings giving a brighter ( or darker picture). I was hoping something similar might have been in the AE1000 service menu too, as I would like to be able to have a slightly dimmer image for dark scenes, ie close the iris a little more. Maybe it is already fully closed for these scenes...but I'm an Engineer and I can't help tweaking things.

[KelvinS1965]

Update to the above Service Menu post:

There is a more detailed Menu:

With the PJ ON, using the remote only:

Press 'Power', select 'Cancel', 'Up', 'Down','Up', 'Down', 'Enter'.

Similar menu to above, but with a 'Fan Full' mode (which overides the standard menu setting for 'high altitute' I believe).
There is also a 525p setting (default 'OFF').

What I am interested in is the 'Self Check' menu which has much more detail than the above post version:

My PJ is one from Purely Gadgets (which may be an import from Hong Kong?). My Self Check shows the following (firmware?) versions:

MM: 1.04 F: 1.05 IM 1.02

I'd be interested in hearing from anyone with a 'genuine' UK model to see if their Self Check shows the same firmware as above.

As before, please don't adjust anything you don't understand.

[stasis]

Hi, I cannot make any comparisons with DLP projectors because the AE1000 is my first projector. I have to say I am hugely impressed with the projector, I find it is better all round than my 42" Panasonic plasma. Last night I watched the Fifth element (SD) and it was superb. The shots of space looked black with no hint of greyness or wash out. Where the projector truly stands out for me is its rich rendition of colour and surface textures of materials and clothing. I have only viewed SD material and have never viewed DLP, if this projector dissapoints any one I would be surprised, particularly at the price it can be had for.
regards stasis.

[phillfyspoon]

How welll does it handle noise on SD material? on my ae700 conected to my htpc there is a complete lack of any digital noise even on xvid material, just smooth as silk at viewing distance, even on areas were u exspect alot of digital noise like fast movement or solid walls, being xvid i would exspect just a hint of noise but it is steady as a rock, might be my htpc with fddshow but still.

[KelvinS1965]

I've used mine to watch a number of Freeview broadcasts (mainly 'Life On Mars') but only via my HTPC via DVI/HDMI. I have been amazed at how good it has been considering that sitting up close to my 32" LCD for similar programs looks ropy to say the least. There are two NR filters that can be turned 'ON'; MPEG NR and just 'NR'. I've tried various combinations, but TBH it looks good either way.

Put it this way, with it's treatment of Freeview and SD DVDs I don't feel a pressing need to commit to either HD disc format just yet and I have a 120" screen so I would get the most benefit compared to say a 42" Plasma.

[Sunshinewelly]

Originally Posted by phillfyspoon

How welll does it handle noise on SD material? on my ae700 conected to my htpc there is a complete lack of any digital noise even on xvid material, just smooth as silk at viewing distance, even on areas were u exspect alot of digital noise like fast movement or solid walls, being xvid i would exspect just a hint of noise but it is steady as a rock, might be my htpc with fddshow but still.

i think every review i have read says that out of the 1080p projectors on the market(including the JVC) the panasonic is the best at handling sd sources. i demoed both the epsonTW1000 and sony pearl and found the sd handling was much better on the panny. HD was more or less the same (i liked the picture of the panny better though).